I’ve locked the original The French thread, as it was getting too long. Please post new French-related comments in this forum.
Thanx!
Here’s picking up where we left off:
French Cowboy Unilateralism…
[quote=“Jonathan Rauch”]France’s intransigence on farm subsidies has been the single greatest impediment to progress at the World Trade Organization. France’s determination to set up an independent European military-planning center risks splitting NATO. France’s refusal to comply with the European Union’s fiscal rules may result in the rules’ collapse. France freely uses its E.U. clout to bully dissenting European countries. It does not shrink from calling on them to “shut up.” It did not shrink from announcing it would unilaterally veto any Security Council resolution authorizing military action against Iraq, “whatever the circumstances.” This is not exactly team playing…
[quote]Saddam Hussein refused to order a counterattack against U.S. troops when war erupted in March because he misjudged the initial ground thrust as a ruse and had been convinced earlier by Russian and French contacts that he could avoid or survive a land invasion, former Iraqi deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz has told interrogators, according to U.S. officials.
I read so much about the US weapons sales to Iraq during that one year 1982-3 but I have yet to see the outrage over the French administration and its extensive support and coddling of Saddam Hussein. What gives? Let’s not even begin to talk about the Russians but then the Russians never claimed or pretended to be allies of the United States.
The goodwill towards Americans is mingled with humour. An official went to see a Shia tribal leader, and as they sat down for the first of many cups of a hot sweet beverage, the lights in the majlis, the reception room, dimmed and went out. The American started to apologise, but was stopped short by his host:
The current French-American rift, born of differences over Iraq but rooted in deeper post-cold-war friction, is more complex than it may appear. Bitter feelings remain strong on both sides of the Atlantic, and there is a sense that something fundamental in the relationship has failed. In many areas, anti-Americanism - of the kind President George W. Bush will encounter in a visit to Britain next week - is at a high pitch.
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But a close look at French attitudes toward America suggests that repulsion and disenchantment are at least equaled by attraction, curiosity and outright envy.
. Huge swaths of the relationship - in the realms of business, intelligence and even military affairs - still work. Criticism of the Bush administration, given full voice in the media, is offset by a French business ethic that often lauds the United States, and by a strong feeling, particularly among the young, that America remains a land of opportunity.
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The exodus of young French to Silicon Valley is so dramatic that it has led to the creation of organizations like Interfrench, a nonprofit group of 5,000 French-speaking members who share business intelligence and even advice about French restaurants.
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France criticised by 22 of Europe’s elder statesmen
[quote]Twenty-two of Europe’s wise men, from ex-prime ministers to Nobel prize winners, have denounced France’s insistence on secularising the European Union and establishing a strict separation between Church and state. In an essay in yesterday’s Le Monde, the elder statesmen said in Europe, Christianity was “at the root of the fundamental notion of the individual”.
The remarks were directed both at the authors of the new EU constitution, which contains no reference to Christianity, and at France, where President Jacques Chirac is considering a new law to reinforce the secularism of national institutions. “Everything we see today shows the limits of a narrowly ‘secularist’ vision in European societies,” the essay said. “The end of ideological oppression and the rise of various forms of fundamentalism lead to a better understanding of reality.”
[quote=“fred smith”][quote]Saddam Hussein refused to order a counterattack against U.S. troops when war erupted in March because he misjudged the initial ground thrust as a ruse and had been convinced earlier by Russian and French contacts that he could avoid or survive a land invasion, former Iraqi deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz has told interrogators, according to U.S. officials.
I read so much about the US weapons sales to Iraq during that one year 1982-3 but I have yet to see the outrage over the French administration and its extensive support and coddling of Saddam Hussein. What gives? Let’s not even begin to talk about the Russians but then the Russians never claimed or pretended to be allies of the United States.[/quote]
i think the only reason i harp on the US so much is that I care about the US.
The french? who cares? as long as they export their french movies, cheeses and wines and not stick their noses in other people’s business, and stop complaining about preserving the integrity of the french language by outlawing use of “non-french” words, they are a non-issue.
i mean, after de gaulle and the utter capitulation of france against germany and the vichy regime, what’s really left of the french?
and russia? as long as the russian mafia doesnt take over the entire mafia underworld, there’s nothing to worry about.
Of course the French don’t MATTER, but it is still fun to pick on them for several reasons:
No one can accuse you of racism
No one seriously believes that the French are enemy No. 1
The French deserve it (if for nothing else liking Jerry Lewis movies)
Everyone should have a nemesis, especially one that really can’t fight back
The French speak funny
The French look funny
The French have enough going for them that it does not look like kicking someone when they are down, for example, food, wine, fashion, etc. Can anyone imagine harranguing poor Somalia or Sudan? You would look like a downright asshole.
The French secretly enjoy a good verbal battle. Keeps the heart going. Fun to thumb their noses at the Americans because they know that nothing will ever come of their empty soapbox posturing. It’s your little sister teasing the shit out of you. She may yell Mom but she really can’t beat the shit out of you and you would look like a downright chump for really having a go at trying to smack the shit out of her. You could do it but who wants to have that label: He beat up his little sister attached?
So there are many reasons to continue badgering the French. Besides, if I get it out online then I can be all smiling and nice when I meet them socially. It keeps me from becoming a bore by ranting during dinner or cocktail hours thus ensuring I am re-invited so it’s a win-win-win-win situation, non?
Vive le France! Or I would have to find someone else to hate, but hate in a good way, you know like if I didn’t love you I’d hate you and a place that I love to hate and hate to love. Just like a French love movie n’est-ce pas?
Lest we forget about deaths not attributable to the Americans and CIA…
From this week’s Economist
The first point to make is that although a speech is just a speech, some things need to be said out loud, even if you might think they go without saying. Usually, they don’t. Indeed, the Arabs’ British and French colonisers seldom took the view that Arabs were fit for democracy. It is after all less than a dozen years since France quietly encouraged Algeria’s army to cancel an election the Islamist opposition was poised to win in the former French colony. That calamitous mistake led to a civil war costing perhaps 100,000 lives. And there are still many people
Even better is the fact that the hero in his little British frigate is up against a larger, more powerful French warship. That allows U.S. audiences the particular satisfaction of seeing Anglo-Saxon cannonballs puncturing the Tricolor. My favorite part was Aubrey rallying the troops with a Henry V, St. Crispin’s Day speech featuring: “Do you want your children growing up and singing the Marseillaise?” It was met by a chorus of deafening “No’s.” Maybe they should have put that in the trailer too.
With rugby as with any sport, it’s important to be just as good a winner as a loser. We should not revel in the opposing team’s defeat and should respect the efforts that they made on the field…
FRANCE LOSES!!! HAHAHAHAHAAHH FRANCE!!! YOU LOST TOO BAD BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
After a week in which he was written off as a 24-year-old with a great future behind him, Jonny Wilkinson emerged from monsoon-like conditions in Sydney’s Telstra stadium to score all England’s points in their 24-7 victory over France in the 2003 rugby World Cup semi-final yesterday.
Why, because… in case you haven’t noticed, I’m not a heavy-handed moderator. Hey, I can use a French word in this post/thread now in an apropos manner… I prefer a laissez faire approach to moderating
A Jewish school annex north of Paris was firebombed on Saturday, the latest attack on property in the 600,000-strong French Jewish community, Europe’s largest.
The urgency shown in Paris, which Jewish groups in Israel and the United States have accused of laxity in dealing with anti-Semitic acts, reflected a growing concern that alienation among French Muslim youths was fueling anti-Jewish aggression.
A wave of anti-Semitic violence in France started three years ago in what officials call a reaction to Israel’s tough stand against the Palestinian uprising. Synagogues, schools and Jewish-owned shops have been attacked.
France is also home to Europe’s largest Muslim community, about five million, mostly of North African origin. Even many of those born in France complain they are not accepted by the majority in the traditionally Catholic country.
Interesting… Why not then attack the Catholics? Why the Jews? No doubt there are root causes? We should be sympathetic and understand?
Tigerman is laissez faire. Now don’t let the door hit you on your way out, er ahem, back in. haha[/quote]
My point is that you are just engaging in a vituperative rant. There is no discussion because there is no opposition. If you seriously wanted to discuss matters “French”, surely you could find an online French community.
Far be it from anyone to suggest the closing of a thread, but the point of this one escapes me, especially when one notes that well over 50% of the posts are made by the same person and are no more than repeated inane criticisms.
I’d suggest a shrink, gin, or getting laid (not in that order).
In the ongoing battle inside the EU over how to deal with the U.S., it is the French, not the British, who will be on the losing side. As Blair made clear to Congress on July 18 and on November 10, in the traditional foreign-policy speech that prime ministers deliver at the Mansion House, the EU is not just France and Germany. Instead, it is an association that will grow on May 1, 2004, to 25 states, thanks to ten new members, of which eight will be from Eastern Europe. The new EU will have a clear pro-U.S. majority. Already, five current EU members and seven of those set to join in 2004 have troops in Iraq (Bulgaria and Romania, expected to enter the EU in 2007, also have forces in Iraq). Blair reminded Congress in July that the East European states that are about to join the EU “believe in the transatlantic alliance.” Battling against the perception that “Europe” is Chirac and Schroeder, he pleaded with Congress: “So don’t give up on Europe. Work with it.”
That, perhaps, is the crowning irony of President Bush’s trip to Britain: Contrary to much that Americans hear, Britain is not an isolated U.S. ally beside a heaving mass of angry European states. Rather, Britain, and its American alignment, will represent the majority view among EU states, with the ungrateful anti-Americanism of Chirac doomed to be the minority creed.
Yes yes yes… Why do you think the french are so vocal? Because they feel threatened. EU used to be a french invention, the national interest of france was the national interest of the eu, but hta thas changed, and the french are taking it as a bunch of crybabies.
