Liddle's syndrome in Taiwan attributed to Dutch rule

Discussion Open Forum
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tw.news.yahoo.com/%E5%AE%B6%E6%9 … 00355.html

According to the article above, which cites a recent study of Dr. Marie Lin, there are a small portion of Southern Taiwanese (especially in Tainan,) who has the genetic condition called Liddle’s syndrome. Where the kidney functions abnormally and absorbs too much sodium, causing high blood pressure, hypokalemia and other symptoms at a young age.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liddle%27s_syndrome

Liddle’s syndrome is a recent (in terms of evolution) European mutation, and most Doctors in Taiwan are unfamiliar with it, since it is so uncommon in Asia. A famous Taiwanese poet called Wang Li-hua, born and raised in Tainan, is found to have the syndrome and Dr. Marie Lin conducted genetic tracing on her relatives and discovered her mother’s side has European DNA marker DRB1*0301, proving her family has European background. Both Liddle’s sydrome and Dutch ancestry is more common in Tainan and Southern Taiwan.

The medicine for Liddle’s syndrome, Amiloride, is not imported into Taiwan. Wang Li-hua is working to get the medicine covered under the health care system.

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I thought this thread was about this:

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they’re spelled a liddle differently.

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well, I actually thought of this guy:

RIP

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There should be Dutch and Portuguese blood in some Taiwanese … and American from military personal that were stationed in Taiwan or on R&R

Responses to dumb posts were sent from my Nexus 7, I hate Apple BTW, with Tapatalk 8

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All along the coast there are mixed blood descendants, some of whom were historically wealthy. My wife knew some Taiwanese kids with red hair, hard to believe but that’s what she said. They came from Houlong on the coast of Miaoli. It’s something that could do with more research.
Like BP said the Americans were here as were Japanese and then you have aboriginal blood lines which are seriously overlooked.

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[quote=“headhonchoII”]All along the coast there are mixed blood descendants, some of whom were historically wealthy. My wife knew some Taiwanese kids with red hair, hard to believe but that’s what she said. They came from Houlong on the coast of Miaoli. It’s something that could do with more research.
Like BP said the Americans were here as were Japanese and then you have aboriginal blood lines which are seriously overlooked.[/quote]

I’ve seen Taiwanese people with natural red hair in Tainan and Jiayi. They are born and raise here, and have no knowledge of their European ancestry, and most of their family are redheaded.

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[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“headhonchoII”]All along the coast there are mixed blood descendants, some of whom were historically wealthy. My wife knew some Taiwanese kids with red hair, hard to believe but that’s what she said. They came from Houlong on the coast of Miaoli. It’s something that could do with more research.
Like BP said the Americans were here as were Japanese and then you have aboriginal blood lines which are seriously overlooked.[/quote]

I’ve seen Taiwanese people with natural red hair in Tainan and Jiayi. They are born and raise here, and have no knowledge of their European ancestry, and most of their family are redheaded.[/quote]

Polynesean red haired people.

Responses to dumb posts were sent from my Nexus 7, I hate Apple BTW, with Tapatalk 8

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[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“headhonchoII”]All along the coast there are mixed blood descendants, some of whom were historically wealthy. My wife knew some Taiwanese kids with red hair, hard to believe but that’s what she said. They came from Houlong on the coast of Miaoli. It’s something that could do with more research.
Like BP said the Americans were here as were Japanese and then you have aboriginal blood lines which are seriously overlooked.[/quote]

I’ve seen Taiwanese people with natural red hair in Tainan and Jiayi. They are born and raise here, and have no knowledge of their European ancestry, and most of their family are redheaded.[/quote]

My cousins in NY are red heads with Chinese characteristics. :smiley:

I wonder if the mixing comes from Dutch and Han or Dutch and Aborigine, then Han. Some genetist would have a field day with that study.

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[quote=“Belgian Pie”][quote=“hansioux”][quote=“headhonchoII”]All along the coast there are mixed blood descendants, some of whom were historically wealthy. My wife knew some Taiwanese kids with red hair, hard to believe but that’s what she said. They came from Houlong on the coast of Miaoli. It’s something that could do with more research.
Like BP said the Americans were here as were Japanese and then you have aboriginal blood lines which are seriously overlooked.[/quote]

I’ve seen Taiwanese people with natural red hair in Tainan and Jiayi. They are born and raise here, and have no knowledge of their European ancestry, and most of their family are redheaded.[/quote]

Polynesean red haired people.

Responses to dumb posts were sent from my Nexus 7, I hate Apple BTW, with Tapatalk 8[/quote]

even though part of the Polynesian genetics came from Taiwan (according to studies, maternal side (mtDNA) mostly originated from Taiwan 10,000 years ago, but most Taiwanese paternal lineage didn’t make it past the Philippines), I think polynesians might have gotten their redhead from other sources. I am sure the genes responsible for the red hair can be isolated and traced in the scientific world, but If i have to guess, the red hair probably comes from the populations that got to Southeast Asia during the first homo-sapien migration out of Africa 50,000 years ago (same pre-Neolithic migration that gave raise to the Aboriginal Australians).

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Hi,

Does anyone know where I can participate in a DNA testing of Taiwanese with possible Dutch ancestry? To give you some background information, my father said that his family came to Taiwan hundreds of years ago with Zheng Chenggong. I heard that there was a red-head concubine but cannot be sure. I live in the U.S. and most of the older relatives in Taiwan have died. I’ve participated in 2 mass DNA testing in the U.S. and have found to have a trace of aborigine blood and some Japanese blood(most likely from my mother’s side), but if I were to have a trickle of Dutch blood it would not show up in a mass DNA testing since it is unique. I have very big eyes. As I grow older I want to know where I am from and the “rumors” I heard have haunted me.

Thank You for any referrals, ideas, and suggestions. :slight_smile:

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I’m guessing, and don’t take in the wrong way, that large numbers of Taiwanese people (minnan people) could count Zheng family as their ancestors and also some Dutch blood.
Do the numbers

400 years.

Divide that by an average age of 25 to get 18 generations

Simple ancestors formula 2[super]n[/super] = X
Father + Mother = 2
n = Number of Generations
X = Total number of ancestors

Multiply 2[super]18[/super] to roughly get number of ancestors going back 400 years.

However the Zhengs would have had many wives and mistresses so the total number should be much higher.

Inbreeding is a significant factor. But going back over 400 years an average number of people 4,000 ancestors. However the number should be much higher due to Zhengs being a powerful family with many mistresses and wives and better off. Many of these individuals had mixed heritage aswell. Therefore it is absolutely impossible to tell where in the lineage your genes came from as they had so many chances to jump in from different ancestors (and the same gene can jump in multiple times due to inbreeding) UNLESS you have a DNA sample from that individual or specific line of individuals. HOWEVER if you are a direct descendant of Zheng Cheng Gong through the male line you will have his Y chromosome. However it will not show if you are a descendant through any females of the line, although that is equally valid (you will have inherited the genes through the non sex chromosomes).

dgmweb.net/Ancillary/OnE/NumberAncestors.html

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[quote=“headhonchoII”]I’m guessing, and don’t take in the wrong way, that large numbers of Taiwanese people (minnan people) could count Zheng family as their ancestors and also some Dutch blood.
Do the numbers

400 years.

Divide that by an average age of 25 to get 18 generations

Simple ancestors formula 2[super]n[/super] = X
Father + Mother = 2
n = Number of Generations
X = Total number of ancestors

Multiply 2[super]18[/super] to roughly get number of ancestors going back 400 years.

However the Zhengs would have had many wives and mistresses so the total number should be much higher.

Inbreeding is a significant factor. But going back over 400 years an average number of people 4,000 ancestors. However the number should be much higher due to Zhengs being a powerful family with many mistresses and wives and better off. Many of these individuals had mixed heritage aswell. Therefore it is absolutely impossible to tell where in the lineage your genes came from as they had so many chances to jump in from different ancestors (and the same gene can jump in multiple times due to inbreeding) UNLESS you have a DNA sample from that individual or specific line of individuals. HOWEVER if you are a direct descendant of Zheng Cheng Gong through the male line you will have his Y chromosome. However it will not show if you are a descendant through any females of the line, although that is equally valid (you will have inherited the genes through the non sex chromosomes).

dgmweb.net/Ancillary/OnE/NumberAncestors.html[/quote]

I doubt much of Zheng’s bloodline were left in Taiwan. Koxinga died pretty soon after he arrived in Taiwan. His first born son Zheng Jing was the king of Tong-ning for 18 years, but only had 2 off springs. The first born of Zheng Jing was murdered by his uncle and his younger brother. Both his uncle and brother and their families were under house arrest in Beijing after Qing defeated them. So his bloodline either left, or were probably killed by their own family.

By the way, Koxinga had himself a Dutch wife, she was the 16 year old daughter of the Dutch missionary Anthonius Hambroek, whom Koxiga executed for failing to convince the Dutch to surrender. Koxinga was holding Hambroek’s wife and 2 daughters hostage. Assume Koxinga did have undocumented offsprings after arriving to Taiwan, some of them could have had Dutch blood.

Anyway, the same can’t be said for the troops that survived in Taiwan. They probably had many decedents here in Taiwan.

Although Koxinga’s forces weren’t in Taiwan for that long. They were here only 22 years. The Dutch were in Southern Taiwan for 38 years and in Northern Taiwan for 23 year. The Spanish were in Northern Taiwan for 16 years.

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[quote=“jesus80”]I thought this thread was about this:

[/quote]

lidls :bravo: :discodance:

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I wish, blows Costco out of the water.

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Forgot to add, since Koxinga himself is half Japanese, if he did leave many undocumented offsprings here in Taiwan, that would mean many Taiwanese would also have Japanese ancestors.

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Thanks for the response! Maybe I wasn’t clear. I am not a descendant of Koxinga. My father’s family came with him. My last name is Lai. :slight_smile:

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[quote=“Minling”]Hi,

Does anyone know where I can participate in a DNA testing of Taiwanese with possible Dutch ancestry? To give you some background information, my father said that his family came to Taiwan hundreds of years ago with Zheng Chenggong. I heard that there was a red-head concubine but cannot be sure. I live in the U.S. and most of the older relatives in Taiwan have died. I’ve participated in 2 mass DNA testing in the U.S. and have found to have a trace of aborigine blood and some Japanese blood(most likely from my mother’s side), but if I were to have a trickle of Dutch blood it would not show up in a mass DNA testing since it is unique. I have very big eyes. As I grow older I want to know where I am from and the “rumors” I heard have haunted me.

Thank You for any referrals, ideas, and suggestions. :slight_smile:[/quote]

My understanding is this:

Assuming you are male, were the tests for Y-chromosome haplogroups or for mtDNA haplogroups? If you aren’t male, then mtDNA’s probably the only thing you can do. If you’ve done both that’s pretty much all you can do, because further tests would be much more expensive.

Just because both tests shows your direct patrilineal and materlineal ancestora didn’t come from Europe, doesn’t mean you don’t have Dutch ancestry. As Y-chromosome only tests direct paternal lineage, and mtDNA only tests direct maternal lineage. So say if your paternal grandmother is from Europe, it would not show in either tests, because your mtDNA would come from your maternal grandmother and your mother. If your female paternal cousins did the mtDNA test, then it would show up for them. Which means even though you do have Dutch ancestry, it would not show in the test. Since in your case the hypothetical dutch ancestor would have been several generations up, it would be difficult to find the right relative for testing.

The last thing you could do is to look for genes specific to Europeans, but even then it would not be 100% conclusive.

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Thanks very much, Hansioux! This helps clear up the Science part a lot!

Minling :slight_smile:

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My wife and her mom have red hair, and have blood circulation problems, and her younger brother (like 28yo) have had high pressure problems for years also they are all really tall and big frame people (not fat and not the mom).