Bring that back this moment Hobbes. I could actually hear your snarl!
[quote=“Bu Lai En”] What I find very worrying is some of the responses on this forum (and some of the responses that came in the wake of past terrorist attacks) in the vein of ‘wipe out the lot of them’. Or people who see these as reasons to further limit human rights or justify non-related wars. Those making these sorts of responses are becoming more and more like those they purport to oppose.
If in responding to savage attacks on civilisation and freedom, we descend into savagery and compromise freedom, then we clearly lose to the attackers.
Brian[/quote]
Now Now Brian, we just having some venting. Nobody reads more into it than that. A bit of levity always required… imho
After all there are always opposing views about what terrorist doings mean…
Well…I suggested a more accurate alternative.
Seems that also ruffled some pc feathers.
:serenade:“I’d like to teach the world to sing
in per-fect har-mo-ny…” 
I always liked that song!
(I guess the beheading videos are completely out of the question.) 
Me thinks alert levels have always been in place, they were just not color coded and thus not, or less, visible to the public.
That there were no attacks after 911 in the US is because the authorities became more aware of the vulnerability and beefed up security, often in a more visible way (which now goes hand in hand with raising the alert level) as it would have happened anywhere - and as such, even without a color code, equals raising the alert level.
While the alert level recently had been lowered in London / the UK they were still on hightened (‘substantial’) level before the attacks but unfortunately it did not prevent them.
IMHO even the highest level could not have prevented an attack on public transport and probably never will, unless you screen each and every commuter before boarding a bus, train etc.
This might be interesting to those that are quick to blame Muslims/Islam: Bombings evoke sympathy in Mideast
Al Queada specialists and experts seem to agree that this is the work of this particular organisation.
Well, the terrorists have been wasting their time. UK citizens, and in particular, the people of London, seem to be walking around the unaffected streets as normal.
There was little, if no panic. The situation was controlled quickly and professionally by the emergency services and disruption has been kept to a minimum.
The terrorists will be kicking themselves tomorrow when they realise they have made little impact with their efforts to cause maximum mayhem.
Tomorrow, the majority of people will go back to work as normal. Tube services will probably be up and running to some degree later tonight on unaffected lines and bus services are already running.
You’ve failed, you (but not collectively indicative of your entire religion, or people thereof) indiscriminate (but not so as indiscriminate to offend those who were not affected by those indiscriminate acts) persons of a religion so derived as to occaisionally don as you see fit, the headgear resembling that of an object of a towelled nature. This by no means is intended to offend other nations, religions or sects of religions who may wear such material as headgear; or any persons who wear such headgear as a hobby for enjnoyment and recreational purposes. This is also not a derogatory post intended to attack the manufacturers of such headgear items or material thereof. Towel users for bathroom purposes may not be concerned as there is no underlying intention to offend any towel users in any part of the world in any religion or any industry. 
:bravo: :bravo:
Hope this is PC enough for you,
Thank you.
It strikes me that (if the perpertrators of this attack were Islamic Fanatics) one of the goals of these terrorists might actually be to turn people against Islam and Muslims. If every one ofthese attacks, in different parts of the world leads more and more people to mistrust and hate muslims, then the normal peaceful muslims will feel more and more isolated. They could start to feel that they are only understood and safe with other muslims. They will start to sympathise with the fanatics.
This could all just be aimed at further polarising the world into Muslims vs the rest, which is what the fanatics believe anyway. Of course there are those on the other side who would also like such clear-cut polarisation (if they don’t already believe in it anyway). Only those who wish for division and war will be the winners.
Brian
[quote=“Bu Lai En”]It strikes me that (if the perpertrators of this attack were Islamic Fanatics) one of the goals of these terrorists might actually be to turn people against Islam and Muslims. If every one ofthese attacks, in different parts of the world leads more and more people to mistrust and hate muslims, then the normal peaceful muslims will feel more and more isolated. They could start to feel that they are only understood and safe with other muslims. They will start to sympathise with the fanatics.
This could all just be aimed at further polarising the world into Muslims vs the rest, which is what the fanatics believe anyway. Of course there are those on the other side who would also like such clear-cut polarisation (if they don’t already believe in it anyway). Only those who wish for division and war will be the winners.
Brian[/quote]
This is one of the more intelligent comments I’ve heard or read in the last day. Polarization would most likely lead to a higher level of segregation, which is exactly what fundamentalists of any ilk need in order to maintain control. If the Muslim world becomes more and more segregated from the modern world and everything about it that Islamic fundamentalists abhor, then the average muslim will be less likely to ever come in contact with ideas or practices that would lead him to challenge tyranny in his own religious or political sphere. Some have painted AQ as a bunch of irrational zealots who want nothing less than to see the west either converted or in ashes. That may be true, but I think it’s just as likely that they want segregation of the Islamic world from the rest so that their ideology can rule at home.
Of all the TV reports that I’ve seen so far, one in particular has stuck out for me, and sums up a uniquely humane, strong and dignified response.
It was an interview on CNN with one of the survivors who was on a train that had been bombed. After giving a very eloquent and horrifying description of the events a journalist asked him what he though about the people who had done this.
“Pity” he replied (an answer the journalist obviously wasn’t expecting as he spluttered “Pity?” back at him), “Yes, pity that someone who would think like this and want to inflict pain like this” (I’m paraphrasing).
It just struck me as very dignified and strong and something the terrorists would never understand. As others (especially Ken Livingstone)have noticed they don’t just want to spread terror they want to destroy our way of life, our freedom and beliefs and cause more pain and terror. Luckily, as can be seen, most Londoners aren’t going to let them do that.
[quote=“BuLiEn”]It strikes me that (if the perpertrators of this attack were Islamic Fanatics) one of the goals of these terrorists might actually be to turn people against Islam and Muslims. If every one ofthese attacks, in different parts of the world leads more and more people to mistrust and hate muslims, then the normal peaceful muslims will feel more and more isolated. They could start to feel that they are only understood and safe with other muslims. They will start to sympathise with the fanatics.
This could all just be aimed at further polarising the world into Muslims vs the rest, which is what the fanatics believe anyway. Of course there are those on the other side who would also like such clear-cut polarisation (if they don’t already believe in it anyway). Only those who wish for division and war will be the winners.[/quote]
I think that the majority of muslims and whites in the UK get on pretty well. However, even without Islamic fanatics trying to seperate muslims and non muslims, the governments are doing a pretty good job of it already be identifying different racial groups and making them feel segrgregated.
One of the bombs went off in an area that is populated by a number of British resident Muslims.
which goes along with the segregation theory.
[quote=“Bu Lai En”]It strikes me that (if the perpertrators of this attack were Islamic Fanatics) one of the goals of these terrorists might actually be to turn people against Islam and Muslims. If every one ofthese attacks, in different parts of the world leads more and more people to mistrust and hate muslims, then the normal peaceful muslims will feel more and more isolated. They could start to feel that they are only understood and safe with other muslims. They will start to sympathise with the fanatics.
This could all just be aimed at further polarising the world into Muslims vs the rest, which is what the fanatics believe anyway. Of course there are those on the other side who would also like such clear-cut polarisation (if they don’t already believe in it anyway). Only those who wish for division and war will be the winners.[/quote]Or they could just be murdering bastards who like killing innocent people.
I lent Stephen Leather’s book The Bombmaker to my Noo Yawker co-worker a few days back. The plot-line is an ex-IRA member is forced to make a bomb to be set in Central London and the twist was that the building was owned by the Hong Kong Triads and they wanted to claim insurance on the building.
It seems a weird coincidence that I lent that particular book out very recently.
[quote=“Bu Lai En”]It strikes me that (if the perpertrators of this attack were Islamic Fanatics) one of the goals of these terrorists might actually be to turn people against Islam and Muslims. If every one ofthese attacks, in different parts of the world leads more and more people to mistrust and hate muslims, then the normal peaceful muslims will feel more and more isolated. They could start to feel that they are only understood and safe with other muslims. They will start to sympathise with the fanatics.
This could all just be aimed at further polarising the world into Muslims vs the rest, which is what the fanatics believe anyway. Of course there are those on the other side who would also like such clear-cut polarisation (if they don’t already believe in it anyway). Only those who wish for division and war will be the winners.
Brian[/quote]
This post is soon to be in the most-quoted. 
I do agree that segregation is a goal.
However, I also believe that for the majority of Western Muslims living in Western countries, this strategy will not work.
One thing that has struck me from the beginning (911) is how much the terrorists overestimate people’s stupidity. I mean it’s almost like watching China muscle Taiwan around during election time, only to have their plans backfire.
Aside for the odd Oregonian nutballs rushing off to join the jihad, I don’t see documented scores of Western Muslims falling for this shit. Muslim doesn’t mean moron.
Will this be the same in Indonesia and Africa? Doubtful sadly.
Woops. Once contained a short-vent. Stuff it. 911 was not the beginning!
Original vent was longer.
[quote=“Matchstick_man”]Woops. Once contained a short-vent. Stuff it. 911 was not the beginning!
Original vent was longer.[/quote]
I posted a chronological list of terrorist attacks earlier MSMan. By beginning, I meant more, the beginning of this particular phase.
I just found this article, lucid and telling:
[quote]The Anticipated Attack
Don’t blame Iraq for the bombings.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Thursday, July 7, 2005, at 10:39 AM PT
My son flew in from London at the weekend, and we were discussing, as we have several times before, why it hadn’t happened yet. “It” was the jihadist attack on the city, for which the British security forces have been braced ever since the bombings in Madrid. When the telephone rang in the small hours of this morning, I was pretty sure it was the call I had been waiting for. And as I snapped on the TV I could see, from the drawn expression and halting speech of Tony Blair, that he was reacting not so much with shock as from a sense of inevitability.
Perhaps this partly explains the stoicism and insouciance of those Brits interviewed on the streets, all of whom seemed to know that a certain sang-froid was expected of them. The concrete barriers around the Houses of Parliament have been up for some time. There are estimated to be over 4 million surveillance cameras in the United Kingdom today, but of course it had to be the Underground
Jdsmith, after reading that I can’t get Midnight Oil 1982 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 album lyrics out of my head.
[quote]“A smallish man, Afghanistan
A watchdog in another’s land
They’re only there to lend a hand short memory
Wake up in sweat in the dead of night”[/quote]song: Short Memory
And probably more appropriate
[quote]There must be some solution but I just don’t know[/quote] song: Read About It
This is what a couple of prominent “ragheads” said.
“Targeting civilians in their transport means and lives is denounced and rejected,”
Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy chief of Hamas’ political bureau, said.
Leading Lebanese Shia Muslim scholar, Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah, voiced outrage.
“These crimes are not accepted by any religion. It is a barbarism wholly rejected by Islam,” he said.
I noticed on the news a clip of someone being given heart massage while being taken out of the ambulance. Would they be given heart massage in the ambulance in Taiwan ? What would have happened to them here ?
Did anyone notice the news crews getting in the way of rescuers ? Me niether. (The above mentioned shot was taken from a distance)
Heading back to blighty very soon. Hoping to get a job in London so…
Dear Al Qaida
… Whatever. Enjoy your virgins - my suspicion is that these virgins will be your fellow murders and you will be buggereing each other in hell. As for the rest of us, you seriously expect us to give up? :loco:
BB