Looking for a picture of the original Darlie "Darkie&qu


#1

Does anyone have an image of the original Darlie toothpaste box, logo or advertisement? I’d like it for a report and a web page.

I’ll credit the owner if you wish.

For those of you who don’t know, the tooth paste Darlie was originally called “Darkie” in English.

However, my reading shows that once P&G acquired the brand, they found the original name and logo to be politically incorrect.

They whitened the face in the logo to make him appear racially ambiguous and changed the name from “Darkie” to “Darlie”. However, the name in Chinese remained the same, 黑人 [heiren] or Black Man tooth paste.

Incidentally, there are all kinds of “Man” tooth pastes in Taiwan. There is White Man, Green Man and probably more…

please post the image here for all to see or send it to spinak73@hotmail.com


#2

Please do not post the image here. I generally do not like images slowing down this forum.

But you are welcome to paste links. Here are some:
www.prmuseum.com/kendrix/gifs/darkie2.jpg
web.wt.net/~toy/Images/Antiques-Uniques/U001.jpg

A comparison of Darkie and Darlie:
www.business.utah.edu/~mktrwb/darkie.jpg

“Politically incorrect” is a more polite term than I would choose to describe Darkie.

It took P&G several years to get around to changing the name.


#3

Sorry about suggesting that people post here. Saw it done in other forums so I thought it would be ok.
Anyway… wow

That image is even more “stereotypical” than I’d imagined.

The brand name is “Halwey and Hazel” I don’t think Darlie was a Chinese invention, was it?

Is there any history on how this brand was created or who had the bright idea?

I’m also interested to see if there were any pro or con remarks for changing the name.

My information came from some general business articles I found on Nexus/Lexus Student Universe. The main point of the articles was to describe how some brands need to change their or name when they go international in order not to offend different cultures.

They didn’t get into the juicy details that a picture like that might generate.

Thanks for pictures.


#4

“Politically incorrect” is a more polite term than I would choose to describe Darkie.

Yeah, and “Green Man” toothpaste is racially offensive to Aliens (not referring to the moderator with the same name). Why are people so sensitive where obviously no racial discrimination can be seen in this case?

Ok, so it’s another issue why calling it like that but I really don’t see the point of concern.
In fact “Black Man’s” toothpaste is “politically incorrect” towards white or other non-black people.


#5

Rascal,

If I marketed a soap with the slogan “so obsessively clean it’s German” and the brand name “Nazi,” would you find likewise unoffensive?

Terms and images like that kept black folk down in America as surely as Jim Crow. “Darkie” is not as bad as ****** , but it’ll certainly get the shit kicked out of you in Harlem. There was also a cluster of racist comments about the whiteness of black people’s teeth.

If you don’t know enough about America to understand why some things are considered politically incorrect, then just refrain from commenting.

The first time I saw “Darlie” my jaw dropped. Same thing happened just now when I saw the unreconstructed version. Thanks for sharing. I had always thought that it was called “darlie” because some Taiwanese businessman couldn’t spell his racial epithets.


#6

The image on the Darkie toothpaste is that of (or supposed to represent) Al Jolson. I kid you not.
Remember folks, times have changed so don’t get your dander up over something that was socially accepted 50 years ago. They changed the logo and the name along with the changing times.


#7

Correction: The company was Colgate, not Proctor & Gamble. It bought Darkie in 1985 and changed the name – after considerable pressure – in 1989.


#8

I grew up in a small hick town where I hear “darkie” in reference to me quite often. If you called me one I might be inclined to forget all the anger management I was brought up with and pop you one. It’s offensive, trust me. And I heard the “lovely” racist jokes that went along the lines of using one’s teeth (smile) to be accounted for in night school. As an African-American I find it offensive. I knew about Darlie’s original name and knew it was called ‘hei ren’, but I never expected the picture to be that offensive.


#9
quote:
Originally posted by wolf_reinhold: Remember folks, times have changed so don't get your dander up over something that was socially accepted 50 years ago. They changed the logo and the name along with the changing times.

I think the problem here is that it would likely be “socially accepted” by most Taiwanese people TODAY. I doubt the pressure to change the look came from Taiwanese (and it isn’t really that much of a change, IMHO, given the fact that the Chinese name is still the same, and the image is merely “cleaned up” but still, to me, something that attempts to look ‘servile’ in the ‘grand old tradition’) they haven’t really DONE anything. It’s no better, and far worse, than the annoyance of having Taiwanese people tell us “what the US is really like” based on their judgements from movies and so forth.

The habit of using racial stereotypes is deeply ingrained. I have a Taiwanese friend with two US Master’s degrees (one from a “historically black” school, too) and long-time residence in the US, and I still sensed this in the attitudes I felt from this person. One would expect that sort of person might be a little more forward-looking.

The other problem, of course, is that unless they’ve changed the formulation as well as the packaging, it’s really shite toothpaste. In the 1980s, that stuff foamed and foamed and foamed, and I mean just using a really small amount. Not really an ideal dentrifrice, but in those days there weren’t so many imports available so we just foamed. (The shampoos then used to make my hair fall out too. Don’t know why.)

Terry


#10

If I marketed a soap with the slogan “so obsessively clean it’s German” and the brand name “Nazi,” would you find likewise unoffensive?

Great comparision. An no, the “obessesively clean” statement would not offend me - in fact I didn’t know that this was associated with Germans!? In combination with “Nazi” it would give a totally different meaning though.

IMHO the term “Nazi” plays surely in a different league and I consider it offensive if addressed at a person or Germans in general.

Maybe “Darkie” wasn’t the best choice but I was actually referring to “Black Man’s” toothpaste.

If you don’t know enough about America to understand why some things are considered politically incorrect, then just refrain from commenting.

Uh, here we go again - the all knowing what’s best for the world America and anyone who says or thinks differently has to shut up!?
Though I am open to an explanation why it is like you say it has to be. Please enlighten me.

But perhaps my English isn’t good enough and “Black Man’s” toothpaste sounds like a ‘toothpaste for Black people’ to me and thus would be offensive (or rather discriminating) to people with a different skin color. I maybe wrong though.


#11

Rascal,

Reread my post. the knowledge I claimed was quite limited. I claimed only to know about american culture, race relations, and the PC movement. You were the one making snide comments about something you plainly didn’t understand. Who is then that thinks they’re all-knowing?

I chose “nazi” because it would be as unambiguously offensive to you as “darkie” is to an American. I didn’t realize that you were only intending to point to the Chinese.

Let me rephrase, refrain from snide comments about things you don’t understand.


#12

Let me rephrase, refrain from snide comments about things you don’t understand.

Else? But let me make it clear: I haven’t claimed to be all knowing.

I merely stated my opinion and if I am not mistaken I am entitled to do so as you are.
If you don’t agree it’s another thing but I don’t think you can tell me what I can say and what not.

While perhaps the other “N” word is discriminating towards Blacks the word “Nazi” isn’t discriminating, i.e. it’s offensive in another way. Thus I don’t think your comparision is suitable.


#13
quote:
Originally posted by Grizzly: Rascal,

If I marketed a soap with the slogan “so obsessively clean it’s German” and the brand name “Nazi,” would you find likewise unoffensive?


Ve hat ziss soap already, 1941-1945, nicht var? Vhere kan Ich buy more? Danke!


#14
quote[quote] Please do [i]not[/i] post the image here. I generally do not like images slowing down this forum. [/quote] -- cranky laowai

Is this the cranky part of the laowai?
I don’t like people to use big words; it slows down my loading time…
I was going to say that I have a tube of the said toothpaste and that the scans linked here are not very clear at all. I was going to offer to post a nice, clear scan, but I don’t want to inconvenience anyone…


#15

I also kept a tube of ‘Darkie’ but sadly no box.


#16

Originally posted by wolf_reinhold:

quote[quote]I was going to offer to post a nice, clear scan, but I don't want to inconvenience anyone.... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] [/quote] Just post a link to it.

If you don’t have a way of putting the file somewhere on the Internet, send it to me and I’ll put it in a temporary directory on my site. You could then post a link to it in your message.


#17

This is a great debate, but who created this brand.

I enjoy history and I enjoy finding the origins to things. Who was responsible for creating this brand? Does anyone have access to a library that has microfilm copies of the Hong Kong/Taiwan Papers?

I’d love to get some reprints of the original adds and love to read the actual debate about the toothpaste.


#18

This was not an Asian brand. Like many between-the-wars brands (WD&HO Wills cigarettes, aaah) it lives on in Asia long after tastes in the motherland changed (in this case I guess because it was owned until the 80s by a HK company).

this site has a Darkie box picture and on this one you can buy a pack (as well as darkie mints).

A quick Google search turns up countless references to Darkie toothpaste across Asia and the US (where it originated).


#19

Found 5 newspaper articles concerning “Darlie” toothpaste.

I did a search of LEXIS-NEXIS and managed to download 5 interesting articles.

10 years ago; Darkie no, Darlie yes, South China Morning Post, SECTION: SUNDAY MONEY; On The Record; Pg. 2, May 16, 1999

THE MEDIA BUSINESS; A New Name For Toothpaste, The New York Times, Section D; Page 25, Column 4; Financial Desk, April 18, 1989,

COMPLAINTS PROMPT COLGATE TO CHANGE NAME OF TOOTHPASTE, Los Angeles Times, Business; Part 4; Page 2; Column 3; Financial Desk, January 30, 1989

Colgate to Rename a Toothpaste, The New York Times, Section D; Page 1, Column 4; Financial Desk, January 27, 1989

TAIWAN’S ‘DARKIE’ TOOTHPASTE DRAWS WRATH OF CONGRESSMEN, Los Angeles Times, Business; Part 4; Page 10; Column 1; Financial Desk, December 23, 1988

Now, does anyone know if it’s legal to post the text of these articles on the web or if anyone will complain if I make them available in a shared folder for education purposes?


#20

Originally posted by Taiwan Student:

quote[quote]Now, does anyone know if it's legal to post the text of these articles on the web[/quote] It is not legal unless the materials are in the public domain or you own the copyright. In this case, the answer to those questions is no.
quote[quote]or if anyone will complain if I make them available in a shared folder for education purposes?[/quote] If you want to post a link to the material, that's fine with me -- but I obviously don't speak for the newspapers in question.