This segment from Jaw Shaw-kong’s Situation Room reflects my experience of contemporary usage. You will note that the two older Chinese nationalists (Jaw and Fei) use ‘dalu’ almost exclusively. Shen Fu-hsiung (former DPP very light green) says ‘Zhonguo’. Kao Chia-yu (DPP, light green) says Zhongguo. Ching Nai-ching (born 1967 blue 49er) mainly uses ‘Zhonggguo’.
But context is also important. Even Jaw uses ‘Zhongguo’ at least once in the context of discussing US-China relations where the focal point may be the US’s perspective.
In any event, I think this segment supports my proposition: among educated people, ‘dalu’ is fading and is mainly used by older Chinese nationalists.
The TV station seems to use ‘Zhongguo dalu’, but TVBS is fairly blue. Sanli and FTV clearly say ‘Zhongguo’ exclusively as a matter of editorial policy.
It’d be interesting to get some big data analysis of this usage, plotted over time, much like Samuel Moyn did in plotting the use of the term “human rights.”
There is zero reason to use Da Lu unless trying to pander to China (PRC/CCP). We are clearly already past this.
If one wants to say da lu now, I will ask them if they include Alaska in the mainland US. For shipping logistics, obviously.
Sadly, more and more, many Google things are becoming more China centric. Not jsut searches, but translations are more and more using China terms not taiwanese terms even with traditional. I have seen numerous people discussing this online as well, it seems pretty noticeable.
I have tragically fallen on my own sword by google searching for all four terms this morning.
Do you have examples of ‘Taiwanese terms’ I though nearly all of these were just vocabulary preferences where certain terms are used more frequently locally, like the way Australians always talk about throwing shrimps on the barbie: but I didn’t think that made shrimp an ‘Australian term’ although perhaps you could say that ‘barbie’ was, arguably.
I don’t know much Chinese myself mind, so speaking from a position of ignorance.
I find it annoying sometimes where automatic spell checks increasingly highlight correct English spellings as incorrect. Then you wind up second guessing yourself and thinking you are wrong. It’s like spelling gaslighting. For example litre versus liter. It is highlighting the American alternative correct spelling as wrong on my computer now. Like they can’t put all the correct spellings into the spell check or something.
You should be able to set your language preferences to British English.
I’ve never been to Australia, but my one Australian friend corrected me, in no uncertain terms and Paul Hogan not withstanding, that the proper term in Australia is “prawn.” For China vs Taiwan vocab, just to keep it on topic, I can think of bicycle and maybe video, potato, and taxi offhand. My Chinese is intermediate at best, though, and I have never been to China.
I doubt that would make the American alternative spelling - Liter - no longer get highlighted as ‘incorrect’ on Formosa, as I type it in google chrome.
Exactly. Similarly just because everyone in Ireland routinely greets each other with the phrase “top of the morning to you” that doesn’t make any of those words ‘top’ ‘of’ ‘the’ etc 'Irish terms’
Hmm I am pretty sure all of those are English words too. I am on the lookout for these ‘Taiwanese Terms’, which are more Taiwanese than say ‘the’ is Irish.
For example 脚踏车 vs 自行车 for bicycle. But it’s early here and I’m still on my first cup of coffee and I’m American, so I may be missing your meaning. Neither US nor UK spellings are flagged for me on Forumosa. If your computer is the issue, maybe this would help:
You mean 腳踏車 - not sure but I think those are the characters - which is often given as the Taiwanese Mandarin term in contrast to 自行車 as the Chinese Mandarin term. Now here is the thing: with most of these vocab pairs I find that both are actually used both in Taiwan and in China. So I wonder is this like saying that the phrase ‘how’s it going’ is an ‘Irish term’? Or that ‘prawn’ is an ‘Australian term’?
Edit: I am also wondering now if both 腳 and 脚 are correct
I’m on an apple right now, but actually I use like four different devices. But anyway, I kind of wonder why any of them should be highlighting an English spelling that is correct as incorrect regardless of what language setting though. Like why make the effort to highlight errors that don’t exist. Why not stick to just highlighting spellings that are actually wrong.
See here’s the thing. In my experience 土豆 in Taipei Taiwan and in Shenzhen China means potato. 花生 is peanut. 馬鈴薯 is also potato, and people say that a little more frequently in Taipei and a little less in Shenzhen. So I have a hard time seeing any of these three example words as somehow ‘Taiwanese terms’. It’s like yea it’s Chinese, like you can call it another word if you like but that’s like saying ‘the’ is ‘Irish’.
Maybe some people say土豆 for peanut in Taiwan as you suggest, I never happened to encounter that. I’m just googling it now and they are saying that Minnan speakers do use 土豆 for peanut. I always thought that was potato though.
There is a long list of differences in many areas.
The list does not seem to cover the many examples of Taiwanese (language) used in Taiwanese Mandarin. Here are three:
cuò (usually pronounced cu) ‘house’
xiǎoquèxìng ‘joy in little things in life’
gàng guī ‘to fail to do s.t.’
wūliūliū ‘black and shiny’
There are many others. Chinese disinformation is often detected because of PRC usages. This was a prominent example. Note the use of “hui bao” (report, 彙報) as well as the more subtle discussion of terms that suggest Leninst party primacy.
1. Mainland China (大陸, dàlù): This term is widely used in everyday language in Taiwan to refer to the area governed by the People’s Republic of China, excluding Taiwan. It implies a geographical rather than political definition, subtly supporting the perspective of Taiwan as distinct from the PRC.
But…
Among pro-independence supporters in Taiwan, using “China” to refer exclusively to the PRC is common, emphasizing the sovereignty and separate identity of Taiwan.
and
Younger generations in Taiwan who have grown up identifying primarily or exclusively as Taiwanese are more likely to see and refer to the PRC as simply “China,” reinforcing the concept of two separate entities.
This seems like a reasonably accurate description of the current state of play.
I remember this was also a thing when folks analyzed videos of cops banging up protestors in HK. Even though the cops spoke Cantoneses, some terms marked them as being from the Guangdong and not from HK.
Nice thanks, thats interesting I will give it a peruse.
I noticed that. Straight off that bat that list looks misleading to me. First one I looked at is 冰淇淋 as the Chinese term used in China. Then 霜淇淋 is the first term used in Taiwan. I am like really? 霜淇淋? I have never heard that as the Taiwan term for ice cream. So I ask my kid hey how do you say ice cream in Chinese? He is like 冰淇淋 I’m like, any other words? He is like, no, it’s 冰淇淋. I am like well how about 霜淇淋 and he is like, oh yea you can say that too. I am like what exactly is 霜淇淋? Is it a particular type of ice cream? He is like ‘I don’t know’. So he is like eleven years old a native speaker has lived in Taiwan all his life and he has heard of 霜淇淋 but isn’t sure what it is. Why is this list then presenting it as the first term for ice cream used in Taiwan. 冰淇淋 is one of the very first words you learn when learning Chinese anywhere including in Taiwan. 霜淇淋 is a not very frequently used word that I am only encountering years later because I am reading a page about terms that are used in Taiwan. Maybe the Chinese misinformers are finding little used alternative vocabularies used in Taiwan and presenting them as being used more sort of constructing Taiwanese Mandarin as having a heavier use of characteristic and unique words?
