Male bashing in the media

I actually discovered it when I was looking on my works HR program to request leaves and such. It tells me how many sick days I have, vacation days, one box I get a 0 was the Menstruation leave category. And I actually tried to request it just to see what happens :sweat_smile: and it doesn’t let me do it. I asked HR and she said women legally get 3 a year in addition to sick leave men gets. So from her, it would seem that women get 3 additional days, but i guess men don’t menstruate so that’s not a thing we can request unless maybe it’s used for taking care of a wife or significant other thats menstruating. I found this interesting because it seems that Taiwan is actually very progressive in this new law adopted in 2013.

It seems that the subject of paid menstruation leave is dividing feminist and others alike. Some feminist are for it, some seem to say it’s bad for women for various reasons.

Act for Gender Equality in Employment

I’m with Icon on this one. A website with incomplete and inaccurate information can be worse than no website at all. (Plus, even if you read Chinese, so many of the sites are badly designed anyway.)

The MOJ’s law database is what they should aim for in terms of navigability: when you have an item that’s been translated, you can switch languages at the touch of a button instead of having to figure out what the title would probably be in the other language and then figure out what part of the site they buried it in, which is how it is for most websites. Of course many items there are poorly translated and/or inconsistent with each other, so there’s still room for improvement.

I do agree that people who want to stay in Taiwan long-term should make more than a nominal effort to integrate.

It is somehow similar to maternity leave. Pregnancy and delivery surely make women incompetent during those periods. The degree may depend on job types but maybe at least for 3 months per one pregnancy. Due to that, many women who got professional jobs in early days didn’t have children (nearly equal to being unmarried) to equally compete with men. It is still a part of reasons many companies prefer men. If men would take mandatory parental leave with the same length of women’s maternity leave, since maternity leave is biologically mandatory to women, companies might think men and women are equal.

At this moment, I don’t have definite opinion on Menstruation leave, whether is should be separately given to women in addition to sick leave.

So is this forum itself part of the patriarchy? I mean i know there’s no requirement for us to say if we are male or female when we join right @tempogain But it’s pretty clear this forum is overwhelmingly dominant in male posters. While all the same time, women get a women’s only section forum while men don’t. I’d say maybe that’s a bit sexist itself and some evidence of what I’m saying.

So should forumosa push for a 50/50 split?

Should we force women to join

Also I would say men on average post more than women here also. Maybe we should also make a max amount a man can post or force women to post more?

Why do women get their own forum? And why don’t men get one?

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We already have a thread for that.

Andrew, we cannot take sick leave without getting points off our evaluation. And this is the gummit. I expect that in a private enterprise you take off for those days, you’ll be fired. The only sickness they get rap for firing people is cancer.

A Formosan’s wife here got pregnant. Her boss asked her why, and suggested she should get an abortion. This was to a married woman, in a typical office job, no life or death career chouce for anyone in the West. Bosses here in majority have very weird thinking…

No. It should be a cause for divorce, and if you guys insist, we can keep the civil suits. But jail is not the place for adulterers, nor is stoning/caning/or any other State sponsored “punishment” or retaliation.

Too much manipulation, too many people easily duped. Otello and all that jazz. Too risky and easily misunderstood/manipulated.

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Meaning blue collars alos sign blindfold, or only white collars?

He is right though in terms that Chinese version rules, but it is quite upsetting there is no colllorary that a proper lingua franca -English for example- version can be provided. In that case, we go with what locals do and say: they say contracts in general are useless because most go against labor laws.

By that rule, then, marriage contracts should be void when the foreign spouse is duped. When your rights and limitations are not explained before you make the choice to move to Taiwan, when you are brought with lies and once here, held hostage because of your children, could we then argue that is the case for a broken contract?

Several of my friends had well paying jobs and a high standard of living in their own countries. Their spouses assured them Taiwan was a developed country, with plenty of opportunities for work, insisted their lives would be better here, so they leave everything and come with their partner, only to realize that as a housewife for exmaple, they cannot meet minimun erquirements for permanent residency, for example, nor gain custody if they do not have enough income, for starters, as their income was counted as their husband’s. If there was enough information out there about conditions here, fair enough, you did not make your research, but are if they are not being transparent, if your spouse has an agenda, can you argue that in the law?

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I might be wrong, but what Andrew says might be that you bring up too much individual cases. Though the statistics are cumulative of individual cases, and I think we need to care individual cases as well as statistics, we may need to look statistics a bit more when talking on gender issues or any other social issues.

Pregnancy is not, but many of other cases you brought up could be reversed on men and women. I think even if one gender is the majority of those who suffer from an issue, persons with the other gender suffering from the same issue should be included as well.

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Yeah, and I knew a kid in school who ate dirt.:roll_eyes:

It’s patently illegal to fire anyone for taking government-mandated sick days.
If one’s employer really does take points off one’s eval for taking legal sick days, well, sucks to be you.
Get a real job.

There’s plenty of discrimination against women in the corporate world, but it’s mostly subtle stuff.

Those who come under ESA Art. 46 Par. 1 Subpar. 8 to 11 (white collar usually refers to Subpar. 1 to 6) need to have certain information presented in a foreign language (though the law doesn’t actually require it to be their own language, just the “official” language of their country).

Assuming you’re under Subpar. 1 to 6, that rule doesn’t apply to you. There’s always the question of “intent”, but I think you would need a very sympathetic judge to get past the “you’re a translator so you should know what it means” argument.

@Politbureau’s earlier complaint that marriage “contracts” don’t exist ergo people don’t know the rules is not exatly true, as marriage is regulated by the Civil Code.

If they classify you as a civil servant, then you’re supposed to get same entitlement for menstrual leave, but subject to this proviso (Art. 2 Par. 2 to 3):

The Act is applicable to civil servants, educational personnel and military personnel, provided that, Articles 33, 34 [i.e. complaints] and 38 [i.e. penalties – though Art. 14 has no penalty anyway] of the Act shall not be applicable.

Complaints, remedies and processing procedures for civil servants, educational personnel and military personnel shall be handled in accordance with respective statutes and regulations governing personnel matters.

“Why do men get bashed for no reason these days?” If it happens for no reason, then it makes no sense to ask “why?”, but this thread is making me wonder if we don’t deserve to be bashed. In fact, it’s making me want to bash myself.

All legal contracts are regulated by Civil Code. That doesn’t explain why the marriage contract is the only one not available in written form so the contracting parties clearly understand what they’re getting themselves into.

How much detail do you want?

“Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone’s knee or try to steal a kiss,”

“Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or clumsily, is not - and nor is men being gentlemanly a chauvinist attack.”

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Good god, what clown translated that?

I’m not really fighting this because well it really proves my point, at a certain level “correcting” as you say gender equality with rules and laws becomes rather discriminatory. We can pave way with the law to makes sure as least legally, no matter who you are, you have the same legal rights. Obviously we are not an egalitarian society, so I might be better off than the average Taiwanese because I had an education abroad and there will be of course cases of unfairness to say. But there’s nothing stopping a average Taiwanese in being able to say learn English on his own or save up and go to college abroad. Is it harder and not really fair I’m just ahead of someone because I’m born into one family and situation and in the current year? Not really but legally me and other Taiwanese have the same right. I did my military conscription just as them. I know many who use dual citizenship to fly in and out. I did the one thing my country asks of me in return, and I pointed out it’s rather hypocritical of women in Taiwan saying its not fair when men have been doing military conscription since my fathers time. He was stationed at one of those islands close to the mainland and the situation was different than. Also I think it was close to 2 years men had to do back then.

And I’m not really going to fight a committee that’s obviously hypocritical and basically proves itself worthless.

I just don’t think modern main stream feminism is helping or even bringing up much good points and fighting for the right things these days. That’s not to say there are real womens issues in the world. Obviously like I pointed out women in saudi arabia have it rough. But in the west, and even in taiwan, things for women in 2018 are actually more and more in favor of them in many cases. And I think i’ve even made some good points of many areas where men are in a worse position than women now. I’m not sure I would say this even 10-15 years ago. But in 2018, I actually believe things overall are very much equal, and there are some outliers of situation where women are in a better position in.

We can pave the way with the law, but what if the road is so unevenly potholed that we need to pave more on one side than the other? Using the same amount of asphalt on both sides would cause an uneven result, and if this road is the legal/administrative system itself, then having an uneven road means the goal of ensuring everyone legally has the same rights is not met.

People usually say proof is in the pudding, not the number of cooks in the kitchen or their demographics. Have the committees failed to get results or been unfair to men? (I haven’t looked into it. Maybe Hsinhai knows.)


Here’s another one for you.

Maternity leave: 56 days
Paternity leave: 5 days (formerly 3)

Is that fair? :ponder:

Nope, I’ve always advocated for more. I don’t think I’ve brought it up on this thread. But I think it’s just as important for the child for both parents to be able to be there for them.