I’ve been thinking for a while that, while I like the greater convenience and safety of a scooter compared to a motorcycle, I don’t like the lower control and lower fuel economy of the CV automatic transmission.
So, are there any manual transmission 4-stroke scooters out there (here, in Taiwan)?
Vespa’s are manual, and here, but they carry a classic-cool price premium and they are 2-stroke, not good for fuel economy.
I think the Indians make a 4-stroke version (Bajaj?) and I’ve seen one here, but only one so they probably weren’t an official import. Have 4-stroke manual Vespas been made/imported in TW?
Any others? Maybe some of the older, angular Honda’s? (I can’t find much on the web about them)
C90’s, good though they are, are only sort-of-scooters (I think Americans may call them scooters, though) and only sort-of-manual, so not really what I’m on about.
I actually prefer the not so boy racer-ish looks of the original spec bike. Its perhaps the closest you’ll find to a manual scooter I think.
I would consider one of the old spec bikes myself if I didn’t think people would throw empty beer bottles at me when I rode past. I love the things!
Do you mean like a Thai style Honda Wave? Semi auto heal and toe shifting? For me that gives a higher level o control than those Vespas where you have to twist the whole left handlebar/clutch assembly.
I’m sure you could get one for not much if you knew where to look. Sadly I don’t.
I used to love my similar bike in Indonesia, loads more control, bigger wheels, still have storage convenience, more power - my 125 semi was faster than the 150 automatics here, plus could ride the bumps
I would guess you need to get over to SE asia, where the men are still men and dont ride around on girls scooters and try to import one - no idea how to though, ive been thinking of doing the same
Well, some machines I wasn’t aware of, thanks, but, like I wrote in the original post
“C90’s, good though they are, are only sort-of-scooters (I think Americans may call them scooters, though) and only sort-of-manual, so not really what I’m on about.”
The Honda C90, which I take the Wow-Wow (grits teeth and continues) to be a semi-clone of, (and the other machines to be the same basic configuration) is of course a classic, but I’m not convinced the shape is very much more convenient or much safer (though a bit) than a standard motorcyle, and I don’t really like the centrifugal clutch, though its better than a CVT.
The suspension/ride is probably better than a scooters, though, so its a good compromise, just not the particular compromise I was thinking of.
[quote=“marboulette”]The machines in the above pictures are not manual. They are semi-automatic. There are no manual 4 strokes scooters here, AFAIK. Never seen one.
marboulette[/quote]
I think you’re right Marboulette, but I’ve been wondering about these (considering getting one for my wife). What exactly does “semi-automatic” mean? I’ve seen them around and looks like they have no clutch, but I’ve noticed riders shifting gears. Is it just that they have an automatic clutch?
I think that’s pretty much it. You can come to a complete stop in any gear and the bike will not stall. The auto clutch disengages and the bike idles normally. When you take off, the clutch engages automatically. Hence why it’s called semi-automatic. Auto clutch but manual gears. Shifting up works well with these bikes, but down shifting is not very smooth AT ALL, especially if you down shift too early. Similar to letting the clutch lever/pedal go way too fast on a manual car/bike. You pretty much have to avoid down shifting until you either go much slower than the gear ratio you want to down shift to, or down shift once you come to a complete stop. You sometimes need to down shift going up hill, but it’s rough nonetheless. It takes a bit of getting used to. They are pretty solid, though, and low maintenance compared with automatic scooters.
marboulette
[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]
I think you’re right Marboulette, but I’ve been wondering about these (considering getting one for my wife). What exactly does “semi-automatic” mean? I’ve seen them around and looks like they have no clutch, but I’ve noticed riders shifting gears. Is it just that they have an automatic clutch?
[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”][quote=“marboulette”]The machines in the above pictures are not manual. They are semi-automatic. There are no manual 4 strokes scooters here, AFAIK. Never seen one.
marboulette[/quote]
I think you’re right Marboulette, but I’ve been wondering about these (considering getting one for my wife). What exactly does “semi-automatic” mean? I’ve seen them around and looks like they have no clutch, but I’ve noticed riders shifting gears. Is it just that they have an automatic clutch?
cheers,
DB[/quote]
Thats right. Its a centrifugal clutch, so it engages as the revs rise a bit above idle, and vice versa.
I don’t like them as much as a “pure” manual because when I’m tooling along at low revs the clutch hunts in and out, but I guess that’s my bad riding technique and I should fix it. The other downside is (at least with the original Honda step-through 3-speed) you dont get so many gears, but I think they’d still be more economical than a CVT.
Its a long time since I’ve ridden one and I can’t remember for sure if you can “coast” with one of these (my favorite gear) but I don’t see why not, in fact it should be easier, assuming there isn’t still significant clutch drag when its nominally disengaged, as there is with most CVT’s at idle.
That wouldn’t be a consideration for most people anyway since coasting is thought to be wicked/stupid/blasphemy/illegal.
On the semi auto scooter bikes like the Honda Wave (called Innova in Europe) you can blip to throttle do downshift smoothly at pace just like on a manual clutch bike. The clutch is inbuilt into the gear pedal, it disengages the drive when it’s fully depressed on upshifts and downshifts.
I know in Thailand and the Pilos there are a lot of bikes like that around with a clutch lever on the bar. I think just by watching who rides them they are cheaper than the semi auto scooter bikes. A quick look on google tells me two models are the Honda Sonic 125 and Suzuki Raider 125. You can see them if you follow this link. It’s difficult to find a photo taken from the left but these bikes both have manual clutch levers on the bar:
