It’s my pleasure. Just a reminder: I am only on Forumosa rather infrequently. Should you post a question that I don’t reply to, you can always drop me an e-mail and I will come and check it out.
Could one of you expert swimmers please explain this diving technique ? Very impressive waterskills.
This gets my brain working again… I think.
let’s start off with 100m FS. If you are an ex-swimmer (or some kind of ex-swimmer), doing 100m on 1:30 repeats, let’s say 5100 on 1:30. This means that you swim for 100m (with turns) and touch the wall at 1:10-1:20 and puss off at 1:30. This is a bloody hard set for a non-ex swimmer or some sort. If you were to do this set with 10100 on 1:30, then you will be stuffed.
I normally like to spend with swimmer a few sessions so i can see the techniques, timing, stroke style and the whole shebang before writting up a program. If you want to compete, then work on consistency rather than quantity. Swim a 1500m straight is not going to get you anywhere.
It’s too late for me for get into the technical side of swimming, but you can email me for more questions.
Happy swimming.
[quote=“section61”]This gets my brain working again… I think.
let’s start off with 100m FS. If you are an ex-swimmer (or some kind of ex-swimmer), doing 100m on 1:30 repeats, let’s say 5100 on 1:30. This means that you swim for 100m (with turns) and touch the wall at 1:10-1:20 and puss off at 1:30. This is a bloody hard set for a non-ex swimmer or some sort. If you were to do this set with 10100 on 1:30, then you will be stuffed.
I normally like to spend with swimmer a few sessions so i can see the techniques, timing, stroke style and the whole shebang before writting up a program. If you want to compete, then work on consistency rather than quantity. Swim a 1500m straight is not going to get you anywhere.
It’s too late for me for get into the technical side of swimming, but you can email me for more questions.
Happy swimming.[/quote]
I think it would be awesome to enter the 50m and 400m freestyle races. I know this sounds crazy but I would consider it a great accomplishment to be able to pull off decent performances in such different events. For my age group last year, 1st place for 50m was about 30 seconds and 1st place for 400m was about 6 minutes. I’ve been doing some repeats but in a 25m pool and for short distances (100m, 50m and even 25m!). Regarding the 1500m swim, well I’m not a young guy anymore and I need to watch the injuries. Also, when I was running I always liked the 5k run the best and this swim feels like that to me in some ways (I know I compared it to 10k before but I don’t feel that was accurate).
I’m still not at a 50m pool yet. I’ll write about my experiences when that happens.
Well, I finally got to a 50m pool over the long tomb sweeping weekend. I did the 50m in 34 seconds. This was without a dive, without any heat in the water to speak of (it was an outside pool that is unheated and it was freezing!), and without any strategy doing the lap when I was being timed (I think I would hold off a bit for the first 15-20m the next time because I just ran out of steam at the end). I believe I could bring that down to around 32 seconds with a bit a practice, better strategy and a dive to start me going.
What else should I do to try to get that down all the way to 30 seconds? How much difference would a dive at the start make (this wasn’t an option because there were signs all over warning against it)? Should I also do weights?
I also did a 400m swim but my time on that was terrible. I don’t think I want to enter that event!
[quote=“marasan”]Well, I finally got to a 50m pool over the long tomb sweeping weekend. I did the 50m in 34 seconds. This was without a dive, without any heat in the water to speak of (it was an outside pool that is unheated and it was freezing!), and without any strategy doing the lap when I was being timed (I think I would hold off a bit for the first 15-20m the next time because I just ran out of steam at the end). I believe I could bring that down to around 32 seconds with a bit a practice, better strategy and a dive to start me going.
What else should I do to try to get that down all the way to 30 seconds? How much difference would a dive at the start make (this wasn’t an option because there were signs all over warning against it)? Should I also do weights?
I also did a 400m swim but my time on that was terrible. I don’t think I want to enter that event![/quote]
Subtract about 1.5 seconds for a dive. 34 seconds from a push off is not too shabby in freezing water with, I suspect, no warm up.Way to go!
Should you do weights? A most emphatic, YES! Not only will the increased strength improve your speed, but dry land training is also necessary to prevent injury. However, you need to do sprint-freestyle-specific dry land training. You will need access to a gym. Take a look at Jason Lezak’s program. (If you remember, it was Jason Lezak who swam the devastatingly fast anchor leg of the 4x100 freestyle relay at the Beijing Olympics. If it weren’t for him Phelps wouldn’t have got his eighth gold). This should give you an idea of where to start. Remember to start slowly and mix it up. You don’t want to injure yourself in the gym. Also, don’t forget that however important dry land training is, your first priority is still pool training. It might sound like I am contradicting what I just said, but I just put it in as a caution so that you don’t over prioritize weight training at the expense of pool training.
You also need to do event specific training in the pool. If you are training for the 50, then you need to race a 50 at least once a week. By race, I mean an ALL-OUT, timed effort (preferably from the blocks). Preferably also, you will have someone timing you and, if not filming you, at least watching you. This way you can evaluate yourself and note areas that need improvement. Do this once a week and try to bring you time down. You need to train your starts and turns just like you need to train your stroke.
As far as strategy for the 50 goes… my only strategy is whether to take one breath or two (none would be better but I would more than likely blackout if I did that). There is no holding back in the 50. It is an all-out, no holds barred, lung busting, superhuman, controlled effort. Fast sprinters are all big kickers too, so don’t forget to train your kick.
Hope this helps,
bigsyd
[quote=“bigsyd”][quote=“marasan”]Well, I finally got to a 50m pool over the long tomb sweeping weekend. I did the 50m in 34 seconds. This was without a dive, without any heat in the water to speak of (it was an outside pool that is unheated and it was freezing!), and without any strategy doing the lap when I was being timed (I think I would hold off a bit for the first 15-20m the next time because I just ran out of steam at the end). I believe I could bring that down to around 32 seconds with a bit a practice, better strategy and a dive to start me going.
What else should I do to try to get that down all the way to 30 seconds? How much difference would a dive at the start make (this wasn’t an option because there were signs all over warning against it)? Should I also do weights?
I also did a 400m swim but my time on that was terrible. I don’t think I want to enter that event![/quote]
Subtract about 1.5 seconds for a dive. 34 seconds from a push off is not too shabby in freezing water with, I suspect, no warm up.Way to go!
Should you do weights? A most emphatic, YES! Not only will the increased strength improve your speed, but dry land training is also necessary to prevent injury. However, you need to do sprint-freestyle-specific dry land training. You will need access to a gym. Take a look at Jason Lezak’s program. (If you remember, it was Jason Lezak who swam the devastatingly fast anchor leg of the 4x100 freestyle relay at the Beijing Olympics. If it weren’t for him Phelps wouldn’t have got his eighth gold). This should give you an idea of where to start. Remember to start slowly and mix it up. You don’t want to injure yourself in the gym. Also, don’t forget that however important dry land training is, your first priority is still pool training. It might sound like I am contradicting what I just said, but I just put it in as a caution so that you don’t over prioritize weight training at the expense of pool training.
You also need to do event specific training in the pool. If you are training for the 50, then you need to race a 50 at least once a week. By race, I mean an ALL-OUT, timed effort (preferably from the blocks). Preferably also, you will have someone timing you and, if not filming you, at least watching you. This way you can evaluate yourself and note areas that need improvement. Do this once a week and try to bring you time down. You need to train your starts and turns just like you need to train your stroke.
As far as strategy for the 50 goes… my only strategy is whether to take one breath or two (none would be better but I would more than likely blackout if I did that). There is no holding back in the 50. It is an all-out, no holds barred, lung busting, superhuman, controlled effort. Fast sprinters are all big kickers too, so don’t forget to train your kick.
Hope this helps,
bigsyd[/quote]
Thanks great information, bigsyd! I was actually a bit discouraged after my 50m time but you made me feel better. I did try to warm up with a slow 100m swim, but then in waiting for my heart to slow completely down before the timed 50m, I cooled down again. I hope the weather warms up soon. I actually did start on weights just recently, but mostly to do something different to avoid possible injury, rather than really as a way to improve my swimming. But with my newfound interest in the sport in mind, I did shoulders and back mostly. I’ll check out the link you gave me and see if my approach was right or wrong. And that’s a great tip on the kick. I instinctively can tell this is important for the sprints. Finally, one or two breaths? I think I could do 25m with one breath but definitely not 50m! I really think warmer weather will help in this regard because cold water works against any attempt to not breathe!
I’m noticing a bit of an improvement in my 100m intervals with more hip rotation. I think there are two reasons for this
a) The serape effect as discussed in the video below.
b) Better high elbow with my left arm. I’ve been having trouble with getting a good high elbow catch with my left arm. I discovered not long ago that that moving my hip out of the way (that’s the best way I can describe it) helps with getting my left elbow up, or more precisely, with keeping my left elbow up while my hand drops before my pull.
I’m going to have a timed 1500m swim this week. I hope this also transfers to a better overall time.
@bigsyd, are you still around?
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Hi @marasan, I’m still in Taiwan and still swimming, although haven’t been around this forum for a long time.
If your stroke is uneven, it might be because you only breathe to one side. One good way to even it out is to practice bilateral breathing. Another way is to swim with a center mount snorkel. There are several good articles on the Internet about this. Google: why it is important to breathe bilaterally in swimming. You could also Google: breathing to the non-dominant side in swimming. The long and the short of it is, any imbalances in your stroke are going to slow you down. If you have one side that is stronger than the other or one elbow that is higher than the other, chances are you will alternately speed up and slow down which will be exhausting in the long run. Kind of like running with a limp.
Hope this is helpful.
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You’re absolutely correct in pointing to the real source of my problem. But here are some observations:
a) Sun Yang swims most of his 1500m race breathing about 95% to his dominant side. (He does a very cool breathing on every stroke going into and out of the wall which I mean to try soon.) I also see Phelps breathing to his dominant side more often than not, and also with a limping style that many seem to be using now. So it’s hard for me to sometimes find the motivation to work on bilateral breathing.
b) But I nevertheless do work on bilateral breathing.
Here are my last two swims:
25m pool. 10 x 100m. 1’35"@2’30" (I did about 6 or 7 intervals bilateral breathing every other lap)
25m pool. 15x100m 1’37"@2’30" (about 8 or 9 intervals doing bilateral breathing every other lap)
Even with bilateral breathing, I find myself very stiff rotating my hips to the right.
Ideally, I will someday get down bilateral breathing (it’s still a struggle for me) AND good hip rotation to both sides. I imagine when I’m breathing to my non-dominant side I am getting good hip rotation.
I’ll look for a center mount snorkel. And I’ll keep on working on this. Good hearing from you again. I imagine you’re still kicking everyone’s butts at the races. Maybe I’ll enter one next year.
Edit: I bet some of these guys (Sun Yang and Phelps) do more bilateral breathing when training, but then revert to mostly dominant side breathing during races. I’ve heard Josh Amberger (a triathlete) in the video above does this.
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Can confirm 
Train bilateral (unless doing sprint work late in the season) and race dominant side. There are also drills, like single-arm freestyle, which can be done to really focus in on the problem arm.
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How are your arms doing? LONG ago when I was on a team, first season of training I didn’t breathe bilaterally - and my arms had visibly different muscle development. In later seasons I got it sorted out, and the arms were more even.
Do you do a dolphin kick successfully off the wall? That wasn’t taught when I learned. Every so often I try to add it to my routine, but I haven’t yet found a way to make it work. It’s probably not unrelated that my occasional efforts at butterfly quickly lead to “Nope, that hurts in a scary way!”, even though I was perfectly competent at it as teen.
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They seem to be pretty even. My left arm (my problem arm with a bad high elbow pull) has always been a bit stronger, though, for some weird reason.
My dolphin kick is bad. But it’s something I’ve been working on as well recently. I always add two or three now each time I push off the wall. This is something I started in the last month or so. Still working on it. There are some good instructional videos on YouTube. It’s more of a whipping motion starting at the hips (some say starting at the chest) and I think most struggle with this aspect of it. My very limber eight-year-old son already has a nice looking dolphin kick after about the same amount of practice.
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Agreed.
For years, I always breathed to the right. It’s only been relatively recently that I started to train bilaterally. At first, it was exhausting breathing to the left. I felt I wasn’t getting enough air and it messed up my rhythm. It’s taken a while, but now I am almost as comfortable breathing to the left as I am to the right. However, whenever I race or go for time, I revert back to the right.
Some things that helped me: 1. Remembering to keep my head down (for some reason or other I would always lift my head to breathe to the left). Breathing towards the armpit is another good way of visualizing this.
2. Remembering that the hips should lead the rotation and the head should follow
3. Extending my right arm further and waiting until almost full extension before initiating rotation
Initially, I forced myself to do whole sessions breathing to the left only. More recently, I try and do half and half.
The single arm freestyle (with resting arm at your side) drill is very helpful for learning rotation to your weak side. I can’t find a really good video of it but here is a semi-decent one.
https://youtu.be/80-7b9Io95w
Learning to breathe bilaterally has strengthened my weaker arm and also helped with a crossover/scissor kick that I have always had since I was a kid.
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I’m seeing an exactly opposite action here (fast forward a bit to 0:25 for the resting arm to your side example). Which do you recommend?
How about you, @fifieldt? How do you like to do the drill?
In the video I posted, the swimmer breathes to the resting side. I usually do it like this because it makes you work hard to swing at the hips. And you really have to rotate those hips hard to keep going forward and not to sink. In fact, the person who recommended this drill to me said to try to leave the kick out of it altogether and propel yourself forward with your pull and hip rotation only. You really have to keep your head down in this drill or you are going to sink quick. With your arm helpless at your side, there is nothing to stabilize you and any lifting of the head is magnified tenfold. And if you want to get decent air, you have to rotate hard. I like to do it as follows: 25m of right arm at side, pulling with the left and breathing to the right followed by 25m of full stroke. Then 25m of left arm at side, pulling with right and breathing to the left, followed by 25m of full stroke. You will find, when you switch to the full stroke, you swim much more smoothly.
I like the drill in the video you posted, too. Perhaps the emphasis is different. The emphasis here seems to be on rotating to the opposite side so you can get the shoulder in a better position for a more effective catch and it also seems to help with the timing of the catch and kick. It’s more of a refinement for accomplished swimmers whereas the drill I posted is perhaps more of a beginner drill. Not sure if that make sense. I am trying to make sense of it myself. At any rate, I look forward to trying out the drill you posted. 
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I look forward to trying both the drills this weekend. I’'m going to see where I’m at with the 1500m distance tomorrow then work on some drills over the weekend. I focused on cycling for about 7 months and so I’m just getting back into things with the swimming. I’m very much enjoying the focus back onto swimming and I’m determined to reach some goals. PR’s for 1500m and 1000m, and also for a 1500m open water swim are a few of them.
Y’all are making me paranoid about my swimming style … I dunno, my stroke feels mostly good. I wonder how deluded I am about that?
I did a length of backstroke for the first time in years yesterday. Huh. That was hard - and my heart rate was, to my surprise, quite a bit higher than it normally is after a what-currently-passes-for-a-sprint freestyle length (depending on how accurate the Apple Watch really is in the water). It wasn’t hard in a “good workout” way, but in a “Wow I’m splashing a lot and not getting much done” way.
Inquiry: how much do I “miss out on” in health terms by doing almost entirely freestyle and kick? One knee is messed up enough that breast stroke always feels dumb (i.e. I know I “should” kick a lot better than I’m doing, but I also know doing so would be a bad idea); occasional efforts at butterfly result in “Nope, I’m gonna listen when my back screams at me like that”; and backstroke, well, I’ve never liked it anyway. Drills … until reading this thread in the past couple of days, it hadn’t even occurred to me to do drills.
It does amuse me that I walk tons, cycle and swim and lift weights quite a bit, and I can still do other types of exercise - like backstroke - and discover yet another muscle group that has apparently not had a workout in years.
Slightly out-there suggestion: no coach has looked at my swimming since the 1980s, and I’d like to work with one for a session or two - mainly for pointers or suggestions (flip turns are probably the main area I could improve). Is there some kind of way for a few of us to get together and hire an English-speaking coach for a few hours?
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@bigsyd is down south. I just asked a female competitive swimmer from the Caribbean. Don’t know if she’s still in Taiwan. I can’t think of anyone else. There’s a place that does swim analysis using an indoor continuous pool. I’ll post that information a bit later.
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I can’t locate the website. They’re associated with this place (just a few doors down in the same alley in Neihu):
If they’re still offering the service, they take a video and do an analysis. Several sessions. I never did it, though. I might take a video and send it to an outfit like Effortless Swimming in Australia for an analysis. That would interest me more.
Still haven’t heard from the swimmer.