Military Conscription for Overseas Chinese?

[Wilz95]

Thanks for your question

Well obviously i have a lot of reason

The real reason however is because i want to have more “action” in my life and i also would like to have “soldier status”.

About action , let me explain with example. Isn’t it challenging to jump from Helicopter or jump from an aeroplane (maybe you will say i have watched too much movies but i am sure military could really give me that kind of action)

And what i meant by Soldier status is that to me personally there is a sense of achievement , something that could give me thing to be proud of in future regardless any rank given to me.

Of course i could go on and on and on but like i stated above , the main reason is perhaps that two

[Andrew0409]

From what I heard, Taiwan’s military is pretty actionless. We dont have a budget for the military for you to jump out of helos and shoot and bunch of ammo. US military is what you want if you want action and see combat lol

[Wilz95]

Lol i have heard about that as well though (about underbudget things) but unfortunately i do not have enough budget to go to America that is why if i could be accepted into Taiwan’s military i already happy

[yyy]

TL/DR version: tempogain is probably right.

The link to the Nationality Act at the MOI’s website isn’t working for me (typical Taiwan government website!), but I’ve just checked the MOJ’s database and found it, plus something interesting.

http://law.moj.gov.tw/Eng/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?PCode=D0040005

Conscription Regulations for Naturalized Aliens & Returning Overseas Chinese
Article 1
These Regulations are duly enacted in accordance with Article 23 of the Conscription Law.

(Actually the official translation of “兵役法施行法” is “The Enforcement Act of Act of Military Service System”, not “Conscription Law”.)

Article 3
A draftee-to-be in the status of an Overseas Chinese having previously established household registration in the Republic of China shall be subject to conscription enlistment according to law upon expiry of one-year period beginning the day next to his return to the Republic of China.
A draftee-to-be in the status of an Overseas Chinese having not established household registration in the Republic of China previously shall be subject to conscription enlistment according to law upon expiry of one-year period beginning the day next to his initial household registration following his return to the Republic of China.

And it goes on and on. The fact that it says “Overseas Chinese” and not “ROC national” seems to suggest Wilz may be included. However, if we look Art. 23 of the parent law, we find this:

Conscription Regulations for Naturalized Aliens and Returning Overseas Chinese in accordance with Subparagraph 5 to Subparagraph 7 of Articles 36 of the Act of Military Service System shall be enacted by the Executive Yuan.

Which points to this:

Recruiting Age Male who has one of the following situation should go through Recruitment re-processing;Those have not gone through recruitment processes should go through the processes and be recruited aster passing:
[…]
5- Became a citizen of the Republic of China.
6- Migrated to a foreign country before the Recruiting Age and had returned and reside in the country;The same for those who have obtained foreign citizenships.
7- Studying abroad before the Recruiting Age and had returned to the country after graduating;The same for those who have obtained foreign citizenships.

This seems to say they only care about Overseas Chinese who are also ROC nationals. So, when is an Overseas Chinese not an ROC national?

Overseas Chinese Identity Certification Act
Article 3
This Act applies to Republic of China (“ROC”) nationals who reside in a foreign country, provided that it does not apply to persons with Mainland China, Hong Kong or Macau residency status, or persons holding passports issued by Mainland China region.

So presumably, if Wilz has been certified as an Overseas Chinese through this law, he’s an ROC national (which should be clear from the Nationality Act anyway, I suppose). But then again:

Regulations Regarding Study and Counseling Assistance for Overseas Chinese Students in Taiwan
Art. 2 Par. 1 and 2
In these Regulations, the term “overseas Chinese student” refers to a student of Chinese descent who has come to Taiwan to study, who was born and lived overseas until the present time, or who has been living overseas for six or more consecutive years in the immediate past and obtained permanent or long-term residency status overseas. Please note that a minimum of eight consecutive years of overseas residency is required if the person is applying to study in a university department of medicine, dentistry, or Chinese medicine in Taiwan.
A person’s overseas Chinese student status must be validated by the Overseas Compatriots Affairs Commission (OCAC).

And this regulation’s parent laws are various education laws, not the Nationality Act or anything to do with the military.

So, since he said he’s an Overseas Chinese coming to Taiwan to study, he was presumably certified through the education regulation, and he says he’s not an ROC national (although in that case he’s actually not an “Overseas Chinese/華僑” as defined in the Overseas Chinese Identity Certification Act), so it looks like he should be in the same category as any foreigner for military purposes.

Still, Wilz should check the Nationality Act carefully (sometimes people just don’t realize they’re citizens, they don’t know everything about their parents and so on) and ask the MND just in case.

Chinese descent = 華裔
Overseas Chinese student = 僑生

[tempogain]

Interesting! The first law is the conscription law though, and the 2013 law for volunteers would supersede it in that area, in my understanding. The description of who can volunteer there seems pretty explicit.

This link to the Nationality Act should work;

http://law.moj.gov.tw/Eng/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?PCode=D0030001

The conditions for Taiwan nationality are also explicit:

Article 2 A person shall have the nationality of the ROC under any of the conditions provided by the following Subparagraphs:

1. His/her father or mother was a national of the ROC when he/she was born.
2. He/she was born after the death of his/her father or mother, and his/her father or mother was a national of the ROC at the time of death.
3. He/she was born in the territory of the ROC, and his/her parents can’t be ascertained or both were stateless persons.
4. He/she has undergone the naturalization process.
   Preceding Subparagraph 1 and Subparagraph 2 shall also apply to the persons who were minors at the time of the amendment and promulgation of this Act.

[Wilz95]

Wow thanks for looking it for me
really appreciate it

[11173]

Can you elaborate more on your “overseas Chinese” status? How did you officalize this status in order to enrol in the university’s “overseas Chinese” stream?

[Wilz95]

My university send me application form and I just filled it then send back to them , they said that the application form is application for overseas Chinese student and since they have “seen” me personally , that is why they said I was qualified under overseas Chinese student stream

[11173]

That means that outside of the university it means nothing (other than possible cultural implications).

[Wilz95]

But can i personally apply for “overseas chinese certificate” with my status as overseas chinese student ? I do personally plan to ask in Taiwan

[11173]

No, you can’t. They are not the same thing. One has nothing to do with the other,
That’s not to say you definitely cannot apply for an overseas Chinese certificate. If you have documents that prove your Chinese ancestry you should be able to do it. But that’s something that the TECOs (Taipei cultural affairs offices, de facto ROC embassies/consulates overseas) deal with, not offices within Taiwan. You can ask at your local TECO and make further enquiries when you are in Taiwan. That would be the best way to find out.
But the eligibility factors for the official overseas Chinese certificate are much more stringent than this overseas Chinese student status that you have.

[Wilz95]

Well i have asked them once regarding this overseas chinese status. However they seems kinda confused as well and directed me to inquire this question in Taiwan instead.

[11173]

In that case you need to download the official Chinese language information from the ministry’s website, print it out, bring it to the TECO and ask them. Most likely they will refer it to someone more senior than the lady/gentleman at the service desk. I imagine that if you to inquire about this in Taiwan, they would refer you back to your local TECO. So if they still tell you to direct your enquiry to offices in Taiwan, do so, and then when you go back tell them you guys told me to ask this question in Taiwan and they in Taiwan told me to ask the question to you guys. Then they’ll be forced to look into it further.

You need to ask your parents and grandparents what documentation they have.

Either way none of this is going to lead to you being able to join the Taiwanese military unless you happen to have a grandparent who was one of the very few people issued with official ROC nationality papers such as a passport. If you do, then you should be able to officially register yourself as a ROC national.
Even in the very slight chance that you were able to do this, the Taiwanese military doesn’t have what you are looking for anyway. But if you really want to do it most likely the only way to do it will be to naturalize as a ROC national the same way I could naturalize as a ROC national if I really want to. Meaning live in Taiwan for 5 years consecutively for at least 183 days out of each year on a non-student ARC and then go through the formalities of applying for ROC naturalization. Only then would you be able to join the Taiwanese military.

[Wilz95]

DThank you for the Information

I will do that personally once i have reached taiwan

For my grandparents and parents documentation about whether they are ROC nationals or not i think it is impossible to be provided since both of my grandparents already gone and my parents do not have any relevant “official” documents that could state our family was ROC nationals back then (however that does not mean that we might not ROC nationals , we just do not have)

[Liam_Og]

I think for overseas Chinese status the Teco in your country might accept a document issued by your home country that gives your ethnicity as Chinese.maybe. read that so.ewhere once.

[Wilz95]

Thanks for the info

I think I should give them a call as well

[tempogain]

Cama across this FAQ; there might be some relevant information.

http://www.nca.gov.tw/engver/faq.asp

[sciolto]

I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but I’m curious, and it’s somewhat relevant to “foreigners serving in ROC army”

I am an Overseas Chinese, born to two ROC citizen parents. I currently have a Taiwan passport but I am 無戶籍國民, National Without Household Registration. I assume this makes me a national, but correct me if I’m wrong (e.g. national vs. citizenship in the case of Taiwan… ?)

I’m currently applying for a TARC in hopes of staying in Taiwan for a year (straight through, no leaving) and then getting citizenship. My understanding is, afterwards, I would be called for military service as soon as I get my 身分證.

However, what if I spend that year establishing residency volunteering for the army, does that kind of kill two birds with one stone? As in, does it satisfy my army service post-shenfenzhen and also residency requirement? Anyone have thoughts on this?

Or, if not, a number I could call? Min. Def?

[ranlee]

I don’t have an answer for you volunteering while you’re establishing your residency, but there’s been a rather new 12 day policy you could possibly look into.

Check this thread

Finally reporting for military conscription...for 12 days

So I’ve been avoiding military conscription doing visa runs and switching from US to ROC passports for the last 3 years so I can work. One interesting thing I recently found out is that there is a way for you to only have to do 12 days. My mother has been sick, stage 3 breast cancer on both sides. And someone recently told me that if one of your parents is sick enough currently or within 5 years. and you are the only son, you can qualify for a special military conscription that only requires 12…