Mob "Justice" and the demise of rational discourse

Did he call the BLM protesters terrorists? Or did he call those rioting terrorists, groups like Antifa?

I know this distinction is sometimes lost, he has a problem with illegal immigrants (for example) and for 4 years straight people claim he has a problem with immigrants, not the same thing. Illegal immigrants for example are not the same as immigrants, who come to a country legally.

people who say “black lives matter” no one has a problem with, who would have a problem with a benign phrase which implies equality and a wish not to see discrimination. Rioting, looting, attacking people, killing people, burning down peoples businesses, not OK. Not the same thing as peaceful protests.

Can you find a Democrat denouncing rioting? Shouldn’t they? Don’t you?

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does he differentiate? i don’t think so. that shame of walk of trump to st john’s church tells a lot.

you really think democrat executives really don’t stand for law and order (or more so, they even welcomed it ?). only republicans could do this job?

in none of the interviews i read, has any democrat in charge expressed any support in favor of looters or rioters. not even cuomo.

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Well this is the question, I think he has aimed his remarks at those rioting and in particular Antifa.

But do the Democrats differentiate? Can you find me a single one that can have praise for the BLM protesters, but denounces the rioters? Any Democrat denounce Antifa? Maybe even find one that acknowledges they exist?

It is not enough that they don’t express support for looters, rioters, people being attacked and killed. You need to denounce that and any group associated with rioting, looting, attacking and killing people, burning down businesses.

In fact from where I stand the Democrat leaders of these cities have been egging on rioters, looters and allowing this type of behavior to go on by instructing their police force not to intervene or withdrawing from police precincts and allowing the mob to burn it down. Taking over 6 city blocks and calling it the nation of Chaz, then when challenged why they don’t do anything, describe the place as a summer of love as multiple people get shot and killed.

It not only looks like the left is unwilling to denounce violence, it looks like they are encouraging it.

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ok. so basically the exact thing i said about trump being lenient on right wing groups just the opposite.

again, from where i stand, i have a total different perspective.

The authoritarian left has decided that they know the Truth, and anyone that doesn’t adopt this Truth is not only wrong, they’re immoral. This way of thinking allows for the distortion and misstatement of facts, just as it allows for the public shaming of anyone who questions the Truth.

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Except the media lies, In Charlottsvile, blatantly. This is what he said.

I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

Then you say

trump never had it in him to condemn domestic right wing crimes

Even when I point out the media ignore it, you reply with

hmm, maybe. “they’re are good and bad people on both side” with a lot of blablabla

No, it wasn’t blablabla it was

I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

Then you conflate protesters with Antifa and make the claim.

I called bullshit, he has said that about Antfia not BLM, can you back up the claim he called BLM protesters terrorists? I don’t think you can.

At the same time, you can’t show me a single Democrat that has denounced the violence coming from Antifa, they are enabling violence when they should be denouncing it.

It’s not a matter of perspective, these are facts, facts which I have and you ignore or reduce to blablabla and can’t back up your claims that Trump called BLM terrorists and facts you cant show a single Democrat denouncing Antifa as a violent group.

Not perspective, facts.

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please define the authoritarian left in your opinion first.

and please tell me what the authoritarian right currently in power is doing? they don’t know the truth? just pretend to do so?

It seems to me he said both, but I’m (seriously) still wondering who the good people at Charlottsville were that he meant.

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Trump : “Those people – all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee.”

Reporter : “Should that statue be taken down?”

Trump : "Excuse me. If you take a look at some of the groups, and you see – and you’d know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you’re not – but many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.

"So this week it’s Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

“But they were there to protest – excuse me, if you take a look, the night before they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. Infrastructure question. Go ahead.”

Reporter : “Should the statues of Robert E. Lee stay up?”

Trump : “I would say that’s up to a local town, community, or the federal government, depending on where it is located.”

Reporter : “How concerned are you about race relations in America? And do you think things have gotten worse or better since you took office?”

Trump : "I think they’ve gotten better or the same. Look, they’ve been frayed for a long time. And you can ask President Obama about that, because he’d make speeches about it. But I believe that the fact that I brought in – it will be soon – millions of jobs – you see where companies are moving back into our country – I think that’s going to have a tremendous, positive impact on race relations.

"We have companies coming back into our country. We have two car companies that just announced. We have Foxconn in Wisconsin just announced. We have many companies, I say, pouring back into the country. I think that’s going to have a huge, positive impact on race relations. You know why? It’s jobs. What people want now, they want jobs. They want great jobs with good pay, and when they have that, you watch how race relations will be.

“And I’ll tell you, we’re spending a lot of money on the inner cities. We’re fixing the inner cities. We’re doing far more than anybody has done with respect to the inner cities. It’s a priority for me, and it’s very important.”

Reporter : “Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?”

Trump : "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs – and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left – you just called them the left – that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter : (Inaudible) “… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --”

Trump : “Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides – I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.”

Reporter : “The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --”

Trump : “Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves – and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

Reporter : “George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.”

Trump : “George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down – excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?”

Reporter : “I do love Thomas Jefferson.”

Trump : "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?

"So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists – because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

“Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group.”

Reporter : “Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying.”

Trump : "No, no. There were people in that rally – and I looked the night before – if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people – neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.

"But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest – because, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country – a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.

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To my knowledge, the protest over Lee’s statue didn’t happen, but that is clearly what he is referencing. It’s also interesting that he was absolutely correct on Washington and Jefferson statues, and was mocked for it.

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He was talking about people who wanted to keep a statue. That was what the protest was supposed to be about before it got hijacked by right wing loons.

You might make the comment that those who were there just to protest the removing the statue should have withdrawn from the rally knowing it was being hijacked by right wing loons, but that is another argument.

The media for what it’s worth fanned the flames quite a it before the rally, painting the picture so to speak. The police did a shit job too, there were about 300 people who they basically pushed into the opposing group. One could argue they wanted a conflict to be a media spectacle, In fact claims were made that protesters were bused in to cause chaos. see here The claim being the left bird dogged the event, set up and painted the event to be what they described and then deliberately caused a scene for reporters. You can dismiss that as a conspiracy theory, I would dismiss it but not with a zero chance of that not being what happened.

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someone saying the media lies, that’s already a big no-no. at least for now, there is no one media. the only people using this narrative are the ones who have a problem with the media sticking to the facts.

I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

yeah he said it, like someone held a knife to his throat.

you ever heard of rethorics? in your opinion it wasn’t bs, in my opinion it was.

i’m not going to look up every single word he said, it wouldn’t matter.
yet his actions and his words speak against him in that he is able to differentiate between peaceful protesters and rioters or even looters.

again, why were all those peaceful protesters in front of the white being pushed away just minutes before trump walked over to st johns church? do you know if trump considered them as protesters, rioters, looters or antifa?

they don’t have to denounce the violence as antifa. it’s violence and it’s devastation. and they are willing to do something against it.

as a reasonable politician, i would avoid to use the term antifa as well.
it’s just as spongy as saying every conservative is a trumpster.

has there been any historical events in the US where the so-called antifa has played a significant role?

You clearly said he refereed to BLM as terrorists. He either did or he didn’t, you made the claim, either back it up, or accept you made a mistake.

You refer to the protesters in front of the White House as peaceful, It was not peaceful here is an interview with Bill Barr where the reporter keeps trying to push the false narative everyone was being peaceful (prompted at 13.45) it goes on for a couple of minutes despite Barr describing the violence to a point she says “3 of my colleagues were there” Bill Barr replies “I was there, projectiles were being thrown, I saw them being thrown”. Now perhaps you might open you mind to the level of dishonesty you get from the media, all day every day. It’s quite frustrating.

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I’m more wondering if those people were actually there or not.

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That’s a good question, if I had been part of a group protesting removal of a statue and the media started hailing it as a far right rally and knowing people waving Nazi flags were going to attend, I wouldn’t have anything to do with it, whatever my feelings about removing a statue. But your right, it’s a good point and perhaps another argument.

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no, i did not.

as mentioned above twice i don’t know if trump can differentiate between peaceful protesters and violent rioters and looters.

where did this come from?

this is where everyone should be able to agree upon. and no democrat has spoken in favor of killing, burning, rioting or looting. if you have other sources, please share.

i don’t know what’s your definition of rioting. imo, the mayors and governors (be it democratic) have all spoken out against violent and destructive behavior. i don’t know what you expect of them. calling in the military? oh wait, someone tried that already…

I haven’t been following lately but remember the beginning and CNN standing in front of a blazing building describing the “protests” as peaceful. That evening the rioters were throwing bricks, breaking windows of stores, looting and I think that day a cop was shot. Pretty much the definition of rioting.

As for BLM protests, they are fine, no one should have a problem with the phase BLM, of course they do! You get into another discussion when you talk about the organisation, but as for protesting our right to say your life matters,no problem at all.

That’s what I was seeing peaceful protests in the day, opportunists and some agitators in the evening.

I am quoting you directly.

Who are you referring to as “them” if not the BLM protestors? Emphasis added was mine. I said he specifically called Antifa and people rioting in the evening terrorists and asked you to show where he called BLM terrorists, you are now claiming you didn’t say that. Whatever, I’m off to do other things, you have a good day.

i only rarely watch us news too but that night i did, i could see minute by minute how peaceful protesters (before curfew) were aggressively moved away so trump could have his moment posing with an upside down bible in front of a church.

i agree

the problem is. if even the potus is speaking in such unclear terms, what do you expect of me? THESE thugs. did he only meant looters or rioters? or anyone protesting? i don’t know. yet i hope he only meant the violent ones, i can’t be so sure about it.

Protesters are not looters, but I called out that tweet as being one that would get him trouble, for the use of the word “thug” as well as the looting starts the shooting starts. It did get him trouble. But I agree, he takes his part of the blame for not being clear, the media take their part in pushing their interpretation.

You can somewhat legislate peoples thoughts through education policy. Especially young people at an impressionable age. If say we made the word “hate” or any synonyms of it illegal then this when done on a large scale with many other words included; it would affect thought. No?

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