Money, sex, and who you'd be willing to date

Life Dating & Relationships
1

History and dating preferences

  • I’ve never bought sex, and I would prefer to date only people who’ve never been paid for sex
  • I’ve never been paid for sex, and I’d prefer to date only people who’ve never paid for sex
  • I’ve bought sex, and I’d prefer to date only people who’ve never been paid for sex
  • I’ve been paid for sex, and I’d prefer to date only people who’ve never bought sex
  • I’ve never bought sex, and I have no preference when it comes to a partner’s past
  • I’ve never been paid for sex, and I have no preference when it comes to a partner’s past
  • I’ve bought sex, and I have no preference when it comes to a partner’s past
  • I’ve been paid for sex, and I have no preference when it comes to a partner’s past
  • I’ve bought/been paid for sex, and I’d accept only a partner who’d done either about as many times as I have
  • WTF man what does any of this matter? I’ll do anything and date anyone as long as things are working out in the moment!

0 voters

I originally posed an inquiry of this sort in the thread “Vaginal Douches” in which young Reeceb103 questions whether his girlfriend might be offering “full service” at the massage parlor where she admitted to giving happy endings. A discussion regarding the wisdom of dating a “pro” ensued.
This is a question that I’ve thought about a lot, but from a different angle, as I am a single female expat in Taiwan. We all face interesting dating scenarios here that we might not face to the same extent in our own country, and a big one for me is whether or not I want to date someone who’s paid for sex (because from what I’ve seen, a good deal of the expat men here do pay for sex, or at least more so than I would assume do at home).
My post was off topic and I should have made it a new thread so I’m pulling the off topic posts and putting them here. I think it’s an interesting discussion but didn’t want to muddy the waters of the original inquiry. Also I want to see if anyone answers my poll :wink:

[quote=“Gryphon”][quote=“urodacus”]“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

somebody who wore a dress and had a beard supposedly said that once. and he was friends with the prostitutes.

Seriously, guys, get over the hatred for professional women. They’re people too. It’s just a job. Maybe a hand job, maybe more, but still just a well paying job in the end.[/quote]

Who’s casting stones? Who’s hating professional women?
All I’ve seen here is the OP explaining his situation and people trying to help him figure out how to confirm his suspicions.[/quote]
This is a little off topic, but I’ve been curious about this for a long time, so I’m going to throw it out here:
For those of you who do frequent (or sporadically make use of) prostitutes, but would never consider being in a relationship with a “professional,” have you ever thought about it the other way round?
Meaning, if you’ve gone to prostitutes, and wouldn’t date a former or currently-practicing prostitute, have you thought about how you might want to date a “normal” girl in the future and that she might not want to date you, because you’d gone to prostitutes?

For me personally, I’d prefer not to date a guy who’d ever gone to a prostitute. This makes dating here in Taiwan (as an expat woman) a little tricky, because when do you ask that question? I’d put the percentage of expats who’ve gone to prostitutes here at about 90% (am I way off?) so like, when do I ask that question? (“Wow, what a nice dinner! Thanks! I really had a great time with you! Good first date! So, have you ever paid someone to fuck them???”) I don’t want to be sex negative, I don’t want to be judgmental about people’s pasts, but still- I don’t want to date these guys. In much the same way as I wouldn’t want to date a guy who views sex as a sport in which the goal is to have as many teammates as humanly possible before settling down. Call me overly traditional if you will but there it is. I do come from a sheltered background.

I totally believe prostitution should be legal, am friends with people who frequent prostitutes, and believe that whatever happens between consenting adults is A-ok (key word, consenting- I think there are clearly some human rights issues here in Taiwan- if you’re with a prostitute and you’re not fluent in her language, how do you know she’s really there willingly? You don’t son, you don’t. I don’t care how enthusiastic she is, you have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes or how she got there, or whether her enthusiasm is due to mistreatment behind the scenes if she doesn’t get as many clients as she could or god only knows bla blah blah…)

Anyways---- I believe prostitution serves a function in society, exchange of money for a service, consenting adults, yadda yadda yadda, but when it comes to dating, I’d rather not cast my lot in with a guy who has gone to prostitutes. Ever. In my view he likely has views of sex, women, money and power that are not compatible with my life happiness. I am kind of a stickler about who I date though…

So, yeah, what are your thoughts, boys? Did you think, before you paid for sex, of what kind of girl you’d like to end up with and whether she’d want to be with someone who’d done what you’re doing? If you’ve only gone a few times, or if it was “just a stage” would you date a girl who’d only sold her body a few times, or was a prostitute just as a stage of life? Is there a big difference between he who pays and she who gets paid?
I’ve had this conversation with a few guys one on one but as you can imagine it’s tough to get a clear response face to face.

2

[quote=“NonTocareLeTete”]
This is a little off topic, but I’ve been curious about this for a long time, so I’m going to throw it out here:
For those of you who do frequent (or sporadically make use of) prostitutes, but would never consider being in a relationship with a “professional,” have you ever thought about it the other way round?
Meaning, if you’ve gone to prostitutes, and wouldn’t date a former or currently-practicing prostitute, have you thought about how you might want to date a “normal” girl in the future and that she might not want to date you, because you’d gone to prostitutes?

For me personally, I’d prefer not to date a guy who’d ever gone to a prostitute. This makes dating here in Taiwan (as an expat woman) a little tricky, because when do you ask that question? I’d put the percentage of expats who’ve gone to prostitutes here at about 90% (am I way off?) so like, when do I ask that question? (“Wow, what a nice dinner! Thanks! I really had a great time with you! Good first date! So, have you ever paid someone to fuck them???”) I don’t want to be sex negative, I don’t want to be judgmental about people’s pasts, but still- I don’t want to date these guys. In much the same way as I wouldn’t want to date a guy who views sex as a sport in which the goal is to have as many teammates as humanly possible before settling down. Call me overly traditional if you will but there it is. I do come from a sheltered background.

I totally believe prostitution should be legal, am friends with people who frequent prostitutes, and believe that whatever happens between consenting adults is A-ok (key word, consenting- I think there are clearly some human rights issues here in Taiwan- if you’re with a prostitute and you’re not fluent in her language, how do you know she’s really there willingly? You don’t son, you don’t. I don’t care how enthusiastic she is, you have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes or how she got there, or whether her enthusiasm is due to mistreatment behind the scenes if she doesn’t get as many clients as she could or god only knows bla blah blah…)

Anyways---- I believe prostitution serves a function in society, exchange of money for a service, consenting adults, yadda yadda yadda, but when it comes to dating, I’d rather not cast my lot in with a guy who has gone to prostitutes. Ever. In my view he likely has views of sex, women, money and power that are not compatible with my life happiness. I am kind of a stickler about who I date though…

So, yeah, what are your thoughts, boys? Did you think, before you paid for sex, of what kind of girl you’d like to end up with and whether she’d want to be with someone who’d done what you’re doing? If you’ve only gone a few times, or if it was “just a stage” would you date a girl who’d only sold her body a few times, or was a prostitute just as a stage of life? Is there a big difference between he who pays and she who gets paid?
I’ve had this conversation with a few guys one on one but as you can imagine it’s tough to get a clear response face to face.[/quote]

Well, I for one, have never been to a prostitute. It’s against what I personally believe. But I have had a pimp approach me once and ask if I wanted to check out some of his girls. This happened near SOGO in Taipei on a crowded sidewalk. My Chinese comprehension was really bad at the time, but he pointed to a book of photos. I had two thoughts: “Is he asking me if I want to take photos?” and “Why are all those women so scantily clad?”

3

[quote=“divea”][quote]I’ve had this conversation with a few guys one on one but as you can imagine it’s tough to get a clear response face to face.
[/quote]

Yes I don’t think men admit to going to prostitutes or brag about it. Really you think a majority of expat men have paid for sex? Why? It’s so easy for them in Taiwan. I don’t know I’m just thinking aloud.

To the OP, so what?? If you’re not comfortable with her side profession, dump her, but really do you think any girls you meet, you’ll know their history exactly unless like you grew up with her or something. People do drugs in college, girls have babies that they give for adoption, abortions, have been abused and raped, and they may not tell any of it to you. If you’re a man of a certain age, you’d have stuff like going to pros or fondling another guy or some stupid drunk trick you once pulled. Making a bit of extra cash on the side is so prevalent. I am not condoning her actions, just saying yes it happens. She could have been a model and stripping for cash and that is usually acceptable. What the scientist said, if you love her, these things can be talked about and she can stop doing a li’l bit on the side.[/quote]

Quite so. I doubt anyone tells of their most shameful secrets, regardless of how banal or lurid. Which of these will be a deal-breaker is up for individual decision. If a woman had been with a prostitute it would not impact my decision to date her, but if she had cheated on partners in the past it would end my interest. I’m not saying these are the correct judgments, merely the ones which align with my moral compass and personal insecurities. Most of my horrible secrets, the bits of my past behavior which shame and embarrass me, would probably leave most people nonplussed. Mostly momentary thoughtless slights which are likely forgotten by the slighted. These are mine alone, and wouldn’t be shared.

No person is an island, except when they are.

4

This happened to me on holiday in Thailand. My gf (Taiwanese) was right there next to me. I did vaguely wonder what marked me out as a potential customer, but I wasn’t especially offended. Gf thought it was funny.

Seems a bit unlikely. AFAIK there isn’t even a big prostitution “scene” here, but perhaps I live a sheltered existence. Personally, never have and never will. Partly I’d be terrified of picking up some horrible disease (which must be a very real possibility, condoms or not) but mostly I think it’s Wrong. OK, fine, market demand and supply and all that; no doubt there are some men for whom it’s a logical spending decision, and some women who literally have no other option. However, I believe 99% of prostitutes are not in the “no other option” category: they’ve simply grown up in a world where options are jealously guarded, or where they’ve been told that there are no other options. I think this is especially true in “poor” countries, where the poverty basically boils down to a complete failure of imagination.

5

[quote=“finley”]

Seems a bit unlikely. AFAIK there isn’t even a big prostitution “scene” here, but perhaps I live a sheltered existence. Personally, never have and never will.[/quote]

I think I was just so horrified and disturbed when I found out that so many of my friends and acquaintances went (some with wives, most with girlfriends-that’s the hardest part for me- if it were me, and my bf was going to prostitutes on the side, I’d want someone to tell me, would feel horribly betrayed by the people who knew, and looked me in the eye and made nice with me at social events but didn’t tell me- but do these girls WANT to know? Cultural differences and all? BTW, anyone who knows who I am in real life, this is why I’m awkward around your wife/girlfriend and limit my interactions with her!) that I just decided to err on the side of “everyone goes” in order to move on to “but that doesn’t mean they’re bad people and I shouldn’t judge them” and on to “but it’s still ok for me not to want to date a guy who’s into that.”
So yeah maybe not 90%.
But then again, how many guys have read that post since I posted it, and how many have commented saying “I haven’t gone!”
I’ll assume most guys wouldn’t want to admit that they have, so they wouldn’t respond to the post, while we’d get maybe a 50/50 response rate from guys who haven’t?
All conjecture of course.

Maybe I should make a poll in this forum, the options being:

  1. have been to prostitute/prostituted, wouldn’t date ex prostitute/john
  2. Have not been, would not date
  3. Have and would date
  4. Haven’t and would date
    Wonder what the response rate would be?

[quote]
Partly I’d be terrified of picking up some horrible disease (which must be a very real possibility, condoms or not) but mostly I think it’s Wrong. OK, fine, market demand and supply and all that; no doubt there are some men for whom it’s a logical spending decision, and some women who literally have no other option. [/quote]
I don’t think it does good things to people’s psyches (both buyer and seller) and wires up their brain so it’s probably difficult to have what I’d consider a healthy relationship (subjective of course!) but again, to each their own.

There’s just no way to know how they got into it without asking. I believe it was mentioned on this forum somewhere that in the 80’s aboriginal families were selling their daughters into prostitution as young as age 12. I did the math and realized that it’s possible (likely) that these ladies are still on the market. If your own family would do such a thing to you, how would you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and even imagine a different kind of life for yourself?
I’ve played with the idea of conducting interviews/compiling stories of these women— the good, the bad, the ugly, and making a book. But getting those interviews would probably be difficult and dangerous.
I have read the accounts of prostitutes who enjoy their work very much, and seem to have a healthy view of themselves/the world, and I think that’s wonderful for them and wonderful for their clients. I do think these ladies are probably few and far between, and if I were a guy, I wouldn’t want to risk being with someone who didn’t have a choice. It’s certainly a dirty industry, what with the human trafficking/trickery/children elements. I also wonder how much of the money the prostitute even sees- probably very, very little, with most of it going to those behind the scenes.
It’s hard for me to really respect someone who doesn’t take all of that into consideration before they get their dick wet.

Sometimes I wonder why I’m so interested in this issue. Trafficked in a former life I suppose :unamused:

6

[quote=“NonTocareLeTete”][quote=“skoster”]
Quite so. I doubt anyone tells of their most shameful secrets…[/quote]

See my feeling is that a romantic relationship is EXACTLY the relationship where all of my most shameful secrets come out.[/quote]

And do they? I don’t mean the big things, for me those are easy to tell. Perhaps it’s just a difference I have from you but the tiny ones which probably mean nothing to anyone else are the ones I self flagellate over, and the ones I just can’t generally share. Then again, perhaps I’ve just never had a healthy enough relationship to have had the level of comfort needed. Honestly, I have the feeling that if I did share them I’d be looked at quizzically because they’re all really just moments of thoughtlessness, it would probably seem ridiculous to a partner that I even mentioned them much less was concerned by them. When in the past I’ve considered sharing them I’ve felt stupid for even having them since in the light of thinking about a discussion they just seem too mundane to bother someone with.

This is refreshing and cool by the way- I did flat out ask a guy that once (“so you’ve gone to prostitutes- would you ever consider having a serious relationship with/dating/marrying a prostitute? Would you end a relationship if you found out the girl had been a prostitute in the past?”) and the micro-expression of abject horror that passed over his face told me all I needed to know- like, “Me? marry a prostitute? Mother of my children? Are you fucking kidding? I’m better than that!”
It’s just a double standard that I’m not impressed with. Sort of a Madonna/whore complex, men should sew their wild oats and women should limit their number of partners thing. So sick of that shit.[/quote]

Note that I said if she had been with a prostitute. I don’t know how I’d feel about her having been a prostitute. I suppose the situation would have to be taken into account. Did she just want some nice shoes or was she trafficked into it? I don’t know.

To be fair to the guy you asked, it’s a different question. Would you date someone who had been a prostitute vs would you date someone who had been with a prostitute. I’m not saying one is better or worse, but they involve different valuations of things.

This happened to me on holiday in Thailand. My gf (Taiwanese) was right there next to me. I did vaguely wonder what marked me out as a potential customer, but I wasn’t especially offended. Gf thought it was funny.[/quote]

I’ve traveled single to Thailand and it happened to me quite a lot, though usually the girls themselves as opposed to pimps. Very uncomfortable, and it’s part of why I don’t care for Bangkok. I didn’t like who I became. I’m that goofy person who smiles at people, and Bangkok made me avoid eye contact and assume the worst of people.

I would expect that most men don’t feel the need to puff out their chests and proudly proclaim “Nope, I don’t have sex with prostitutes!” though perhaps I’m wrong. I go with the idea that most people, men and women, don’t engage in prostitution, and hold that as the basic expectation unless shown otherwise. Could well be naivete, I suppose.

Though I think the reason some men don’t see frequenting a prostitute as such a significant issue is that probably quite a few of us have dated women who use sex as force. Whether it’s an actual item they want or just to go do something. I know I’ve been cuddled up to by past partners when they wanted me to go to some event or another with them, or when they wanted me not to go do something else I wanted to do. Really, in a lot of ways it’s just degree. I’m not blaming these past partners, if I thought I had the power perhaps I would have used it that way as well (I don’t know, it seems distasteful but it’s hard to say how one would wield a particular power when one has never had it).

I’m not defending or attacking either participant in prostitution, just noting that I think many men have been exposed to quite a bit of sex/affection/love in exchange for money/time/gifts/etc. and it desensitizes them to that particular political machination.

I look at it the same way as GEC’s recent story of her road trip. I bet just about every reasonable man read it and thought “Fuck me, that girl was fucking raped!” because we haven’t been exposed to the, let’s say continuum of force, many women face during their sexual relationships. Well, we are, it’s usually just not specifically physical force. It’s usually psychological force driving an economic or emotional desire. So we become desensitized to a bit of sexual suggestion and maybe getting cuddled up against because she really wants us to go to some show with her, and women possibly become desensitized to men being sexually aggressive because they’re horny. Obviously this isn’t a healthy relationship, but I bet most of us have experienced being on the taken advantage end of it in at least one relationship.

I think, IIRC, that you even said in that thread something to the effect of women being responsible to satisfy the sexual desires of their partner by being in a relationship. How is that really different than men being responsible to satisfy the monetary desires of their partner? I’m not judging that statement, just noting that it’s all about exposure. While one of those statements is reprehensible to me, the other statement is just the way the world tends to work from my perspective. Same same but different. So men who have felt like a walking economic opportunity perhaps don’t see that much difference between paying one way or the other, and women who have felt like a walking sexual opportunity perhaps don’t see that much of a difference between giving it up one way or another.

NOTE: Since it occurs to me that someone will probably take this entirely wrong and get terribly offended if I don’t put in this disclaimer… I am NOT comparing rape and prostitution in any other way than in terms of desensitization through exposure. I am NOT equating a rapist to a prostitute. I am merely noting that each gender encounters one of these more, generally, than the other, and thus it can be a comparison SPECIFICALLY in the context of the amount of sexual aggression and the amount of economic aggression each gender is prepared to accept based on desensitization through exposure.

7

I didn’t find anything much to be offended by in your post, Skoster. But I don’t find much that I really relate to either. I’ve never been financially supported by a man since I was 5 years old (thanks pops!) and don’t think (!) that I’ve used sex as a way to get gifts and such or get someone to go to an event- I just do the sex thing if I want to or if my partner wants to and ask for company to the event if I want it and gifts…I can only remember one time I asked specifically for a gift and it was less than satisfying when I got it- I guess because I asked- didn’t feel like it came from his heart, you know.

Maybe we come from different cultures/generations? Sooooooooo glad I don’t mix money up in my relationships. I like to do it 50/50. Makes me uncomfortable if a guy’s paying for everything- in fact, I haven’t allowed that sort of behavior for the last 8 years or so (at that time I was a poor college student and the boyfriend had a great job- we didn’t live together, he just paid for dinners and stuff.)

Anyways I’d really like to tease apart the differences between being WITH a prostitute and being a prostitute. Which is “worse?” Why? There’s a little voice shouting inside me saying that being a prostitute is worse but I think that’s years domestication in a society that shames women for being sexual.
Reason tells me it’s the guy paying for sex who’s “worse.”
Buyer’s motivation in the transaction: get his dick wet
seller’s motivation: probably to feed her family, or because she’s being coerced on some level
I think the seller wins from a moral standpoint there.

We could tease it apart a bunch of different ways…I’m not sure what’s accurate. I’d be interested in hearing other people’s opinions though.

8

Prostitution is just a massive grey area, especially in this part of the world. It’s also a massive business in $$$ terms. And it’s not only guys at it, plenty of older women indulge with man whores. But it’s supposedly big in terms of college escorts back in the West too. I recall one of my friends from my college days who always had an older working guy hanging around, I don’t think anything less of her if she was making some cash from those guys. I used to wonder what she saw in those guys. Maybe she genuinely liked them, maybe she didn’t. :slight_smile:

Women here often openly sell themselves for marriage, so it’s a bit rich to just criticize guys on the other side of the equation. And again it doesn’t just happen in the East either. You won’t get a sniff at lots of ladies without the money backing you up. Then the way guys and girls are constructed, men have a more immediate need to scratch the itch. It’s a biological thing that will never change no matter how much moralizing goes on about it. The world’s oldest profession as they say.

It’s interesting to hear NT say ‘you can confess anything to me’ and then say the guy is going to be written off when he admits to doing the (paid) deed. Wouldn’t that teach people the opposite lesson, never be open with your secrets, because the understanding is not there in the end anyway. How’s the guy to know which hidden secret is getting pass the red line that you can never come back from? Maybe this one was fine with the multiple partners, but that time in Amsterdam, the dirty fecker. Maybe this one was fine with the KTV girls when your were single, but can’t stand the fact that you had an affair. Lots of these things are phases in life or once-offs, I’m not sure how much you can read into somebody’s personality unless there’s a trend there. But everybody is entitled to their red lines I guess.

9

I wasn’t presuming you would be offended, you’ve not come across as someone who would. This world is larger than the two of us, however. :slight_smile:

[quote]I’ve never been financially supported by a man since I was 5 years old (thanks pops!) and don’t think (!) that I’ve used sex as a way to get gifts and such or get someone to go to an event- I just do the sex thing if I want to or if my partner wants to and ask for company to the event if I want it and gifts…I can only remember one time I asked specifically for a gift and it was less than satisfying when I got it- I guess because I asked- didn’t feel like it came from his heart, you know.

Maybe we come from different cultures/generations?[/quote]

Ouch, thanks for calling me old! :hand:

Well, I wasn’t necessarily saying you personally, just that these tend to be different areas people are exposed to differently, and therefore probably have different amounts of desensitization to them.

I’ll go back to your statement about how a woman takes on the responsibility to satisfy a partner’s sexual urges when entering a relationship (correct me if I’m wrong about this statement, I’m going by memory alone). I’d presume that to feel that way one would have to be at least somewhat desensitized to an expectation of providing sex when one doesn’t really feel like it. Certainly from my point of view, as someone who has not been in the position of having to make such provisions, the idea makes me deeply uncomfortable. In the same way that a woman might feel extremely uncomfortable with a man wheedling her for a gift or even merely expecting it, but many men just shrug it off as par for the course. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just that this is generally what terribly old people like me have encountered. :wink:

My overall point is just that the things people are exposed to often desensitize them, and often men are exposed to an expectation of providing things with sexual suggestion being part of the motivation. This may desensitize them to the process and may lead them to view prostitution differently.

I’m not casting judgement, I don’t particularly care what other consenting people do as long as it doesn’t impact me. I find it distasteful, but not morally so, really just in a “Why would I want to sleep with someone who doesn’t even know me, much less like me?” kind of way. All I’m doing is positing a hypothesis as to why some men seem quite comfortable with it.

[quote]Anyways I’d really like to tease apart the differences between being WITH a prostitute and being a prostitute. Which is “worse?” Why? There’s a little voice shouting inside me saying that being a prostitute is worse but I think that’s years domestication in a society that shames women for being sexual.
Reason tells me it’s the guy paying for sex who’s “worse.”
Buyer’s motivation in the transaction: get his dick wet
seller’s motivation: probably to feed her family, or because she’s being coerced on some level
I think the seller wins from a moral standpoint there.

We could tease it apart a bunch of different ways…I’m not sure what’s accurate. I’d be interested in hearing other people’s opinions though.[/quote]

Seems like a bit of a simplistic analysis. How about the seller needing to feed a drug habit, or just wanting to have some extra spending money? How about the buyer feeling unloved at home, or feeling like they aren’t worth anything better? Or the seller feeling that way? Or the buyer feeding a sexual addiction?

I don’t know, I don’t really have the answers since it’s not exactly something I’ve put any time or effort into thinking about, but I’m just guessing that it’s a bit more complicated than the documentaries lead us to believe and that there are almost as many reasons as buyers and sellers. I’d bet that each individual case will be different as to which is ‘worse’ and that such a subjective decision is going to vary from analyst to analyst.

10

[quote=“Lros”]this thread is a deeepnesssssssss.

curious to see an update from the OP. I’m predicting that she did not own up to giving full service and they will carry it on and the OP will somehow look past her faults.

I don’t really see what the big deal is myself. she is touching other dudes dicks and spanking them off… for a living. you really need to know if she is going the whole way(she is) or not before walking away? ontop of that she is acting like a taiwanese princess? I don’t see any benefit to dating this girl whatsoever.[/quote]

It will be funny when one day the OP will look at himself in the mirror and realise she put penises in her hands until they climaxed and he thought that was OK, while she was lying to him (and that is not taking into account the probable intercourse. How do you know she even practiced safe sex?)

The female poster above asked about prostitution.
Well, I and my friends have only ever done it in Thailand (some were married, some were divorced, some were single, some had girlfriends). I would not consider doing it in the ‘west’ where many are junkies who lay back and clock watch. Almost every friend back in the west asks about it when I see them as they are super curious about it. I have never done it in Taiwan, but I know some who have. I have no real interest trying it in Taiwan.
In Thailand, it is almost like picking a woman up in a bar for a one night stand like back in the west (and is known by many as the GFE - girlfriend experience)
In fact, I would prefer the prostitute option than the ONS in say London. No prostitute I have known has ever said no condom is OK. Many ONS’s didn’t care (I always cover up). The prostitutes were meticulously clean who always shower and insist on punters showering before anything happened, but ONS’s didn’t seem to care much in my experience. (The only time Thai prostitutes don’t cover up is with their Thai boyfriends (who I’d worry about them spreading diseases more than the women))
Which woman would be viewed as worse?
Most of the prostitutes were actually ‘freelancers’. That is, they come out a few times a month or more, for some extra money on top of their day job salary.
I tried some of the girls in go go bars a few years ago, but never really liked that set up. Going in for a look is OK. I have seen a fair few western couples in the bars too looking for a hook up.
It seems non of the women working in the western red light districts are forced into it.
They can come and go as they please. Many of them appear to be lazy and prefer it to working say in a factory. But in Thailand the scene is changing with the recent minimum wage and it seems less women are entering the scene, so I have been told.
The ones forced into it, appear to be the ones who work in the Thai brothels. The western scene is tiny compared to that. The estimate is something like 450,000 Thai men a day go with a prostitute in Thailand.
They aren’t viewed as prostitutes either. They have another term for them. Kind of like a woman working for some kind of advantage.

I would never knowingly date a hooker. One in Thailand asked me to marry her (we’d met up a few times and spent a day or two together). She would have been a decent girlfriend under different circumstances, but no… She married some other guy in the UK, who knew what she did and they now have a baby. I sent her a message about two years after I last saw her and she replied telling me about her baby etc. I thought that was messed up - her chatting to me in those circumstances. I cut ties as I felt sorry for the guy and baby.
“You never lose the woman in Thailand, you just lose your place in line”

But why would any man admit to going with one? It is information that doesn’t need to be shared. There is tons of stuff I would not tell a prospective partner (from the past). I am not going to confession.
All that matters is that moment now or from when we started seeing each other seriously.
The poster seems to think a perfect guy exists out there?
I suggest a pentecostal church or something similar to find a prospective partner.

If one thing living in Asia has taught me, is to never ever admit you did anything untoward to a woman. Women have done that with me. Even when I had the evidence first hand.
That crap you get in the western media and movies about telling the truth is stupid.
“Honey, I cheated on you”. How does that improve anything? It just makes things worse.

11

[quote=“cake”]
The female poster above asked about prostitution.[/quote]

Wow Cake seriously thanks for an honest and detailed response- it was cool to read and answered a lot of my questions. This subject has been nagging at my mind for literally years now and it’s nice to get a response from someone I don’t know/am not emotionally invested in :wink: Helps me listen better, judge less.

[quote]
Well, I and my friends have only ever done it in Thailand (some were married, some were divorced, some were single, some had girlfriends). [/quote]
See, this is a bit rough for me. Were you friends with the wives, the girlfriends, etc? Acquaintances?
I’ve had situations where I know the guy is doing it and felt weird being all nice nice with his wife, meeting her eyes, etc. I’m thinking, she could get a disease. She might try to have a baby with this guy, putting herself in an incredibly vulnerable position, when he’s lying to her- I could never have a baby with a guy I didn’t trust (trust is a spectrum thing, but I’d have to be very very far on the high trust end to spawn with a guy) so part of me wants to save this other woman from putting herself in a bad position.

But I’m not her. I would never date a guy like her husband. Does she even want to know?

So you went with these dudes, some of whom were attached, and didn’t feel bothered about the wives and gfs. If you were friends with woman, and you knew she was sleeping around, and knew her bf/husband in passing, would you feel bothered by that? Would you actively go with her and support her cheating?
And please, I know this sounds judgmental and critical and I’m sorry for that. I just really want to understand and I appreciate your honesty. This has been a real struggle for me in the years I’ve been in Taiwan. I never encountered this sort of thing growing up or during my adult years in America. I never even knew anyone who had cheated (if the significant other didn’t already know).

[quote]
I would not consider doing it in the ‘west’ where many are junkies who lay back and clock watch. Almost every friend back in the west asks about it when I see them as they are super curious about it. I have never done it in Taiwan, but I know some who have. I have no real interest trying it in Taiwan.
In Thailand, it is almost like picking a woman up in a bar for a one night stand like back in the west (and is known by many as the GFE - girlfriend experience)
In fact, I would prefer the prostitute option than the ONS in say London. No prostitute I have known has ever said no condom is OK. Many ONS’s didn’t care (I always cover up). The prostitutes were meticulously clean who always shower and insist on punters showering before anything happened, but ONS’s didn’t seem to care much in my experience. (The only time Thai prostitutes don’t cover up is with their Thai boyfriends (who I’d worry about them spreading diseases more than the women))
Which woman would be viewed as worse?[/quote]

I’ve had a lot of thoughts about this as well- I actually think it’s far better to go to a prostitute if you want no-strings-attached sex than it would be to have an ONS with someone who…well, someone that you weren’t sure of their motives. Like, if you have an ONS with someone who actually really wants a serious relationship and then is really hurt when you never call them again, or a girl who, for example, it’s her first time and she attaches a lot of meaning and significance to it but really she’s just another notch on the guy’s belt- I think the better option would be to pay for it, both parties knowing what to expect.
And no judgement to the women who are prostituting as long as they are honest/not trying to mislead anyone. Who knows their reasons for getting in in the first place. So which woman could be viewed as worse? Not the prostitute in my judgement—don’t really think the ONS girl is bad either, unless, of course, she’s misleading or lying.
And yet you say you would never consider marrying a prostitute- but would you consider marrying a girl who’d had ONS’s in London?

And good for you for always covering up :wink:

[quote]
Most of the prostitutes were actually ‘freelancers’. That is, they come out a few times a month or more, for some extra money on top of their day job salary.
I tried some of the girls in go go bars a few years ago, but never really liked that set up. Going in for a look is OK. I have seen a fair few western couples in the bars too looking for a hook up.
It seems non of the women working in the western red light districts are forced into it.
They can come and go as they please. Many of them appear to be lazy and prefer it to working say in a factory. But in Thailand the scene is changing with the recent minimum wage and it seems less women are entering the scene, so I have been told.[/quote]
Oh that’s really nice to know they come and go as they please/freelance/keep the money they make. I have no idea bout anything in that scene.
I do think that the whole mini wage increase/fewer women doing it is telling. Seems that if a few dollar increase in wages can keep them out of it they probably never wanted to be doing it in the first place.

[quote]
The ones forced into it, appear to be the ones who work in the Thai brothels. The western scene is tiny compared to that. The estimate is something like 450,000 Thai men a day go with a prostitute in Thailand.
They aren’t viewed as prostitutes either. They have another term for them. Kind of like a woman working for some kind of advantage.[/quote]
Again, thanks for telling me. I seriously didn’t even know there were two different “scenes”
All I know is I walked down what is it, “Walking Street” in Thailand (don’t even ask why I was there, it’s a long long story involving a Vietnamese friend and a need to get to the pier to meet two American ex-mormons who were visibly shaken by the time I got to them hahahaha) and I was fucking horrified and all the German guys were glaring at me.

[quote]
I would never knowingly date a hooker. [/quote]
See there it is. YOu’ve participated, yet unwilling to date a fellow participant. What if she’d only sold herself the number of times you had paid for a prostitute. eg, you paid for sex 10 times, she sold herself 10 times to make ends meet- would you date her then? If not, isn’t it a bit of a double standard?
I guess I’m operating under the premise of “If I’m unwilling to accept something in a mate, I better not be guilty of it too.”
For example I don’t want to be with a guy who smokes, and I think that’s fair, because I don’t smoke. If I was a smoker, it’d be a little weird if I demanded a non-smoker, wouldn’t it? I know these two things are not even the least bit the same, just an example to illustrate what I’m trying to get at.
But I clearly look at relationships a lot differently than a lot of people.

[quote]
One in Thailand asked me to marry her (we’d met up a few times and spent a day or two together). She would have been a decent girlfriend under different circumstances, but no… She married some other guy in the UK, who knew what she did and they now have a baby. I sent her a message about two years after I last saw her and she replied telling me about her baby etc. I thought that was messed up - her chatting to me in those circumstances. I cut ties as I felt sorry for the guy and baby.
“You never lose the woman in Thailand, you just lose your place in line”[/quote]
Maybe he also has girls that he messages on the side? I wouldn’t see a problem if it was all above the board and honest. But cool that you wanted to keep yourself out of that situation if it was shady---- again, there’s a degree of “ooh that’s wrong” with this woman you were messaging- you felt bad for the husband. But none of that feeling for the wives of your friends? Is it a male/female thing? Feel bad for the husband if the wife is cheating/messaging, but not feel bad for the wife if the husband is cheating? Why the different feelings?

[quote]
But why would any man admit to going with one? It is information that doesn’t need to be shared. There is tons of stuff I would not tell a prospective partner (from the past). I am not going to confession.[/quote]
I think a lot of people feel this way. I’m the weird one. But I really believe in full honesty. For example, I cheated in a past relationship. Before I get serious with any future guys, I feel better if I tell them about that. I know that sounds really weird. Maybe I shouldn’t? I don’t know, I feel better if I do. Just saying, “This is who I am. This is what I’ve done. You still want to be with me? Kick ass, I want to be with you too.”
I want to know I’m really accepted. I want him to know my weaknesses before he makes a commitment.

[quote]
All that matters is that moment now or from when we started seeing each other seriously.[/quote]
My feeling is that past behavior is the strongest indicator of future behavior. The things I’ve done in the past say a lot about my values, my approach to life, my beliefs, my way of dealing with things, all of which will influence any future partner I have.

[quote]
The poster seems to think a perfect guy exists out there? [/quote]
=0
I’m in America at the moment and seem to have met a guy who feels very similarly to me about all of these issues–so far-- I mean really, can you know? In those first flushes of attraction, those first few deep conversations, when everything is all starry and bright? No, you can’t really know.
But, I’ve known several guys in Taiwan who haven’t gone to prostitutes (even when single) and several more who are faithful to their wives/gf’s. The kind of guys who seem to view women as people and show concern for the people they put their dicks into.
Do I know for sure that they’re like that? No. They might have some skeletons in the closet.
But that’s the sense I get/what I hear from other people. I want one of THOSE guys. And I think I can provide the same sort of fidelity and honesty to a future partner.
If I just fuck around and have fun and meet people for companionship for the rest of my life, man, it doesn’t matter, I’ll just make sure he gloves up so I don’t get a disease.
But if I’m looking to have a family? Yeah, I want one of the good ones.

[quote]
I suggest a pentecostal church or something similar to find a prospective partner.[/quote]
Ehhhh god, no. I’m not religious and want a fellow atheist/agnostic. But I do believe there are atheists who share my values.

[quote]
If one thing living in Asia has taught me, is to never ever admit you did anything untoward to a woman. Women have done that with me. Even when I had the evidence first hand.[/quote]
Yeah— probably smart, but she’ll figure it out soon enough, hanging out with you, and you’ll figure it out hanging out with her. In time, everyone reveals their true characters/attitudes toward the opposite sex.

[quote]
That crap you get in the western media and movies about telling the truth is stupid.
“Honey, I cheated on you”. How does that improve anything? It just makes things worse.[/quote]

See I think the telling the truth thing is awesome, but I totally agree that “Honey, I cheated on you.” Makes everything worse. I know first hand. That shit SUCKS.
So the answer, I’d guess, is just not to cheat in the first place. Which is why I’m scheduling a conversation about polyamory/open relationships with my new flame ASAP. Humans don’t seem to be built for monogamy. It can be done, sure, but it’s hard. Given a choice between an honest, open relationship (in which each partner has other partners) and lying and cheating, I’ll choose the open relationship.

Anyways, Cake, seriously, thanks for responding. I can’t tell you how curious I’ve been and how heavily this topic has weighed on me since I realized some of what was going on around me. I grew up pretty sheltered and Asia was a shock to me. I don’t want to be judgmental. I want to enjoy the people around me for what they can offer and accept the things I don’t agree with because it’s really not my role to agree or disagree with their lifestyle choices.
Anyways the best way for me to accept stuff is to understand it and hearing other people’s thoughts really helps.

12

No.

In my experience, it is non of my business what they do. I will not get involved in their relationships.
I have never been in a scenario where I am friends with the wife/girlfriend and (hubby goes with hooker), so I wouldn’t know how I would react in that scenario.
When it came to female friends and their boyfriends cheating back home. I always stayed out of the way.
You just act like nothing is amiss and get on with your life.
You just don’t know how people will react. It is not worth getting involved.

That is a good question. I would say first, would I consider dating a girl would had the ONS experience?
I have no idea. I know one thing, I probably would as I couldn’t see many women admitting it early on if ever when dating, so I wouldn’t know.

[quote=“NonTocareLeTete”]
Again, thanks for telling me. I seriously didn’t even know there were two different “scenes”
All I know is I walked down what is it, “Walking Street” in Thailand (don’t even ask why I was there, it’s a long long story involving a Vietnamese friend and a need to get to the pier to meet two American ex-mormons who were visibly shaken by the time I got to them hahahaha) and I was fucking horrified and all the German guys were glaring at me.[/quote]
Actually, there are sub scenes if you like.
You have an area in Bangkok that caters for Koreans, Singaporeans and Taiwanese (more Chinese too). Different looking women - usually light skinned and typically beautiful in an Asian way.
There are Japanese areas too. They pay the most and are probably the most popular punters.
You see more Japanese in Western areas now.
I know an area in Bangkok where Thai centric freelancers roam and driving past in a taxi - many looked attractive. Their English is minimal, but I know enough Thai to be able to arrange something. But, many punters will tell you, if there is no kind of chemistry with the woman when you speak to her, there won’t be much in the bedroom. So, that has probably put me off.
And many just don’t go with anyone. If they don’t like them, they won’t bother. I have seen guys knocked back.
I have also had a freebee. I still have her number and she would still come to my hotel, but I prefer to pay. It doesn’t complicate things.
As Jack Nicholson said, “We pay them to go away”.
One of my friends took a stunner (who had many men chasing her) he met on the street then took for a meal then, back to his hotel and told her is wasn’t going to offer any money. If she wanted to stay with him she could or she could leave. She stayed.

You also have the ladyboy scene of course, both for locals and foreigners, as well as the gay scene and bars for women. Some of those guys who cater for women I have been told will also sleep with men (but are not ‘gay’).
Although I have seen western women lesbians with Thai women, I have no idea of bars where the women working there are exclusive to other women.

I can only imagine the reasons the Mormons wanted to go there.
Walking Street has a few Russian Go-Go bars, I noticed when I last walked down there.
Many Russian tourists and expats there, but I couldn’t imagine them wanting to visit bars with over priced east Europeans.

[quote]
You’ve participated, yet unwilling to date a fellow participant. What if she’d only sold herself the number of times you had paid for a prostitute. eg, you paid for sex 10 times, she sold herself 10 times to make ends meet- would you date her then? If not, isn’t it a bit of a double standard?[/quote]

I could never trust one for one. I suppose it is kind of double standards.

But apart from bedroom gymnastics, almost everyone of them hasn’t interested me. And, I can’t see me coming across one that would interest me (I would steer clear anyway).

[quote]
Maybe he also has girls that he messages on the side? I wouldn’t see a problem if it was all above the board and honest. But cool that you wanted to keep yourself out of that situation if it was shady---- again, there’s a degree of “ooh that’s wrong” with this woman you were messaging- you felt bad for the husband. But none of that feeling for the wives of your friends? Is it a male/female thing? Feel bad for the husband if the wife is cheating/messaging, but not feel bad for the wife if the husband is cheating? Why the different feelings?[/quote]

I would say as I was directly or could have been directly involved, I thought, I am not going to get involved.

Well, there are things I would never talk about as I see it as information that she doesn’t need to know. Would it improve my life if she knew? No, so she wouldn’t be told about things that happened in my past.

Here is a documentary segment video of one scene in Thailand. This scene - the massage parlor or ‘soapy’ - I have never experienced, but have been meaning to. More Asians prefer it.
It also has a female hooker paying a male hooker in a bar (something I have heard about before, both with ladyboys and women).
I just skimmed through it, unfortunately no subs. I have seen the full video with subs.
youtube.com/watch?v=pNb93TkKGrA

13

Et tu, tomme?

I just can’t get over the feeling that there are several factors that still might make it ok to know about your partners past:

  1. Maybe the partner’s past isn’t all that bad, and by knowing all about it it can release all doubts that there might be a skeleton there that you’re unaware of.
  2. If you both have similar ideas about what is/isn’t kosher in regards to sex, wouldn’t you be ok with her doing kosher things with other guys (before she even ever knew you?) I mean after all, yours isn’t the only cock in the universe, can you blame her for lavishing affection on the penises she met before she met yours?
  3. If your pasts are somewhat equal in terms of pervertedness and kink, couldn’t you be accepting of whatever she did since you’ve done it as well?

Am I missing something? Am I thinking about this differently because I’m female and the rest of the “don’t tell your past” posters are male?

Anyways for any interested parties, I full on told the guy I’m dating now about my past indiscretion, and he reciprocated with a “secret” of his own, and at least on this side, the trust, respect and honesty has only been strengthened.

Of course I’ll be sure to tell ya’ll if it all blows up horrifically in my face, as it well may.
(Yes yes I said “blows up in my face” make whatever joke you need to make about that, I was talking figuratively, alright folks?)

Edit: Oh and good luck Reeceb103!!! I think it’s cool that you’re so accepting, really refreshing you don’t have a huge double standard for male/female sexual behavior, and I hope that however this ends up going, all involved will be better off for it!

14

I know, right! Life is so unfair! This reminds me of the sad story of the lawyer and the fry cook. I warn you, the injustice of it all may make you weep. Be prepared.

The lawyer had just left the US Supreme Court, having argued, and won, her 27th consecutive case before the Court. The senior partners at her firm called from the conference room to congratulate her on another historic victory, and also welcomed aboard as a full partner. Feeling really great about herself, she stopped by McDonald’s for her favorite treat - French fries and a Coke. Oh sure, she could easily afford better on her $400,000 annual salary, but she just loves those fries. After paying, she waited at the food counter, knowing it wouldn’t take long for her order to be ready. And it’s at this point in our story that our hero is introduced: the fry guy. The order started out like any other. He checked the monitor, saw the letters flash across the screen: “Fries - Large”, and he knew what he had to do. He had to do his job. And as he filled that order, he looked over, and just for an instant, their eyes met. He was mesmerized. She was repelled. It wasn’t that she didn’t appreciate his efforts. He fulfilled a service, and in return, his employer provided him with the minimum wage. But she would never marry him. In fact she…at this point, I invite any readers with heart conditions to have their medication ready…she not only wouldn’t marry this man, she wouldn’t marry any fry guy. That’s right, under no circumstances would she marry this man, or any man in his profession. She wouldn’t take him home to meet her parents, she wouldn’t introduce him to her friends, and she sure as hell wouldn’t marry him. Oh, she’ll use him, surely, he provides a service she needs. But she wouldn’t marry him. Oh, the humanity! :laughing:

15

I know, right! Life is so unfair! This reminds me of the sad story of the lawyer and the fry cook. I warn you, the injustice of it all may make you weep. Be prepared.

The lawyer had just left the US Supreme Court, having argued, and won, her 27th consecutive case … Oh, the humanity! :laughing:[/quote]
Thanks Gao Bohan :laughing: not sure I agree with your general sentiment, but this did make me laugh, and it is food for thought. (sort of a dehydrated, retexturized, freeze-dried then reconstituted by being simmered in a big vat of oil food for thought, but still food for thought)

16

Ok ok ok fuck that I’ve got it.

There’s some back story there that you don’t know:
Before being made a full partner, before her 27th win, before she passed the bar with flying colors…our hero, the illustrious lawyer, SHE TOO had been a fry girl. That’s RIGHT. She had also performed the methodical chore of dipping, dipping dipping the wire mesh boxes of bland, colorless, frozen potato sticks into the vat of writhing oil, and only removing them, dripping, when they were a bright, golden brown, the color of burnished copper, the color of amber fields of grain, that’s right, SHE TOO returned home, weary and smelling of that artificial food-like smell that Mickey D’s pumps out to tempt passerby. And EVEN THEN, she refused to date her fellow fry-people! She was sure that she was only worthy of the purest, brightest, most ambitious lawyer, the most talented surgeon, she would only consider men who’s designer clothing smelled of cologne, who’s hands had never gripped the rubber tongs with which one pulls wire mesh baskets of fries …
blah blah blah you get what I’m saying. but this one kind of falls apart hold on, ok, here it is…

Or, if you will, let’s say this oh so successful lawyer, let’s say ALL SHE EATS IS FRIES. Let’s say she’s had a few non-fry foods in her life but mostly it’s been fries. Sometimes she even lied to the other foods, she would hold an apple lovingly before her, look it in the eyes, and say- you apple, you are the only one for me, I promise you I will always be true and have no other but you…
BUT THEN SHE ATE FRIES! ON THE SIDE! AND NEVER TOLD THE APPLES.
Wait, this is getting all fucked up.
Ok ok ok, never mind the apple. All this chick eats is fries. Ok? She’s big and fat and greasy and gross— a very successful lawyer, super bright, but super gross physically, but still really successful (which of course wouldn’t be possible in a world where women are judged quite a lot by their looks, but suspend your disbelief with me a bit).
Anyways, she meets a guy, and he’s in perfect shape…let’s say he’s in the kind of shape that —(who was that one poster, the one who doesn’t get why Taiwanese girls have standards other than his own?) let’s say the guy she meets is in the same shape that heynow was in- you know heynow who kept bragging about his height and muscle and stuff?

So fry-eating girl meets heynow online. And she sort of misrepresents herself (much like a guy who goes to prostitutes might) she’s like, oh yeah, I totally love hiking. Oh, you had a salad today? That’s awesome. I totally make salads all the time, I’m super healthy and stuff. yeah I’m all about respecting my body and being healthy.
Whole time she’s mashing McDonald’s fries into her great gaping maw.
And heynow meets her in person and finds out that she’s subsisted on a diet of french fries for years, that she has habits, when it comes to food, that are going to be REALLY hard to change. That her attitudes toward food are intrinsically, somewhere deep inside her, pretty fucked up, and who knows maybe heynow has bulimia, his attitudes toward food might be fucked up too, but they’re fucked up in a different, wholly incompatible way. heynow loves dancing, and he wants a girl he can dance with, and lawyer-fry-eating girl just isn’t capable of sharing that with him. It’s just not going to work. Even if the fry-eater tries to change, really fast. It ain’t gonna work. It’s just too much effort.

So heynow has to start scouring the clubs again for girls that don’t eat too many french fries and don’t like shiny pants. And he’s kind of pissed off that he got all emotionally invested in frygirl who totally misrepresented herself. And he sort of thinks frygirl should stick with fryguys, you know?

It’s not so much that guys who go to prostitutes don’t want to date prostitutes. It’s more that they want to date “normal” girls, without disclosing that they’ve “subsisted on a diet of french fries for the last 5 years.”

Do you think that, by going to prostitutes and, in a way, avoiding healthy, normal, give and take relationships with women, these men might be avoiding learning the lessons that would make them good partners in a relationship? Because looking around me at the guys I know in Taiwan, that’s the sense that I get.

I guess my point is that guys who go to prostitutes are likely developing some ideas about sex, women and money that might not be compatible with the ideas a “normal” girl, and it might make it harder for them to have a satisfying relationship. Much like a prostitute is probably developing some weird ideas about sex, money and men that might not be compatible with a guy who’s never gone to a prostitute.
These different ideas will come up eventually. Time reveals all things, time reveals character.

Anywyas sorry I didn’t express that eloquently I’m kind of in a hurry. I did like your story though, GB, it had me laughing out loud.

17

[quote=“tommy525”]Well basically I think a lot of dudes want their women to perform like ho’s but have a track record like the virgin Mary and it is simply EYES WIDE OPEN time when we find out they have had lots more sex then us, tried more positions and were generally much more perverted !

Its seems ok, as long as we have more hits, i guess. IT may really all be down to numbers. Whos got more “kills”?

Nobody likes to be One-Upped.[/quote]
Good lord Tommy, whatever works for you, I suppose, but I hope you’re not basing it on an idea that it’s always the man who should have more “kills” ( :unamused: ) than the woman.

18

Well I better have MORE “KILLS” Doggone it !!!

19

NTLT,

Wow, you have clearly given a LOT of thought to this issue. To me, this is pretty simple. It’s normal for people to have strong preferences in a potential partner, especially a spouse. For most people, both men and women, fidelity is a deal-breaker. I think it relates back to basic biology. A man wants to make sure his wife’s children are his own, and a woman wants to make sure her husband will provide for their children, not the children of some other woman. On top of that, the fear of STDs is real and ancient. Fidelity is therefore highly desirable, a basic need resulting from 4 billion years of evolution. Nobody wants to marry a whore who routinely screws other people. Beyond that you have the social stigma associated with prostitution, which means nobody wants to marry a former whore either.

All of that holds true, even for people who have slept with whores. Of course, a person is free to reject as a partner/spouse someone who has slept with a whore, but society at large simply does not attach the same social stigma to buying a whore’s services as to being a whore. Sure, they’re both part of the “relationship”, if you can call it that, but they’re in very different roles. If a woman is about to be elected by the board as CEO, and they find out she once paid for a whore’s services, I seriously doubt they’re going to give a damn. She’ll be CEO because she can make them money. It doesn’t hurt that she went to all the right schools, joined the right sorority, knows the right people. But they wouldn’t elect a prostitute or former prostitute, regardless of ability. That’s just the way the world works. Is it unfair? Maybe. It doesn’t really seem that unfair to me. It just seems obvious.

20

[quote=“headhonchoII”]
Women here often openly sell themselves for marriage, so it’s a bit rich to just criticize guys on the other side of the equation. [/quote]
I guess it depends on who you are- if you’re a woman who doesn’t openly sell herself for marriage, I think it’s fair to look at it from the other side of the equation. But I agree that it doesn’t help to criticize… just that it’s fair to choose not to enter into a relationship with someone if you aren’t cool with their past- particularly if you don’t share the same past yourself (eg, I think it’s ok that I say, “I’d rather not date a guy who’s bought sex” when I’ve never prostituted myself, while I think it’s a little unfair for a guy who’s bought sex to say “I’d never date a girl who’s sold herself.”)

[quote]
It’s interesting to hear NT say ‘you can confess anything to me’ and then say the guy is going to be written off when he admits to doing the (paid) deed. [/quote]
It’s not so much “You can confess anything (and I won’t judge)” as “be proud of who you are, be honest about what you’ve done, and let me make my own decision.” An example, I once told a guy I’d never had a one night stand. This was sort of my vetting process before I slept with him— a way of opening up the discussion, of trying to figure out if we have similar feelings about sex. I tend not to want to sleep with guys who sleep around a lot. I might even make the argument that I’d prefer a guy who paid for sex than one who slept with a lot of girls under the (false) understanding that he really liked her a lot and wanted more than just sex from her.
Anyways, he replied that he, too, had never had a one night stand. Then later I found out that he’d bought sex many times. I found that to be a little dishonest (I guess you could argue the semantics of ‘one night stand’). If he’d presented it as, ‘well, I’ve gone to prostitutes, but this is why I did it, this is how I’ve changed, this is how this is different and this is why you should feel ok sleeping with me/trust me,’ It may have gone better. He chose to mislead me instead. The trust was shaken and never recovered.

[quote]
Wouldn’t that teach people the opposite lesson, never be open with your secrets, because the understanding is not there in the end anyway. How’s the guy to know which hidden secret is getting pass the red line that you can never come back from? Maybe this one was fine with the multiple partners, but that time in Amsterdam, the dirty fecker. Maybe this one was fine with the KTV girls when your were single, but can’t stand the fact that you had an affair. Lots of these things are phases in life or once-offs, I’m not sure how much you can read into somebody’s personality unless there’s a trend there. But everybody is entitled to their red lines I guess.[/quote]
Yeah, I think everyone is, particularly if they never crossed that red line themselves.

It’s really interesting to read here because I’ve often made the mistake of thinking that everyone approaches relationships the same way I do, and that’s simply not the case. I’m glad there are some who are similar to me though, as we seem to mesh the best.