Mount or mountain or shan

Another gem of a question from my jr. high darlings…don’t know the answer…help!
Here it is…

“Teacher, In my textbook it says… Mount Ali but it also says Yang Ming Shan. How do I know when to use Mount XXX, XXX Mountain or XXX Shan?”

Hell if I know! Anyone? And how can they teach Yang Ming Shan. :loco: Is that what’s written on signs and maps?

:laughing: :laughing: haven’t you heard people saying they went up the Ali Shan mountain?? and came down Mount Yu shan :smiley:

Yangmingshan (one word, stupid autoedit is also wrong) is not a mountain…its a mountain area. Same with Alishan. So Mt Yangming and Mt Ali are just plain wrong.
Otherwise its a convention issue as to how much you translate and how much you transliterate. i.e. Yushan = Jade Mountain both equally correct. Koh Samui = Samui Island etc.

The park is called Yangmingshan National Park, and it’s what the signs and maps say when done correctly. Same goes with “Alishan National Park”.

I detest the terms Yangming Mountain and Mt. Ali (in neither case is there any mountain by these names, by the way). I’m also dismayed by the fact that at the top of Yushan, there’s an engraving that calls it “Mt. Jade Main Peak”. Ugh.

I’m a big believer in using the -shan suffix for Chinese names of mountains (Dabajianshan, Beichatianshan, Beidawushan, etc.), and only using “Mt.” if the Taiwanese mountain in question has an “English” name (Mt. Morrison, Mt. Sylvia).

To be honest, when I was researching on the Guatemalan guy who climbed Yushan, it seems that in this particular range, each peak has its name. The main one is Mount Jade. At least, that’s how we got it and wrote it in Spanish.

Does the name “mountain” or “mount” or peak depend on height?

As to the mess in the textbook, well, worse things have been published…

Taiwan’s a mess when it comes to romanization, orthography, etc.

But in terms of Hanyu Pinyin, which is what Taiwan has officially adopted (only to ignore in many instances), the rules are clear. When referring to mountains, shan is separate and is capitalized when part of a proper noun, e.g.:
[ul][li]Yangming Shan[/li]
[li]Ali Shan[/li]
[li]Yu Shan[/li][/ul]

This is, of course, just the same as in English, e.g.,
[ul][li]Mount Everest, not Mounteverest or Mount Ev Er Est[/li]
[li]Pikes Peak, not Pikespeak or Pikes peak[/li][/ul]

[quote=“cranky laowai”]But in terms of Hanyu Pinyin, which is what Taiwan has officially adopted (only to ignore in many instances), the rules are clear. When referring to mountains, shan is separate and is capitalized when part of a proper noun, e.g.:
[ul][li]Yangming Shan[/li]
[li]Ali Shan[/li]
[li]Yu Shan[/li][/ul][/quote]
I’m aware of this rule, but it’s one I disagree with and consistently ignore, preferring to tack on the suffix -shan. It just looks better, in my opinion. And when I read “Yangming Shan”, it makes me want to pause between “Yangming” and “Shan”, instead of reading them as three quick syllables in succession.

[quote=“Chris”][quote=“cranky laowai”]But in terms of Hanyu Pinyin, which is what Taiwan has officially adopted (only to ignore in many instances), the rules are clear. When referring to mountains, shan is separate and is capitalized when part of a proper noun, e.g.:
[ul][li]Yangming Shan[/li]
[li]Ali Shan[/li]
[li]Yu Shan[/li][/ul][/quote]
I’m aware of this rule, but it’s one I disagree with and consistently ignore, preferring to tack on the suffix -shan. It just looks better, in my opinion. And when I read “Yangming Shan”, it makes me want to pause between “Yangming” and “Shan”, instead of reading them as three quick syllables in succession.[/quote]

I tend to agree because when we say them we say them as one word; “I’m going to Yangming+shan tomorrow”, “I’m climbing Yushan next week”.

Even in the case of pronunciation, though, the situation, again, is basically the same in English. Consider that most native speakers of English, when speaking conversationally, would not say “Mount [pause] Everest.” They’d say something more like “Moun-deverest.” But writing mount as the separate word it is has not exactly proved a problem in English; quite the contrary: it aids clarity. Writing shan in Mandarin as the separate word it is would be the same.

I’m not trying to make a big deal out of this, though. It’s still more a molehill than a shan when compared with all of Taiwan’s other romanization and orthography problems. Just sayin’ that relying on what you may be used to seeing here is, given how unbelievably FUBAR Taiwan has been with romanization here, not always such a good idea.