There’s been considerable coverage in the UK on the recent MRT racist rant. When visiting TW over the past couple of years I’ve always felt slightly uncomfortable, as though the apparent friendliness may not have been all it seemed. I’ve lived for many years in SE Asia and never encountered this feeling.
I’m due to move permanently to Taipei in April 2016. I must be honest and say I’m starting to have real reservations about this move, based in part on the youtube video and the comments from some locals offering a degree of support to the individual making the racist comments.
So, expats, am I right to worry? Or should I just suck it up? I’m not coming to Taipei to battle against a culture which doesn’t want me to be there. If they don’t really like westerners, fine, I can go elsewhere.
I’ve lived in Taiwan for 15 years and have never encountered someone like him. I’ve had very few problems living here. Sure there are a few hotheaded a-holes out there with chips on their shoulders, but that can be said about anywhere. I’ve found people in Taiwan to be mostly very friendly and helpful. That MRT guy does not represent the Taiwan I know.
Not to minimise your contribution, but I’d be kinda surprised if someone had lived for 15 years in a society without failing to maintain a positive outlook towards that society. It’s not that I’m seeking negative views, but perhaps the views of someone less committed to developing and maintaining a life in TW would be useful.
Perhaps a bit more info would help? I’m male, over 40, married with a young child, don’t need to work (not boasting, just stating a fact), no interest in learning Mandarin, no interest associating closely with the Taiwanese, no interest in chasing Taiwanese girls (or men). Just proposing to move there to follow some of my own interests.
As I said, if there is underlying racism towards whites in Taipei / TW I’ll happily give it a miss and head off elsewhere, leaving the Taiwanese in peace to follow whatever path keeps them happy.
Over 2 decades in Taiwan. never seen anything like the guy on the MRT.
One time about 20 years ago, an old fart at a bus stop gave me and my Taiwanese girlfriend a dirty look and said something bad about mixed couples as he jumped on a departing bus.
Never experienced it either, 15 years here. People generally don’t get in your face about anything really. Might get some curious stares sometimes thats all.
The Internet has its fair share of xenophobic, racist, mysoginist talk, but hey it’s the Internet.
20 years, single, with cockroaches…very isolated incident. You couldn’t find a friendlier country. This whole thing about fake friendliness is just people looking for an angle to have a whinge.
I’m a newbie compared the the others in this thread, I’ve only been here 13 years. But never seen or heard of anything like this. There is the occasional stare, more common in the countryside than Taipei, but then again, my wife (who is Taiwanese) gets the same in Australia when we visit family there.
I’m even more of a newbie than cfimages, having been here only 12 years!
While I have met some jackasses during this time, the situations I have encountered (which I can count on one hand) are avoidable: gangsters making it clear I was not welcome in their teahouse in Taichung (got it, message received); wild-eyed old guy in Taipei yelling that Chen Shui-bian was “just like” Hitler (give me a break); macho guy in Miaoli strutting around the restroom, farting loudly as he urinated (enjoy yourself, man). There may be other cases I’ve forgotten. But remember: this is over a span of twelve years.
Honestly you’d be more at risk from reckless drivers gunning it through a red light or a bleary eyed tour bus driver on a mountain road than you would be from a xenophobe on the MRT. Don’t let that guy determine your options.
So you have been here 20 years, are single, and live with cockroaches?
Ooooh,… you meant the wacko on the MRT.
About 20 years in Taiwan. Had only one encounter like that in recent memory. An old lady dressed like a Buddhist nun (doubt she was a real nun) approached me in an MRT station and said in Chinese something like: “People like you are causing all the troubles.” Still don’t know what she meant by “people like you” and “troubles.”
I don’t even know why that story traveled all the way to the UK. Totally insignificant and not representative of Taiwan at all. If anything, the people in Taiwan shy away from open aggression, especially against foreigners, even if they hate you. It’s usually more subtle than that (read the stories about English teachers getting ripped off by their schools, etc.). Exceptions are road rage and bar fights, I would assume.
Hello fellow Brit. My family and I are in our fifth year in Taiwan. I’ve experienced a negative attitude twice in that time, and neither occasion came anywhere near the rant by that borderline mentally ill man on the MRT. Instead I’ve found day to day encounters more polite and gentler than those with your average Brit, and MRT encounters more civilised than travelling on the Tube. I love Britain, but given the choice I’d stay in Taiwan. Sadly family commitments will send me back to the U.K. in three or so years, and the thought depresses me sometimes.
[quote=“quest”]There’s been considerable coverage in the UK on the recent MRT racist rant. When visiting TW over the past couple of years I’ve always felt slightly uncomfortable, as though the apparent friendliness may not have been all it seemed. I’ve lived for many years in SE Asia and never encountered this feeling.
I’m due to move permanently to Taipei in April 2016. I must be honest and say I’m starting to have real reservations about this move, based in part on the youtube video and the comments from some locals offering a degree of support to the individual making the racist comments.
So, expats, am I right to worry? Or should I just suck it up? I’m not coming to Taipei to battle against a culture which doesn’t want me to be there. If they don’t really like westerners, fine, I can go elsewhere.
Honest opinion please.[/quote]
Why does it have to be “permanent” your planned move to Taiwan? Just go there and live for awhile and see if it all pans out? If not, you said you can be elsewhere so, then go elsewhere.
My thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I note your comments and, rest assured, they’re of considerable use in helping me come to a final decision.
tommy525, you asked ‘why permanent’? Basically to offer a stable life / education to the little fellow. I spent most of my life up to university age changing schools / countries every six months and swore I wouldn’t do the same to my own child. Trust me, the disadvantages of a ‘world education’ far outweigh the advantages.
[quote=“quest”]
Perhaps a bit more info would help? I’m male, over 40, married with a young child, don’t need to work (not boasting, just stating a fact), no interest in learning Mandarin, no interest associating closely with the Taiwanese, no interest in chasing Taiwanese girls (or men). Just proposing to move there to follow some of my own interests.
As I said, if there is underlying racism towards whites in Taipei / TW I’ll happily give it a miss and head off elsewhere, leaving the Taiwanese in peace to follow whatever path keeps them happy.[/quote]
I’m curious. If you’re not here to learn Mandarin, what other interests are there in Taiwan that you can’t get elsewhere? And how are you going to move here permanently if you can’t get an ARC? You can’t get an ARC without a job. If you’re a Brit, then you probably don’t have family here (unless you’ve got some Taiwanese roots).
Racism is everywhere you go if you are in the minority. That’s just an unfortunate fact. There will always be someone who is racist wherever you go. If you’re lucky, you’ll never meet them. But the odds are you will, whether it be manifested as a microaggression or like the guy in the video.
I had something quite similar happen to me last year, and it ended up in court.
So that’s once in 18 years.
Not to be a party pooper, but I think we are going to see more racist and even violent incidents in the coming years. It’s hard to imagine how we wouldn’t, given the state of the economy, and the vast underclass that is being produced by low wages, low opportunities, low social mobility, and appalling education (many schools now have almost no permanent teachers, just subs) in many parts of the country.
Taiwan is not spending, either energy or capital, on its future. It’s not likely to end well.
Gryphon; my wife is Taiwanese And it’s not so much ‘interests that I can’t get elsewhere’ as it is ‘interests I have that TW (as yet) doesn’t’. And if that sounds evasive, let’s leave it that way, 'k?
Are you being unduly pessimistic, Mucha Man, or can you point me towards stats to back up your (interesting and perhaps valid) perspective?
I agree with MM. But at the same time, it’s not a huge problem, or worse than most places in Asia. Scratch the surface in many countries, and there are attitudes you won’t like. I’m not sure where in Asia you would find a place that ‘likes westerners’. Tolerated because economically useful, yes, ‘welcomed’, not sure.
Just come, see if you’re comfortable, and go if you aren’t. It seems an odd criterion from which to reject a place, especially in the face of things that definitely will affect you such as food safety or air pollution.
Just adding my voice to the list here. I’ve been here almost 20 years now. NEVER encountered anything remotely as nasty as this asshole on the MRT. Was shouted at once years ago “臭老美” stinky old American (of which I’m neither) but it was likely a minor traffic thing, perceived cut-off or something. I thought the guy yelled out “salami” and was just really enthusiastic about sandwich meat.
[quote=“quest”]Gryphon; my wife is Taiwanese And it’s not so much ‘interests that I can’t get elsewhere’ as it is ‘interests I have that TW (as yet) doesn’t’. And if that sounds evasive, let’s leave it that way, 'k?
Are you being unduly pessimistic, Mucha Man, or can you point me towards stats to back up your (interesting and perhaps valid) perspective?[/quote]
You are not really giving much away according to your motivations or background but then stated you wanted to permanently move to Taiwan, so hard to give input. you wouldn’t be trying to OPEN A HOT DOG STAND would you. :roflmao:
Even though I’m one who tends to post pessimistic stuff from time to time I wouldn’t be so pessimistic about Taiwan, it’ll probably continue mostly on its course of the fairly rich North and crappy hinterland, with a goodly mix of pollution and overdevelopment thrown in with improvements in other areas. It’s a place that’s ironically very stable and doesn’t tend to change very much over time (things do change but very slowly) , MM touched on that already, so it doesn’t have much of the promise or energy of societies which are on the cusp of radical change, but doesn’t have the danger or upheaval either I suppose. It’s comfortably under control of the moneyed elites and government class to exploit. Things tend to work (except for the police and judiciary) so it’s an easy place to live once you can deal with the language, the food, the climate and the crowds. Not having to work in Taiwan would be a major plus overall, I’d say you’ll miss some social insights but you really wouldn’t be missing anything to be honest.
Racism is definitely NOT on the radar as far as expats go (mostly
You have to deal with awkward behavior from locals who can be a bit weird or even verging of fearful of interactions with foreigners) there’s a lot of shameful human rights abuse of caregivers though.
I love that! Definitely a line for the tourism brochures and commercials to make use of. “Taiwan - comfortably under control of the moneyed elites to exploit!” With a picture of Taroko Gorge.
Oh, I’ve been here 16 years (my lord), and I’ve never encountered anything remotely similar to the MRT incident. If you’re coming here to start or further develop a career, I wouldn’t currently recommend Taiwan, but for a place to live comfortably? Sure.
You don’t need to worry at all about the attitudes seen in that video. You DO need to worry about the driving, the toxicity of the cheap food, the ugliness of pretty much [strike]all the cities[/strike] [strike], nah, make that all the urban development[/strike], nah, make that anything modified by human hands (except the occasional temple), and the pollution. Those are the reasons I sometimes want to leave.
Yep if there’s one epithet that fair it would be ‘ugly man made structures’. It’s no paradise no matter how many YouTube bloggers fly in and out for a week and starry eyed people from Flatplains Iowa call it so !
I’ve lived here for similar to lostinasia and they still
Amaze me from time to time. Just awful awful apartment building thrown together with cheap material waiting decades to be knocked down again and unloved by the people who live in them. And yes it’s a problem pretty much everywhere.
Air Pollution- he can look up my thread on that. I started that thread a few years ago only yesterday was the first protest in Taichung science park against their expansion due to air pollution emissions (previous protests were due to tree felling and water pollution!). Years later and billions of dollars short, wasted investments in non functioning power stations and misdirection of environmental groups focus against nuclear power instead of dirty coal and scooters…
At least the situation is being recognized now, which probably means peak air pollution is going to be hit in the next few years and you may get relatively clean air in 20 years. Yes that’s how slow things move here, too much money invested the elites want to make their investment back first thank you very much. Look at story of Kaohsiung refinery as an example. This is the kind of stuff you should know if you are thinking of moving ‘permanently’ to somewhere.
And it’s not so much ‘interests that I can’t get elsewhere’ as it is ‘interests I have that TW (as yet) doesn’t’. And if that sounds evasive, let’s leave it that way, 'k?
!