Back in WWII days, there was an unofficial US Air Force stationed in China, named Flying Tiger. Among the maintenance crew, a Chinese and a black American became very close buddies. The black guy uses a nickname, Darkie. When the war was over, everyone went their own civilian way. This Chinese guy founded a company to make toothpaste, and name it in honor of his best friend, Darkie.
I knew this story as a kid, well over forty years ago. Just can’t find any reference to it with Google.
[quote=“LPeterC”]Back in WWII days, there was an unofficial US Air Force stationed in China, named Flying Tiger. Among the maintenance crew, a Chinese and a black American became very close buddies. The black guy uses a nickname, Darkie. When the war was over, everyone went their own civilian way. This Chinese guy founded a company to make toothpaste, and name it in honor of his best friend, Darkie.
I knew this story as a kid, well over forty years ago. Just can’t find any reference to it with Google.[/quote]
Quite a story. Any truth to that?
[quote=“tommy525”][quote=“LPeterC”]Back in WWII days, there was an unofficial US Air Force stationed in China, named Flying Tiger. Among the maintenance crew, a Chinese and a black American became very close buddies. The black guy uses a nickname, Darkie. When the war was over, everyone went their own civilian way. This Chinese guy founded a company to make toothpaste, and name it in honor of his best friend, Darkie.
I knew this story as a kid, well over forty years ago. Just can’t find any reference to it with Google.[/quote]
Quite a story. Any truth to that?[/quote]
Even if that was true back then, it hasn’t been a decent name for a product since at least civil rights in 64, yet it only just recently got changed, and even now it’s essentially called Darkie still in Chinese. Damn Colgate, damn them to hell!
[quote=“LPeterC”]Back in WWII days, there was an unofficial US Air Force stationed in China, named Flying Tiger. Among the maintenance crew, a Chinese and a black American became very close buddies. The black guy uses a nickname, Darkie. When the war was over, everyone went their own civilian way. This Chinese guy founded a company to make toothpaste, and name it in honor of his best friend, Darkie.
I knew this story as a kid, well over forty years ago. Just can’t find any reference to it with Google.[/quote]
Smells like teen spirit to me.
First of all, Chennault’s meagre staff was part of the ROC air force in name, mercenary by nature.
Last of all, who would name their best black friend “darkie”?
Out the window, this is.
[quote=“TwoTongues”][quote=“tommy525”][quote=“LPeterC”]Back in WWII days, there was an unofficial US Air Force stationed in China, named Flying Tiger. Among the maintenance crew, a Chinese and a black American became very close buddies. The black guy uses a nickname, Darkie. When the war was over, everyone went their own civilian way. This Chinese guy founded a company to make toothpaste, and name it in honor of his best friend, Darkie.
I knew this story as a kid, well over forty years ago. Just can’t find any reference to it with Google.[/quote]
Quite a story. Any truth to that?[/quote]
Even if that was true back then, it hasn’t been a decent name for a product since at least civil rights in 64, yet it only just recently got changed, and even now it’s essentially called Darkie still in Chinese. Damn Colgate, damn them to hell![/quote]
It wasn’t considered racial back then. Sure, blacks were prejudiced against by whites back then. But, in Chinas, during war, Chinese was just as disadvantaged.
Darkie toothpaste did get sued, two or three decades ago, by some American, presuming a black lawyer seeing an opportunity to make a windfall. The whole thing got blown into an international political issue. Taiwanese government stepped in, forcing them to change name.
Whoa ho ho there cowboy, that’s a wee bit beyond the call of duty. Unless you know it was a black lawyer and he was a money-grubber, that statement borders on racist.
[quote=“Wikipedia”]Due to changing sensibilities regarding race and racism and efforts by certain interest groups, blatantly racist branding practices common in earlier decades began to end in the 1950s. In much the same way the tobacco brand name Nigger Hair had become Bigger Hare, the name of the toothpaste was changed in English-speaking markets to “Darlie” after the 1985 acquisition. Along with the name change, the image on the packaging was altered to reflect a less stereotypical, more contemporary one in much the same way the trademark character for Aunt Jemima pancake mix evolved over time.
However, the Chinese name of the brand, “黑人牙膏” (in English, “Black Man Toothpaste”), has not changed; in fact, a Chinese-language advertising campaign reassured customers that “Black Man Toothpaste is still Black Man Toothpaste”.[citation needed] This is because the term 黑人 (black man) does not have any negative meaning in Chinese.[citation needed] The phrase 黑人 in Chinese is a general term for persons of sub-Saharan African descent.[citation needed] Darlie continues to be one of the best selling brands of toothpaste in Taiwan.[citation needed][/quote]
Yeah they better f-ing come up with a citation - the three Chinese people I immediately work with (yes I use the term “work” liberally here to include posting on forumosa) all agree that though hei ren literally just means black man and literally isn’t in itself negative, that calling someone hei for dark skinned is absolutely a pejorative, as any Chinese woman with a mother who’s gone to the beach and gotten the slightest bit brown can attest to.
But alright, it doesn’t have the same negative meaning as “N**ger”.
Whoa ho ho there cowboy, that’s a wee bit beyond the call of duty. Unless you know it was a black lawyer and he was a money-grubber, that statement borders on racist.[/quote]
No…it is NOT a racist comment nor does it “border” on being one. It is a statement of his belief in the matter. Lacking in substantiation, at this point, but still only a stated belief. And its absurd to try and intimidate LPC with that kind of accusatory statement.
[quote]My apology. Just made the logical assumption that someone would only accuse others of racist to his/her own race.[/quote]Get yer facts - then make the post. It saves much face. And be careful with those ass-umptions.[quote]Come to think about it, that is definitely not true. Black lawyers don’t belong to the greedy bunch.[/quote]Being Black does not exclude one from being “racist” or from being “greedy.”
Just ask Jackie Chiles…
Whoa ho ho there cowboy, that’s a wee bit beyond the call of duty. Unless you know it was a black lawyer and he was a money-grubber, that statement borders on racist.[/quote]
No…it is NOT a racist comment nor does it “border” on being one. It is a statement of his belief in the matter. Lacking in substantiation, at this point, but still only a stated belief. And its absurd to try and intimidate LPC with that kind of accusatory statement.[/quote]
I’m sure you truly feel that way in the Bizarro world you live in, TC, to us in the real world, that’s borderline bigotry
And what the hell you talking about intimidation, this is a forum, not an ultimate fighting bout
[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote]My apology. Just made the logical assumption that someone would only accuse others of racist to his/her own race.[/quote]Get yer facts - then make the post. It saves much face. And be careful with those ass-umptions.[quote]Come to think about it, that is definitely not true. Black lawyers don’t belong to the greedy bunch.[/quote]Being Black does not exclude one from being “racist” or from being “greedy.”
Just ask Jackie Chiles…
[/quote]
I am telling a history that I have personally been through. If you need hard evidence, as if we are in court, I did provide the possible sources, which I have no access to. All those speculations from googled sources and wikipedia are just that. Admittedly, I do not have perfect memory. But, this story of Darkie toothpaste did leave a deep enough imprint that what I wrote is not too far off. I do recall the founder telling the story in newspaper. You don’t have to believe me, but you should research for concrete evidence to back youself up.
By the way, do you know that in those days in Shanghai, certain parks have policy, and signs, that says “Chinese and Dogs Not Admitted”. Tell me that isn’t racism. In those days, is wasn’t unusual for Chinese to be called chink, nor black get to be called nig. Such nicknames may be racially biased, but may also be intimate in a way. I’ve been through it in my high school days. It is pretty ridiculous, wih Obama, a black, as president of US, that some people are still trying to blow racism way out of proportion.
TC, the link of whatever you put up is calling you a jerk and thief.
[quote=“LPeterC”][quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“LPeterC”]Back in WWII days, there was an unofficial US Air Force stationed in China, named Flying Tiger. Among the maintenance crew, a Chinese and a black American became very close buddies. The black guy uses a nickname, Darkie. When the war was over, everyone went their own civilian way. This Chinese guy founded a company to make toothpaste, and name it in honor of his best friend, Darkie.
I knew this story as a kid, well over forty years ago. Just can’t find any reference to it with Google.[/quote]
Smells like teen spirit to me.
First of all, Chennault’s meagre staff was part of the ROC air force in name, mercenary by nature.
Last of all, who would name their best black friend “darkie”?
Out the window, this is.[/quote]
No need to argue historical facts with a young and naive racist. :raspberry:[/quote]
You shouldn’t self-deprecate in such a manner. It might lead to actual awareness of just what ignominy led many others to give up the ghost. You might be young, and naive, and callow, but give it some time. Maybe the penny will drop, but I for one ain’t holding me breath.
There’s an idiot wind blustering, perhaps one might do well to grab a lacklustre leaf, and hold on? It might just be your only chance of not being shot out of the sky, though some might take compassion on a pig on the wing.
Not me though, I take vehement exception to swinish kants of the first order. Colonel Kurtz was right.
Exterminate The Brutes.
Et Tu?
LPC -
Yeah, I get called the “jerk” part by a certain ilk…the “thief” one is new.
I guess its about bandwidth of the picture of Jackie Chiles. I found it on google images…sin loi.
[quote=“LPeterC”]Back in WWII days, there was an unofficial US Air Force stationed in China, named Flying Tiger. Among the maintenance crew, a Chinese and a black American became very close buddies. The black guy uses a nickname, Darkie. When the war was over, everyone went their own civilian way. This Chinese guy founded a company to make toothpaste, and name it in honor of his best friend, Darkie.
I knew this story as a kid, well over forty years ago. Just can’t find any reference to it with Google.[/quote]
Myth.
Darkie toothpaste was made in Hong Kong starting in 1930 by a British firm, Hawley & Hazel Chemical Co. … Jolson’s wide smile and bright teeth, the executive thought, would be the ideal image for toothpaste.
– The Art and History of Black Memorabilia - Larry Vincent Buster
It is purported to have taken place in the 1940s. It was a different time then.
[quote=“Surf Punk”][quote=“LPeterC”]Back in WWII days, there was an unofficial US Air Force stationed in China, named Flying Tiger. Among the maintenance crew, a Chinese and a black American became very close buddies. The black guy uses a nickname, Darkie. When the war was over, everyone went their own civilian way. This Chinese guy founded a company to make toothpaste, and name it in honor of his best friend, Darkie.
I knew this story as a kid, well over forty years ago. Just can’t find any reference to it with Google.[/quote]
Myth.
Darkie toothpaste was made in Hong Kong starting in 1930 by a British firm, Hawley & Hazel Chemical Co. … Jolson’s wide smile and bright teeth, the executive thought, would be the ideal image for toothpaste.
– The Art and History of Black Memorabilia - Larry Vincent Buster[/quote]
Good one, Surf Punk.
Here’s the same thing from another source:
[quote]The Darkie name and logo were conceived in the 1920’s after Hawley and Hazel’s chief executive visited the United States and saw the singer Al Jolson. His wide smile and bright white teeth, the executive thought, would make an excellent toothpaste logo.[/quote]–Blackface, White Noise: Jewish Immigrants in the Hollywood Melting Pot, quoting The International Herald Tribune, January 29, 1989
Uh-oh, some of you are not going to like this:
[quote]Church groups, represented by the Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility, say both the name of the toothpaste and its package design . . . are racially offensive.
In return for the company’s [i.e., Colgate-Palmolive’s] decision to drop the logo, three Roman Catholic religious orders are dropping a shareholder resolution challenging the company practice.[/quote]–“Colgate will change name, design of ‘Darkie’ toothpaste,” The Deseret News (Salt Lake City, Utah), February 25, 1987
Yeah…I remember this, the controversy was in the newspapers a lot back in the mid 1980s. Hong Kong based Hawley and Hazel marketed the Darkie brand toothpaste throughout Asia and I remember Eddie Murphy coming to Thailand during the time I was residing there and he made a really big stink about the racism, etc. etc. Tina Turner also joined Eddie Murphy in protesting it, too. When Colgate bought the Darkie brand in 1985 they decided to change the name to Darlie so as to be less offensive.
I found a reference.
[quote]We have seen Darlie toothpaste in almost all the shopping places in Thailand. It was never available in India but has been pretty popular in South East Asia, Hong Kong and China. It has an interesting story related to its name.
Darlie (Traditional Chinese: 黑人 hēirén, or “black man”) is a toothpaste brand of the Hong Kong based company Hawley & Hazel. It was bought in 1985 by the US corporation Colgate-Palmolive. At that time the original name was “Darkie”. Darky, or darkie, is a racist term used primarily in the Southern United States to refer to black people. The package featured an image of a wide-eyed, smiling dark-skinned African male wearing a top hat and tie.
Due to changing sensibilities regarding race and racism and efforts by certain interest groups, the name of the toothpaste was changed in English markets to “Darlie” after the 1985 merger. Along with the name change, the image on the packaging was altered to reflect a less stereotypical, more contemporary African male.
The name change placated Western critics, who pointed out that the toothpaste actually sold better after the name change. What they didn’t know, and apparently still don’t, is that only the English was changed. The Cantonese name (“Haak Yahn Nga Gou”) still stayed the same, and the Chinese-language ads reassured users that, despite a cosmetic change to placate those inscrutable Westerners, “Black Man Toothpaste is still Black Man Toothpaste.”
Stereotypes of this sort were not unusual before World War II. What was unusual about Darkie was that its racist name and logo were still intact in 1985 when Colgate bought the brand from the Hong Kong’s Hawley & Hazel Chemical Co.
Here’s where the story gets a little twisted. According to Alecia Swasy in her book Soap Opera, Colgate’s arch-rival Procter & Gamble learned about the sale and immediately went to work to use it to their advantage. Both companies were releasing a tartar-control formula that year, and P&G was happy to have the opportunity to portray its rival as racist. It hired a public relations firm to surreptitiously slip information to activists and newspapers about Colgate’s disreputable Asian brand.
The strategy worked. There was a storm of uproar: Stories and editorials in major newspapers, threats of boycotts, and even Eddie Murphy expressing his outrage on David Letterman. Colgate was unfairly attacked for a brand it had just purchased; however, the attacks became more and more justified as the toothpaste giant dragged its feet on changing the brand fearing a loss of business. Finally, nearly four years later, it announced that it was changing the name to Darlie and making the man on the package an abstraction of indeterminent race.
[/quote]
H&H, not Colgate at all.
But still vehemently racist! “Hey, get the smile of a Black Man with your toothpaste.”
Glad they don’t sell penis enlargements.
There were restrictions against the entry of Chinese into Shanghai’s Huangpu Park in the 1920s and earlier (which would be before the time you were referring to). Yes, these restrictions were racist. But, no, there were never signs in Shanghai parks that specifically stated “Chinese and Dogs Not Admitted”.
There were restrictions against the entry of Chinese into Shanghai’s Huangpu Park in the 1920s and earlier (which would be before the time you were referring to). Yes, these restrictions were racist. But, no, there were never signs in Shanghai parks that specifically stated “Chinese and Dogs Not Admitted”.[/quote]
OK. Perhaps not. By that’s what we were taught back in elementary school.
Wikipedia does provide some more information, including a photo of park regulation sign:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangpu_Park
[quote]1. The Gardens are reserved for the Foreign Community.[/quote]That, essentially means no Chinese allowed.
[quote]4. Dogs and bicycles are not admitted.[/quote]That takes care of the dog part.
So, the myth was in reality a condensed form of this sign.
Racism did exist, and always will be. When I was in high school, back in the States, more than a few times had I been call Chink by some whites bullies. I did make a friend that we call each other Chink and Nigger. And my room mate at the time happened to be a Jew.
Seems that only those that are very insecure and lacking in confidence would really care about these racial name-calling.
As for the Darkie Toothpaste story. It may be a myth. But, I am quite sure that I did read it somewhere. Seems to be an interview of the original founder. The origin of this toothpaste, according to my google search, was not Hongkong, but Shanghai in the 20’s. Too bad, my dad can no longer communicate with me from the other dimension. He knew a lot of history that have been distorted by the historians. Should’ve spend more time with him then.
Surf Punk -
Thanks for the update and cool avatar.
LPC -
I like the the Flying Tiger/Friend tie-in with the Darkie toothpaste…but it looks like its just a war time legend…or post-wartime legend. So be it.
I can understand, in another era, using the gleaming white teeth of a Black man to portray whiteness…contrast and all that.
Heck, its a common thing to tell soldiers not to smile at night because of the reflection off their teeth could be picked up by light amplification gear. Of course the current generation of low light and thermal imaging gear renders this small potatoes.
hell…I grew up eating…
Still think its the best going.
“Awesome” used to mean literally “a thing that inspires awe”, like a towering cathedral. Should we all refuse to use the word in its current meaning because of what it meant back then?
Languages change. Cultures change. And cultures are different. As has been correctly pointed out, “hei ren” doesn’t mean “darkie”. “Hei gui” would. Anyway, Darkie/Darlie toothpaste was awful stuff. Foamed and foamed and foamed without ceasing. But there was nothing else available the first year I lived in Taiwan.