Neighbour crisis. Help!

This is ongoing. We’ve had broken glass put in our letter box, and nearly all our family’s shoes have been stolen from outside the apartment door.

Two weeks ago we got a phone call: “Are you the lot that keep pushing the furniture back and forth?” I did a double take, stayed really polite, and established that it was the downstairs neighbours complaining about noise from our flat. I said that yes we do have a rather heavy chair and perhaps we are a bit lazy about lifting chairs up instead of pulling them so we’ll stop.

They know our phone number because of the way the internal phone system works here.

Then she said well the other thing is can you stop running and stamping in your flat as well. I said well we don’t really run and stamp, but the kids do run around. We’ll talk to the older one, but the little one is not yet two so I’m not sure there’s much I can do.

Can’t you hold him then?( 你們不能抱他嗎?) Well, no, we can’t really hold him all the time. How about putting carpets down? Well… like I said, we’ll do what we can.

But you make so much noise, and so early in the morning. Well, we get up about 6, and we’re all out of the house by 8… I should have thought that kind of time… We work nights, that’s the time when we’re just trying to get to sleep. And we’re looking after sick, old people in our flat, she says, and you’re disturbing them too.

I put kiddy socks on the really heavy chair. We made sure to pick up the furniture. She started phoning every morning and whining about the noise… can’t you stop that baby crying, what’s that banging, what’s that stomping noise (just me walking normally across the living room).

If you can’t improve we’re going to have to get other people to sort it out.

Next thing was phone calls consisting only of obscenities in Taiwanese. Then eight, nine , ten calls in succession, no talking at all.

Then a pile of sodden newspapers, mail taken out of other people’s letter boxes, and two bits of broken glass.

We told security here… the service centre here… the police. The police came round, they all say the same thing. Oh that’s terrible. Broken glass. Oh but that’s ridiculous. Of course you can’t stop a two-tear old from moving around the flat. Action? Zilch. One of the policemen said he was going to take a note for the record, and he wrote his note with a pen he borrowed from us in a blank page of his new 2006 diary.

The police won’t do any sort of investigation without firm proof that the neighbours put the glass there.

And then yesterday all our shoes disappeared. Well, not exactly… one shoe from each pair.

My wife went down with a security guard, pointlessly, and asked them politely if they knew anything about the shoes. She lied that she was asking all the other neighbours as well. Whatever, the guy just said no, he didn’t take them, of course.

Our older boy is really upset. He wants to go and cut the man’s willy off and poo in the woman’s shoes. So do I, although of course I won’t.

Just don’t know what they might try next. Short of breaking in (don’ t think so) our car seems a likely target.

What shall I do?

Is there a superintendent who handles things in the building? I would suggest going to him/her and having him/her help find out what’s going, while informing him that you are willing to sit down and talk about things with the neighbors. While you’re at it also inform that you will install a security camera outside your door if this kind of behavior persists.

Since the police have already become involved, I’d also invite them back every single time something like this happens.

Making noise is one thing, but theft and broken glass in your mailbox is criminal behavior.

When I get crank calls, I like to say “I love you” again and again. It’s one of the few things most Taiwanese can understand and I’m sure it confuses them. :slight_smile:

Good luck.

jds

Why not? :wink:

Doesn’t sound like you have too many options really.

  1. Move to a new apartment with reasonable neigbours.
  2. Carpet your entire place with really thick carpeting (probably cost you more than moving into a new place).
  3. Declare WAR :smiling_imp: … Put sugar in their scooter’s/car’s gas tank, burn all of their shoes, have tap dancing competitions in your apartment, start an amateur sumo wrestling/drinking club in your apartment, invest in a mini drumkit for your 2 your old. (This is a joke, mods)

Seriously, sounds like these people are psychotic. Get away from them, quickly.

Try getting your Lizhang to mediate the dispute.

Security camera - even a fake one.

Cheap short range motion alarms are also good for when they take shoes - the alarm goes off and they run away. They will also know they are being watched.

I agree–get a security camera. Also, put up laminated notices around your floor. It sound like some teen kids might be involved with this. I had a spat with neighbors and the superintendant was very helpful, so try that too, if possible.

Thanks all. The security camera we will consider (we spent a couple of grand on a telephone recording device, then the phone calls stopped, so perhaps the camera will have the same effect?)

The service center and security here don’t seem too keen on getting involved (this is Lotus Hill, by the way), beyond expressing sentiments of sympathy. Maybe the lizhang would intervene, I’ll look into that, thanks Feiren. But the problem is the peeps are just going to just deny all involvement, whoever we bring in. And in the absence of proof positive, no-one can really do anything.

I wouldn’t bother trying to reason with people who put broken glass in your letterbox. As you are well aware by the police couldn’t give a damn about anything, and your so-called building security guard is merely a decoration.

The next time something like this happens make as much noise as you possibly can. Whoever complains first is your culprit. Whilst poking the ignorant benighted coward who put glass in your letterbox hard in the chest make it very clear that you WILL kill the fucker the next time anything like this happens.

I have always found suddenly explosive and unrestrained violence works best with these cowardly types. Reasoning with people who put glass in letterboxes gets you nowhere.

Well…I think you should try to understand what is behind this.
They obviously feel imperiled by your Western ways and attitudes that call into question their traditional Confusican life experience.
You must understand that they are experiencing pangs of confusion and angst as they see the Western values people like you are bringing to their island. They are merely reacting from the fear and paranois this creates in their life experience.
Quite obviously they see all of the imperialistic Western actions world-wide as being visited upon them by you and your family having larger furniture. And your moving it reaffirms the capitalistic possesions that they know they can never afford.
To have this time and again intrude upon their life experience must be horrible for them to deal wityh every night & day.
I think you should ask their forgiveness and seek to learn more about them and their simple but advanced traditional life experience. Shed the Western baggage you bring and truly seek to understand the turmoil you have brouht into their life experience.
Ask them to forgive and teach you.

Naaaw…I’m just kidding. Tell them you’re tired of their sh*t and will personally beat them in the dark if it continues.

I agree with the security camera idea. Don’t chose violence, as much as you must feel like it. You might end up the recipient of lighter fluid under the door. You have your family to consider, of course.

Is there any way to actually make the cops do their jobs? At this point there should at least be some sort of official file on record. A repeated harrassment complaint should at least lead to an investigation. Taiwanese don’t trust or enjoy cops asking questions for any reason. I reckon the authorities sticking their nose in things would shut people up pretty quickly.

But I’m just thinking out loud about a perfect world. Consider moving?

They need to see evidence, which it seems they havn’t got so far.
I wonder how many people try to stitch up their neighbours by telling the cops that they have put glass in the letter box and have stolen a shoe from each pair.

Has th IP really got evidence. Sure, all fingers point to him/them but until you see them actually doing it either personally or through a video camera, theres bugger all you can do. And thats how the police see it.

Of course, there is the tinyest percentage that it isn’t your neighbours.

[quote=“canucktyuktuk”]I agree with the security camera idea. Don’t chose violence, as much as you must feel like it. You might end up the recipient of lighter fluid under the door. You have your family to consider, of course.

Is there any way to actually make the cops do their jobs? At this point there should at least be some sort of official file on record. A repeated harrassment complaint should at least lead to an investigation. Taiwanese don’t trust or enjoy cops asking questions for any reason. I reckon the authorities sticking their nose in things would shut people up pretty quickly.

But I’m just thinking out loud about a perfect world. Consider moving?[/quote]

I don’t think they’re gangster types, but you never know here really. And I do have the family to consider, so I won’t be doing anything silly. There’s really no point confronting them at all? Would it be worth fronting up and demanding loudly and insistently that they return the shoes? Or would that just make matters worse?

Feiren, do you have details of how to contact the lizhang? Do you know of a case where this kind of mediation has worked? Again, without solid evidence, I doubt they’d take any action.

I guess in the West the police would initially assume the neighbours were the culprits, and assist you in getting the requisite evidence, perhaps by checking the house over for shoes. Or maybe not. Anyway if you got your shoes nicked in the UK they’d say serves you right for leaving them outside twit.

Ho hum. Guess we’ll have to practise walking around the flat like M0nster’s avatar. That or move.

Personally, I’d take all their shoes and wait until they offer to exchange hostages. I’d also booby-trap any other shoes I had outside. :smiling_imp:

Seriously, though, demanding your shoes back would appear weak. Telling them that their rude behavior has burned their bridges with you and that you are not going to be considerate of them any longer would be more likely to get you what you want.

I would seriously stop being friendly and make as much noise as I wanted. Remove the coverings from the heavy chair and not worry about what hours you keep anymore. And the next time they confront you, explain in icy cold tones that it was their lack of courtesy that lead to this.

Get the security camera. Confront them. Let them know what you think of their phone calls and just how big of losers they are for resorting to childish pranks. Let them know that YOU know where THEY live, and if they cross the line you have the capacity to make them wish they hadn’t.

One thing I can’t stand is bullies. Makes my blood boil.

Offer to trade floors with them.

keep shoes inside, open mailbox carefully, make unholy amount of “normal” (think pushing chairs weighted with dictionaries around, not a jackhammer) noise on floor, respond to phone calls RUDELY, make it clear that A. you don’t have live in a dormitory and they are not the principal. B. asshole behavior will be met by asshole noise–AND YOU HAVE THE UPPER HAND :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp: remind them police have been called and that if they want to live in a more quiet atmosphere they will have to be human, don’t let them think that by intimidating you they will gain quiet. if this seems unfeasible, i’d move.

Why don’t you post a notice next to the elevator in your lobby listing EXACTLY what you did to address the problems that your neighbor pointed out…say you are sorry for these problems but you are making an effort to improve the situation…afterwards, list the annoying pranks/harassment that you have been encountering…tell them to please cease because they are being immature and unreasonable…I think if your other neighbors knew the whole story and the whole building knew the situation…then she/he might shy off from her/his actions…

After the post, you will most likely encounter neighbors who want to know more about the situation and just explain it to them…Taiwan apartment buildings love gossip, and if you portray that you were originally a little noisy, but understanding that it might be disturbing those below…and you have made an effort to improve the situation…but the neighbor is still being unreasonable…they will definitely say negative things about the neighbor and the rumour will go back to him/her to the point he/she will sorta back off…

It seems your building manager and the police are no use…if just communicating the problem straightforward for the entire building and your problem neighbor to see is not working, then I would just move…although it is not convenient, there is no point in escalating the situation…you encounter a lot more problems with neighbors because people in Taipei live in such close proximity…tension rises and people get rude and unpleasant…no point in playing this game…

[quote=“Pluck-A-Duck”]Why don’t you post a notice next to the elevator in your lobby listing EXACTLY what you did to address the problems that your neighbor pointed out…say you are sorry for these problems but you are making an effort to improve the situation…afterwards, list the annoying pranks/harassment that you have been encountering…tell them to please cease because they are being immature and unreasonable…I think if your other neighbors knew the whole story and the whole building knew the situation…then she/he might shy off from her/his actions…

After the post, you will most likely encounter neighbors who want to know more about the situation and just explain it to them…Taiwan apartment buildings love gossip, and if you portray that you were originally a little noisy, but understanding that it might be disturbing those below…and you have made an effort to improve the situation…but the neighbor is still being unreasonable…they will definitely say negative things about the neighbor and the rumour will go back to him/her to the point he/she will sorta back off…

It seems your building manager and the police are no use…if just communicating the problem straightforward for the entire building and your problem neighbor to see is not working, then I would just move…although it is not convenient, there is no point in escalating the situation…you encounter a lot more problems with neighbors because people in Taipei live in such close proximity…tension rises and people get rude and unpleasant…no point in playing this game…[/quote]
Actually, I think that’s very good advice!

BTW, which building do you live in? I’m in B7, and I never have a problem with my neighbors. Are you in one of the A Buildings perchance? For some reason, the smaller flats there seem to attract more pain-in-the-ass type local tenants…

Get to know some people in the KMT … go out drinking with them … develop some “guanxi” … they have people who “take care of problems” … no worries! :wink:

[quote=“Maoman”][quote=“Pluck-A-Duck”]Why don’t you post a notice next to the elevator in your lobby listing EXACTLY what you did to address the problems that your neighbor pointed out…say you are sorry for these problems but you are making an effort to improve the situation…afterwards, list the annoying pranks/harassment that you have been encountering…tell them to please cease because they are being immature and unreasonable…I think if your other neighbors knew the whole story and the whole building knew the situation…then she/he might shy off from her/his actions…

After the post, you will most likely encounter neighbors who want to know more about the situation and just explain it to them…Taiwan apartment buildings love gossip, and if you portray that you were originally a little noisy, but understanding that it might be disturbing those below…and you have made an effort to improve the situation…but the neighbor is still being unreasonable…they will definitely say negative things about the neighbor and the rumour will go back to him/her to the point he/she will sorta back off…

It seems your building manager and the police are no use…if just communicating the problem straightforward for the entire building and your problem neighbor to see is not working, then I would just move…although it is not convenient, there is no point in escalating the situation…you encounter a lot more problems with neighbors because people in Taipei live in such close proximity…tension rises and people get rude and unpleasant…no point in playing this game…[/quote]
Actually, I think that’s very good advice!

BTW, which building do you live in? I’m in B7, and I never have a problem with my neighbors. Are you in one of the A Buildings perchance? For some reason, the smaller flats there seem to attract more pain-in-the-ass type local tenants…[/quote]

This really works - strength in numbers; the more people know about your situation, the less likely your nemesis is likely to continue for fear of being outed. Seen it in action a few times in a few different instances and works way better than confrontation. It’s that whole fear of public disapproval/humiliation thing.

[quote=“citizen k”][quote=“Maoman”][quote=“Pluck-A-Duck”]Why don’t you post a notice next to the elevator in your lobby listing EXACTLY what you did to address the problems that your neighbor pointed out…say you are sorry for these problems but you are making an effort to improve the situation…afterwards, list the annoying pranks/harassment that you have been encountering…tell them to please cease because they are being immature and unreasonable…I think if your other neighbors knew the whole story and the whole building knew the situation…then she/he might shy off from her/his actions…

After the post, you will most likely encounter neighbors who want to know more about the situation and just explain it to them…Taiwan apartment buildings love gossip, and if you portray that you were originally a little noisy, but understanding that it might be disturbing those below…and you have made an effort to improve the situation…but the neighbor is still being unreasonable…they will definitely say negative things about the neighbor and the rumour will go back to him/her to the point he/she will sorta back off…

It seems your building manager and the police are no use…if just communicating the problem straightforward for the entire building and your problem neighbor to see is not working, then I would just move…although it is not convenient, there is no point in escalating the situation…you encounter a lot more problems with neighbors because people in Taipei live in such close proximity…tension rises and people get rude and unpleasant…no point in playing this game…[/quote]
Actually, I think that’s very good advice!

BTW, which building do you live in? I’m in B7, and I never have a problem with my neighbors. Are you in one of the A Buildings perchance? For some reason, the smaller flats there seem to attract more pain-in-the-ass type local tenants…[/quote]

This really works - strength in numbers; the more people know about your situation, the less likely your nemesis is likely to continue for fear of being outed. Seen it in action a few times in a few different instances and works way better than confrontation. It’s that whole fear of public disapproval/humiliation thing.[/quote]

We’re in A3 Maoman.

This does sound like a good idea. I suppose we’d put the notice in the lift like everybody else does with the lost dogs and judo classes… in fact, I wonder if we could actually get a stamp from the service centre making it an official notice.

Whichever way we do it we’ll have to keep putting it back up when they take it down I suppose.

There’s one other thing I forgot to mention. Above their front door, they have placed a sign. The sign says 懶人居 (?abode of lazy gits). That’s weird… anyone any ideas?