New bill pushed by Obama admin would revoke passports

Discussion Open Forum
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losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/04/ … taxpayers/

Although the bill is aimed at people who “owe” $50,000 or more in back taxes, it should be noted that if you merely fail to file, the IRS will calculate your taxes for you – using zero-basis-cost for all transactions. This is how, after my tax return was lost in processing one year, I received a bill saying that I owed the IRS about $70,000. (It was easily cleared up by refiling, but if I’d been traveling at the time, and if this bill had already been law, I would have been prevented from leaving at the airport.)

As there have been threads here about people failing to file returns for several years (since they’re not earning money in the U.S., and owe no taxes), it should be noted that if this passes, you could very well end up having immigration/Customs problems when you travel.

Also note that since the U.S. government “guarantees” student loans, it would not be at all surprising to see people who fail to pay their student loans suddenly lose their travel privileges.

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I have no problem whatsoever with the IRS using whatever legal means necessary to find tax cheats - even given that the IRS is run by humans and given further my knowledge that humans make mistakes - the horror, etc. Occasionally they make colossal, huge, big-ass, fuck-up mistakes, yeah.

It happens, check. Got it. :thumbsup:

Look, I’m a law-abiding American who SEARCHES out the cable company so I can pay for online videos, so I know I don’t fit Forumosa’s mainstream poster (who might, say, have access to HBO’s Game of Thrones second episode before me, a paying HBO suck…er subscriber :fume: ). Even so, I don’t really understand how any American can object to our government taking any legal action to claim lawful revenue (note that qualifier, ‘lawful’ - it’s the key to my statement).

Fiscal deficits are the result of too much spending in the face of too little tax revenue, so anything to lawfully maximize tax revenue is a sweet aspect of American life among me and the people who live on my block. I have absolutely no problem with tax cheats in airports - including me - who might be inconvenienced by an Executive cabinet gelded funding-wise by a Congress confused about tax inflows and spending outlays.

Welcome to the America you have chosen to expatriate.

Once again I guess I gotta shrug my shoulders and ask, so the fuck what?

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[quote=“Impaler”]

Also note that since the U.S. government “guarantees” student loans, it would not be at all surprising to see people who fail to pay their student loans suddenly lose their travel privileges.[/quote]

I guess that means more gender studies and other liberal art students might not be able to jump on a plane to teach in Taiwan to throw sticky balls around after not paying their loan obligations. I’m sure Starbucks, Hooters, and Taco Bell will be happy with the additional domestic labour opportunities for people that can no longer go overseas.

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Were you not one of these liberal art students you so despise?

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Arts and Sciences. :laughing: Bit of Ying and bit of Yang! :laughing:

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I was able to file and submit my taxes online this year, but still had to complete form 90-22 (the report of foreign bank accounts to the IRA) and send it by snail mail. Since the address it needed to be sent to is a PO Box, I was unable to DHL it or even send it registered mail. Snail mail was literally the only option when sending mail to a PO Box. My concern is that if it does not arrive, I could face penalties.

Considering the fact that mail has been ‘iffy’ from the UAE for the past couple of years (not one person received my Christmas cards this past year, and last year some mail sent to the States took over two months to arrive!), I’m worried…I can’t imagine being unable to renew my passport or face financial penalties / jail time if my form doesn’t arrive to them on time (or at all)!!!

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[quote=“Indiana”]I was able to file and submit my taxes online this year, but still had to complete form 90-22 (the report of foreign bank accounts to the IRA) and send it by snail mail. Since the address it needed to be sent to is a PO Box, I was unable to DHL it or even send it registered mail. Snail mail was literally the only option when sending mail to a PO Box. My concern is that if it does not arrive, I could face penalties.

Considering the fact that mail has been ‘iffy’ from the UAE for the past couple of years (not one person received my Christmas cards this past year, and last year some mail sent to the States took over two months to arrive!), I’m worried…I can’t imagine being unable to renew my passport or face financial penalties / jail time if my form doesn’t arrive to them on time (or at all)!!![/quote]
Do you think you’ll have to pay 50K in taxes???

How good IS the pay there? :laughing:

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[US passport holders beware Sen. Boxer on the loose

Beat you to it

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You can’t loose travel privileges simply because they revoke a passport as passports aren’t legally required in order to travel. This has been part of common law for quite a few hundred years now. It’s every human’s inalienable right to travel. On the other hand it is also common law that contracts must be upheld when in accordance with laws of the land. However stopping someone from traveling is not legal before sentencing.
The government therefore already know that they aren’t stopping people from travelling by simply revoking passports. They are only making it more difficult to do so conveniently.

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[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Indiana”]I was able to file and submit my taxes online this year, but still had to complete form 90-22 (the report of foreign bank accounts to the IRA) and send it by snail mail. Since the address it needed to be sent to is a PO Box, I was unable to DHL it or even send it registered mail. Snail mail was literally the only option when sending mail to a PO Box. My concern is that if it does not arrive, I could face penalties.

Considering the fact that mail has been ‘iffy’ from the UAE for the past couple of years (not one person received my Christmas cards this past year, and last year some mail sent to the States took over two months to arrive!), I’m worried…I can’t imagine being unable to renew my passport or face financial penalties / jail time if my form doesn’t arrive to them on time (or at all)!!![/quote]
Do you think you’ll have to pay 50K in taxes???

How good IS the pay there? :laughing:[/quote]

Ha ha, good point!!! :smiley: I don’t owe any taxes, but not submitting the 90-22 can result in jail time and / or a fine ($10,000 I believe).

I guess that as long as they keep getting my tax files every year, I’m out of the woods on getting my passport renewal denied! :sunglasses:

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This will probably get stricken from the Highway Bill it was attached to in a last minute move by Sen. Barbara Boxer - D Calif.

This was not submitted on its own. There is also a matter of Constitutionality being raised about this attachment.
It seem to be in direct contravention of a few items in there.

This quote is worth noting:
“…However, there does not appear to be any specific language requiring a taxpayer to be charged with tax evasion or any other crime in order to have their passport revoked or limited — only that a notice of lien or levy has been filed by the IRS…”

Guilty until proven innocent?..not they way its written.

The “bill” it was attached to is 1600 pages long.

Senate Bill 1813 (govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1813/text) was introduced back in November by Senator Barbara Boxer (D-Los Angeles) to “reauthorize Federal-aid highway and highway safety construction programs, and for other purposes” .

See this summary: (4 page pdf)
• SUMMARY OF MOVING AHEAD FOR PROGRESS IN THE 21ST CENTURY (MAP-21)
epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? … 7bc2ca0098

This is a 3 page pdf file called:
Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century
Bipartisan Bill Outline

epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? … 55294798f3

Some would assert that this is merely the current regime moving ahead on Agenda 21.

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A passport is the property of the government. A human/sovereign, according to law is not required to have a passport in order to travel. A government may revoke a passport at any time, and for any reason, unless breaking contract with the person.
A human/sovereign is not necessarily entitled to a passport.

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[quote=“sulavaca”]You can’t loose travel privileges simply because they revoke a passport as passports aren’t legally required in order to travel. This has been part of common law for quite a few hundred years now. It’s every human’s inalienable right to travel. On the other hand it is also common law that contracts must be upheld when in accordance with laws of the land. However stopping someone from traveling is not legal before sentencing.
The government therefore already know that they aren’t stopping people from travelling by simply revoking passports. They are only making it more difficult to do so conveniently.[/quote]

[quote=“sulavaca”]A passport is the property of the government. A human/sovereign, according to law is not required to have a passport in order to travel. A government may revoke a passport at any time, and for any reason, unless breaking contract with the person.
A human/sovereign is not necessarily entitled to a passport.[/quote]

Uh-huh. Try telling this to the US immigrations official at the airport and see whether they let you onto your international flight without your passport. :laughing:

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I’m not going to argue that it will always be easy to travel without a passport, and I believe most officials or government enforcement officers are not educated in the law. They are only educated by the government, and it’s not in the government’s interest to educate their people in law all of the time.
Also another factor is that a flight ticket has a "person"s name on it, which makes it difficult for a human to represent themselves as both a human and a person at the same time. This could be extremely tricky indeed.
There are however other alternatives to flying.

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[quote=“sulavaca”]I’m not going to argue that it will always be easy to travel without a passport, and I believe most officials or government enforcement officers are not educated in the law. They are only educated by the government, and it’s not in the government’s interest to educate their people in law all of the time.
Also another factor is that a flight ticket has a "person"s name on it, which makes it difficult for a human to represent themselves as both a human and a person at the same time. This could be extremely tricky indeed.
There are however other alternatives to flying.[/quote]

So, what exactly is the law and how can a person legally travel between countries without a passport???

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Magna Carta. Article 42 reads:

It shall be lawful to any person, for the future, to go out of our kingdom, and to return, safely and securely, by land or by water, saving his allegiance to us, unless it be in time of war, for some short space, for the common good of the kingdom: excepting prisoners and outlaws, according to the laws of the land, and of the people of the nation at war against us, and Merchants who shall be treated as it is said above.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

There have been arguments that much of the Magna Carta has been repealed over the years. These arguments fail however, as the Magna Carta cannot be repealed by statute laws. No government, especially private entities such as British Gov. U.S. Gov. Canadian Gov. has the power to repeal the Magna Carta as no one individual has the power under the Magna Carta to oppose their beliefs, or laws onto another. Under the Magna Carta all men/humans have equal power.
This would basically mean that nothing short of a revolution and complete destruction of state would be sufficient in changing this ancient law of the land.

For more information on private government companies, you can search D&B:

U.S. Government companies
Taiwan Government
Canadian Government
Various British companies and relevant companies

Basically you can look up many of the world’s governments, and find that they are indeed companies, and thus they can create their own rules. They cannot however hold you to their rules, if you don’t subscribe to them.
This is an important thing to understand. Especially these days when the government is asking you to foot the bills for all of its treasonable wars and government spending. :wink:

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This bill has already passed the senate. Please contact your representatives in congress and instruct them to vote no for senate bill 1813 before it is too late.

If you do not act now soon some ignorant socialist American congressman will introduce a law to take away your drivers license for some frivolous reason. Seriously it will happen if this bill becomes law.

Also instruct your representatives to vote no for any bill that limits freedom for Americans.

Everyone knows the problem with the deficit is spending. You could take away everyone’s passport and driving license and you still would not be able to fix the deficit.

These soviet style tactics of limiting peoples freedom is going to backfire. As was in the other repressive societies the wealthy and middle class people will just leave the USA permanently and start paying their taxes to another country that does not have soviet style repression. As you should know this is already happening. Many wealthy and middle class people are already leaving the USA.

This bill is causing stress and strife in the country and polarizing the American people. This is never a good situation.

Please instruct your representatives to focus on the problem of spending and stop these repressive tactics that accomplish nothing but the polarization of the people.

Seriously soon some ignorant socialist congressman will attempt to take away the drivers licenses of the American people for some frivolous reason that will accomplish nothing and further erode American values and pride.

There is an ever growing erosion of American pride and an ever increasing embarrassment of being American. Bills and laws that limit American freedom and erode American pride are making the USA the laughing stock of the world.

When I see attachments to bills like the one giving the IRS power to suspend or revoke an Americans right to travel it makes me sick. It makes me feel embarrassed to be an American. Please try to stop the politicians from destroying our country.

Also Instruct your representatives to initiate a bill that makes the ability to travel a right and not just a privilege so the politicians will never be able to do this repressive act in the future. I don’t want the government of my country to be able to limit travel and control Americans like other repressive governments. I want to be free and proud of my country the USA.

Also please instruct your congressman to talk to other congressman to stop this bill from becoming law.

The link to contact your representative. writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

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[quote=“Okami”]US passport holders beware Sen. Boxer on the loose

Beat you to it[/quote]

You even made the same student-loan point! No doubt inspired by our recent friend who inquired about the feasibility of skipping out on his. :stuck_out_tongue:

You might not be able to “loose” them, but can you lose them? Magic 8-Ball says “the government will screw you.”

Your Magna Carta quote even specifically mentioned “outlaws” as being prohibited from travel. In the U.S., people on probation are generally barred from leaving the country, and people under indictment or investigation often are prohibited from leaving the country or even the state. All this bill would do is add another category to the list of established travel restrictions.

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This makes no difference as you are not required to have a driving licence in the U.S.

No, just teach Americans about how they are already free and don’t need to obey government statutes.

Its not a communist country, unless you want to subscribe to a communist style government. You can just ignore them you know.

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This makes no difference as you are not required to have a driving licence in the U.S.

No, just teach Americans about how they are already free and don’t need to obey government statutes.

Its not a communist country, unless you want to subscribe to a communist style government. You can just ignore them you know.