[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“zzyzx”]Michelin Taiwan now has PE2 which is a much better than PP2 tire.
It should be only few hundred more per tire compare to PP2, but performance should be well worth it.[/quote]
The Exalto is positioned as the replacement for the now discontinued Preceda. I wouldn’t expect it to be a huge improvement to the Preceda as it’s in the same category (ultra high performance summer tire) and aimed at the same market segment. People who care more about performance than tire life still have the Pilot Sport to consider.[/quote]
True, but based on driver’s with both PS2 and PE2, they said PE2’s dry grip performance is closer to PS2 than PP2.
[quote=“zzyzx”]
True, but based on driver’s with both PS2 and PE2, they said PE2’s dry grip performance is closer to PS2 than PP2.[/quote]
Mmm. Well in that case you can probably expect they will also wear more like the PP2. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
An update on the tire situation in Taiwan. I had bought a a set of PP2s from Costco in January last year. Size was 215/45-17. I had previously run some French made PP2s on the Impreza wagon I had bought from Redwagon. Those PP2s had lasted a long time and performed flawlessly throughout their useful life. The second set I purchased was from Costco and I hadn’t noticed that they had been made in Thailand.
So, just under of year of use on them and 20,000km, they are toast. They wore out in half the time the French made PP2s had gone for, which was around 40,000km. More disappointing was that Costco sold their Thai made PP2s for 500$Nt cheaper per tire than the French made ones…a total of 2,000$NT for a much shorter life. Performance and grip was similar but the Thai PP2s got much harder and noisier in the last few thousand Kms.
Now, after speaking with Michelin’s regional manager, I found out that PP2s are no longer produced in France and only in Thailand for the asian market only. There are a few leftover French made PP2s for sale around the island but in limited sizes only, and until stocks expire.
The tire Michelin was ultimately developing when they were putting the PP2 out was the Michelin PE2 Exalto…The PE2 is sold around the world and produced in several locations. It’s traction rating is down on the PP2 (AA to A) but noise and vibration have been improved. In any case, I got the feeling that Michelin would much prefer to sell their Asian produced tires in the region since they obviously allow for greater profit margins. However, French produced tires can still be obtained with a bit of looking around. Official Michelin dealers understand the differences and will find what you need if you request it.
French made stocks in the size I needed were not that great but I ended up replacing those lousy Thai made PP2s with French made Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s in 225/45-17. Not as cheap as the PP2 or PE2, but they are highly rated the world over…and besides, it would cost me another set of cheap PP2s in a year’s time again…don’t want to go there again.
[quote=“zzyzx”][quote=“redwagon”][quote=“zzyzx”]Michelin Taiwan now has PE2 which is a much better than PP2 tire.
It should be only few hundred more per tire compare to PP2, but performance should be well worth it.[/quote]
The Exalto is positioned as the replacement for the now discontinued Preceda. I wouldn’t expect it to be a huge improvement to the Preceda as it’s in the same category (ultra high performance summer tire) and aimed at the same market segment. People who care more about performance than tire life still have the Pilot Sport to consider.[/quote]
True, but based on driver’s with both PS2 and PE2, they said PE2’s dry grip performance is closer to PS2 than PP2.[/quote]
Now Michelin themselves are saying that the dry grip of the PE2 is actually below that of the even the French-made PP2. It is not a direct replacement. They have repositioned the UHP summer tire now more toward comfort and low-noise, trading some traction to get it. Given that the PE2 is still (at least the current production on sale here, plus the next batch) made in France, I would expect it will get better mileage than the PP2. A very nice tire for the average customer, and prices at the moment are quite reasonable.
I did have Made in Thailand version. They did last about 25000km.
Given treadwear rating of 240 (soft compound) and some lively driving in Nantou area
I would say that was reasonable. (FYI RE001 TR = 220)
Does anyone know if French version had different treadwear rating?
If they indeed do have the same rating as Thai’s and Thai wears faster than Michelin is ripping off their Asian customers.
The tire wear is not what “normal customer” would not be expected to notice.
On the other hand I read somewhere that PP2 was formulated for better wet performance (specifically for Asian weather) so this could explain difference to European version.
BTW I just went through one set of Bridgestone GR80 (Made in Taiwan) in ~20000km.
This is on 5 series BMW with “lively” driving over hilly area so again not a normal conditions.
Now, these were supposed to have TR = 360 - go figure… lead foot
[quote=“pb”]
Does anyone know if French version had different treadwear rating?
If they indeed do have the same rating as Thai’s and Thai wears faster than Michelin is ripping off their Asian customers.
The tire wear is not what “normal customer” would not be expected to notice.[/quote]
The Michelin area manager I spoke with agreed that there are no spec differences on PP2s that are made in Thailand vs the ones that were made in France. The differences he highlighted were between the PP2 and PE2 since popular belief is that the PE2 was to be a direct replacement of the PP2. However,the PP2 is still in production, albeit in Thailand only (for Asian market exclusively).
[quote=“pb”]I did have Made in Thailand version. They did last about 25000km.
Given treadwear rating of 240 (soft compound) and some lively driving in Nantou area
I would say that was reasonable. (FYI RE001 TR = 220)
Does anyone know if French version had different treadwear rating?
If they indeed do have the same rating as Thai’s and Thai wears faster than Michelin is ripping off their Asian customers.
The tire wear is not what “normal customer” would not be expected to notice.
On the other hand I read somewhere that PP2 was formulated for better wet performance (specifically for Asian weather) so this could explain difference to European version.[/quote]
25,000km is far less than the 40,000km + that three owners extracted from one set of French PP2, and none of are light on the gas pedal!
French and Thai versions have the same treadwear rating. Both French and Thai production targeted at the Asia market since these hoops were not available in other markets. If you Google for comments and review you find they all come from Asia and Australia. Are Michelin ripping us off? I think so. They came up with a very good tire, marketed it a fair price. When sales grew they moved production to a cheaper location and reduced both traction and wear at the same time, which can only be the result of cutting costs.
Let’s ask Cap’n Stag if he feels ripped off…
BTW, please note that although the treadwear number is supposed to an industry standard, it isn’t. Comparing treadwear numbers from different manufacturers is pointless. After this incident with Michelin I am not paying much attention to the numbers at all now, even from the same manufacturer. Read the reviews and survey results if you want to predict what mileage you will get.
And the moral of the story is, never buy anything related to motoring that has any connection, no matter how tenuous, to France… Michelin and their crappy tires got laughed out of MotoGP, F1 and WRC, so it’s in keeping that their consumer car tires should be rubbish too, the fact that previously they were accidentally making decent tires must have come to their attention and they had to act quickly to dial up the ‘suck’ by changing suppliers… Frenchists should stick to making inconveniently shaped bread and gooey cheese…
@Plasmatron: :roflmao: @SBL: I never liked Toyos very much, nor Nittos for that matter. Had decent luck with Bridgestones. They pretty much do whatever it says on the box, but not more than that. Never once a ‘wow’ moment.
I’m needing some new tyres for my Nissan. What’s a cheap kind? I don’t drive fast and as I’ve always got the CD player or aircon on, I never really notice the road noise.
