I’m sure this topic game up in the “you’ve been here too long” or the “why aren’t foreigner friendly to other foreigners” topics. But it’s strange.
Back in my day (I’m in my 40’s) I would travel. Meet those odd looking grey haired foregners say in Paris or outside a McDonalds in Tainan. I’d get to meet them. Maybe not invite them into my home, but I’d have coffee, listen to thier stories or whatnot. Like the Gratefuldead song, "look into every eye your find value… " I’d at least learn something or at least be entertained.
Stories of Marshal law, stories of extra services being offered in MTV’s etc. I’ve been here since the end of the "slavery of foreigner spouse era to the almost free and easy market place of no work permits and fair laws (-thank Hartzel et al)
Newcomers just don’t seem to be interested in any incites, stories or anything that we have to offer. YOu watch as they go blindly through thier jobs or being cheated by thier bosses or even missing opportunities to get into the inner circle (drinking with the relatives, eathing stinky Tofu and chicken feet)
Maybe it’s my lazy eye, Einstien like hair (what’s left of it anyway) or non stylish clothing. But heck, I’ve got a house, car family and a source of income… at most people should be interested and say "how did this guy survive here for so long. Incidentally the average life of a foreigner not from South Africa in my village working for a language school is six months. They run away…
There goes an other one… I’d say… Now pass me the betel nut…
Hey TS…just keep reminding yourself…“It ain’t nothing personal. Civility and social etiquette just isn’t a part of their knowledge base.”
In honesty, I’ve found myself letting most expats I encounter, not all mind you, slide by in my peripheral rather than giving a smile or a nod of greeting. Just got tired of making excuses to my son.
I refuse to adopt a ‘wall’ mentality and I will offer assistance if someone appears to have a question, but thats pretty much it.
I think that a lot of new teachers coming to Taiwan plan on staying for a year, more or less. They may view those of you who have settled there as a wee bit off your rockers, and having ‘gone local.’ Maybe that’s why they don’t engage you in conversation much, or ask for pointers or want to hear about your experiences. They just want to work, pay off student loans, and go back home or move somewhere else where they feel they would be more comfortable.
I think that those of us who stayed / are staying in Taiwan for longer periods of time grow to appreciate the insight and friendship of folks like yourself, Taiwan_Student. Most of my foreign friends in Taiwan were long timers / lifers, and they had so many funny and interesting stories about how Taiwan used to be that I couldn’t get enough of it!
But I do remember my first year, meeting a lot of these folks and thinking, “My God, how on earth can they stand the thought of living in this place for the rest of their lives? Are they mad? On drugs? What’s the story?” It’s only once you get used to things that you realize that it is possible, and that many people like yourself have established normal lives in Taiwan like anyone else does around the world. But I think that newbees don’t see things that way. You have to remember that Taiwan isn’t exactly the easiest or nicest country to adapt to. The fact that you have lived there for so many years can seem bizarre to new folks.
I think one difference between long-term residents and the short-term passers-by is that the long-term tend not to be as noticeable. I don’t go out every night. I have a home that’s pretty comfortable and a circle of friends that keep me entertained for the most part.
In the recent 2 years, I have reached out to the younger/newer generation in order to build up support for our homeless animal rescues and education. In that time, I have met even more long-termers and some really interesting short-termers.
I think Taiwan can be an interesting and fun place to live. It’s a friendly and progressive environment. OH, I could tell you stories of the changes that have happened over the last 20 years.
Hmmmm… this “how on earth can they survive here so long” is still in my head, even if I am myself from February 8th, 2004.
Hmmmm… I am pretty comfy since I care for dogs and have thus met some real nice people here. Well, we don’t talk, but that saves vocal cords, so not bad at all.
Still those long timers who really like it sometimes scare me. Like thinking, did they reach some catatonic state of mind and just don’t feel “it” anymore, or do they really enjoy it?
Becoming one scares me, but I am also envious.
Ah never mind… time to leave office, kiss wife and watch TV.
[guess the last sentence shows how it’s possible to be comfy here… ]
I feel “it”. I still feel the life, the energy, the pulse of Taiwan society. Perhaps I don’t love the crowds as much as when I was young. And I have never enjoyed the noise. But Taiwan is alive. I still feel it. Sometimes I get angry and sometimes I want to go “home” (which is either my apt. here or my own country, depending on the strength of the frustration). But I have a home… here in Taichung. And if I want to go somewhere else, I will.
Do you feel “it”? Maybe that’s why you are here still. Maybe that’s why you aren’t.
I’m a newbie. While I don’t actively avoid old timers, I most certainly don’t seek them out.
Going to university in my home country, I met many, many international students. I liked helping them out if they had any questions, or they needed to be “shown the ropes” somehow. But some were cloying and too timid to work things out for themselves. It got a bit tiring after a while, being an unpaid “guide”.
I began to politely refuse to help the more demanding of them and hint that they needed to learn to be independent first. Then, maybe, I’d help them. And they had to give me something in return: laughter, entertaining stories, a pretty smile…whatever.
So when I see an “old timer” I always wonder if he or she gets fed up with newbies approaching them for help. After all, what could they possibly have to gain from my acquaintance? If I do get talking to one I most certainly won’t pester them for help.
[quote=“Thelonlieste”]So when I see an “old timer” I always wonder if he or she gets fed up with newbies approaching them for help. After all, what could they possibly have to gain from my acquaintance? If I do get talking to one I most certainly won’t pester them for help.
It’s just my philosophy.[/quote]
That’s an MO, not a philosophy.
Yes, newbs are generally really irritating and boring. Old timers can be interesting, but not always: drunk old uncles spring to mind. People are just people, come one, come all. People aren’t interesting or not interesting based on how long they’ve lived in a foreign country. I’m not impressed by or interested in travel stories, for the large part. I just like digging by myself.
I do help people if they are obviously flailing, but a bit of nous and self care is good to see too.
Ah, but it comes from trying to live the ethical life. Ayn Rand would call it the morality of rational self interest. Relationships are, ideally, mutually beneficial, hence the non pestering MO…
When I first arrived in Taiwan about 6-7 months ago at the end of May, I met an older man who lived in Taichung on one of my first days in that city. I saw him sitting next to a bookstore so I chatted with him an hour or so. He had lived here in Taiwan for about 13 years, said he spoke the language enough to get by, and he was married to a local.
It was nice hearing his insight and such, but like someone said earlier, I don’t see many older foreigners running about that often. Sometimes I’d see one or another, but they looked like they were in a hurry and had mastered the Taiwanese expression of showing absolutely no expression.
But I think the biggest part for me was my self-isolation. After getting over my cultural shock (which lasted maybe about a week and 2 days), I quickly isolated myself from English speakers so I could focus on learning Chinese. I met foreign friends that preferred for the most part to speak in Chinese (they were foreigners from Asian countries, not Europe) and I met some Taiwanese girls as well. And well, In the social links I formed I guess I didn’t really had a chance to speak with English speaking foreigners in general. I did make some South African friends, but I got tired of watching Britsh/American movies at their homes and always speaking in English. If I were to live here longer than a Summer duration though, I wouldn’t mind using my “Engrish” more often (for both Taiwanese that insist in English usage and foreigners).
Anyhow, I like to come here on Formousa a lot though to hear about the wisdom of you older folk, especially since I’m going back to Taiwan again this Summer. Your inputs and ideas here on this forum have actually helped me a lot in making some decisions in regards to Taiwan.
It must suck for a newbie to have to listen to someone like me. I grew up in a different Asian then today, and Taiwan was really different 17 years ago. Thailand, Phillipines, China, Vietnam all different.
I’m the “done everything, been there three times before it was spoiled” type of dude you hate to listen to.
NorthCoast Surfer mentioned he surfed Taiwan for 9 years-I’ve surfed here for 17.
I screwed more women, taken more drugs, been thrown in more jails, gotten in more accidents and bar fights and close calls and near-marriages then all you muthas. Boring.
And the newbies are usually as boring to me as I am to them.
Now put your shirt back on and get out of my bar stool.
[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”]
I screwed more women, taken more drugs, been thrown in more jails, gotten in more accidents and bar fights and close calls and near-marriages then all you muthas.[/quote]
I’m a total freak anyway, and all my gurls in Taiwan certainly didn’t need my tall tales nor me theirs. I sent 10 years in Asia, pretty much straight from college until last year. Taipei’s not a difficult or complex place to live, and I certainly ain’t nursemaiding some kid who doesn’t like the brand of tampons in Watsons or can’t live without unsweetened bread. Yawn, zzz, grow a pair.
BUT, I have been in situs when I’[ve ended up being the sole ‘support’ for women younger than me who have ended up severely unhappy because they haven’t found a way to deal with their stress and culture shock. I never turn my back on those kids because it’s our responsibility to help those who really need it. I even watched this girl’s entire ‘Friends’ boxset with her because she needed to crawl into a familiar shell!
Different attitudes to travel, I guess. My dad and lots of family did the ‘longterm in Asia’ thing. It was never cool or interesting to me, it was just that lame-o thing that the guys did once they got divorced.
Travel stories: it’s strange to be in the UK where everyone asks ‘What was it like in Taiwan?’ Clue, they just can’t think of anything else to say: they don’t care at all. And there’s no answer to the question. Best to change the subject and ask them about the garden or something.
[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”] Taiwan was really different 17 years ago. Thailand, Phillipines, China, Vietnam all different.
I’m the “done everything, been there three times before it was spoiled” type of dude you hate to listen to.
I screwed more women, taken more drugs, been thrown in more jails, gotten in more accidents and bar fights and close calls and near-marriages then all you muthas. Boring.[/quote]
[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”]It must suck for a newbie to have to listen to someone like me. I grew up in a different Asian then today, and Taiwan was really different 17 years ago. Thailand, Phillipines, China, Vietnam all different.
I’m the “done everything, been there three times before it was spoiled” type of dude you hate to listen to.
NorthCoast Surfer mentioned he surfed Taiwan for 9 years-I’ve surfed here for 17.
I screwed more women, taken more drugs, been thrown in more jails, gotten in more accidents and bar fights and close calls and near-marriages then all you muthas. Boring.
And the newbies are usually as boring to me as I am to them.
Now put your shirt back on and get out of my bar stool.[/quote]
To be fair, you really should mention that this was all before your gender reassignment procedure…
Also, that you could spell when you first came here.
ETA: FWIW, it pretty much sucks for us to listen to someone like you too, not just the FNGs…
I’ve seen some things since I came to Taiwan over a decade ago…
I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That’s my dream. That’s my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight… razor… and surviving…
I have been here on and off since 1995, however I don’t really get all that newbie stuff.
i have a life and a business here, and well, I just get on with that. It’s that simple. I have been people who have not been ehre long which I liked, and people who have spent decades here who are totally fuckwits.
[quote=“Mr He”]
I have a life and a business here, and well, I just get on with that. It’s that simple. I have been people who have not been ehre long which I liked, and people who have spent decades here who are totally fuckwits.[/quote]
I told you many times if you don’t stop that shape-shifting shit you are going to go blind.
[quote=“MJB”][quote=“Mr He”]
I have a life and a business here, and well, I just get on with that. It’s that simple. I have been people who have not been ehre long which I liked, and people who have spent decades here who are totally fuckwits.[/quote]
I told you many times if you don’t stop that shape-shifting shit you are going to go blind.[/quote]
All you fuckers up on Freak Mountain need to spend more time in the Hyperbaric Chamber…that includes Toast Boy…
That’s when you really know you’ve been too long when you start adopting the local English vernacular.
I grew up in a few Asians myself over the years, but I later wilted collapsed on the bed and tried to fathom how cicadas could ever locate one another amongst all that racket. Asians today though don’t necessarily believe me or care when I offer them economic asylum in exchange for their affections. Things are just so different.
