I recently discovered that I could do an international money transfer to Taiwan (where I’ll be soon) by using Internet banking. I thought: “This is handy. I can send money around the world from the comfort of my desk.”
The Commonwealth Bank (Australia) charged me (Australian) $22 (NT$615) to send $750 (NT$21,000). (The $22 transfer fee was paid separately, not taken out of the $750.) A little steep, but not unexpected.
Then, when my friend received it in her account at the Taiwan end, only AU$681.15 had come through. In other words, on top of my $615 fee at this end, the Taiwan banks (she was told) had charged me NT$1,950!
My friend made some enquiries, and was told that the transfer had passed through two different banks (one of which was Citibank), and each had taken its chunk of flesh.
This simply doesn’t sound right. Or is it? Is this what usually happens? If so, it’s fing out-fing-rageous.
Has anyone had similar experiences with banks practising this level of extortion?
Well, I’ll certainly be contacting the consumer affairs bureau, or whatever it’s called in Taiwan, when I get over there next month.
[quote=“ecce wombat”]I recently discovered that I could do an international money transfer to Taiwan (where I’ll be soon) by using Internet banking. I thought: “This is handy. I can send money around the world from the comfort of my desk.”
The Commonwealth Bank (Australia) charged me (Australian) $22 (NT$615) to send $750 (NT$21,000). (The $22 transfer fee was paid separately, not taken out of the $750.) A little steep, but not unexpected.
Then, when my friend received it in her account at the Taiwan end, only AU$681.15 had come through. In other words, on top of my $615 fee at this end, the Taiwan banks (she was told) had charged me NT$1,950!
My friend made some enquiries, and was told that the transfer had passed through two different banks (one of which was Citibank), and each had taken its chunk of flesh.
This simply doesn’t sound right. Or is it? Is this what usually happens? If so, it’s fing out-fing-rageous.
Has anyone had similar experiences with banks practising this level of extortion?[/quote]
It isn’t “right” but that’s the way it is. Here is my experience with Citibank N.A. and “correspondent” or intermediate banks. That form I mentioned there has of course not changed.
Talk to your bank first - they should have made you aware of those charges. If not the fault lies with them, not the intermediate banks (even I find those charges outrageous, too).
And just so you are prepared - many banks in Taiwan suck and are a pain in the backside to deal with.
Had that happen to me too wiring money to another country to buy something.
The best description I can give of Taiwanese banks is:
Imagine they are all car companies, but they all are required to only sell Yugo’s and the only difference is the name and color attached to the Yugo you buy.
That pretty much sums up my feelings about them. It might change or get worse depending on if the Taishin branch in Changua gives me a visa debit card next week when I go to open an account. It would be great after the many, “No! You are a foreigner!”
I worked in banking for years and sent tons of these transfers. The sending bank, where the account is held, NEVER knows how much will be charged by the corresponding (intermediary) banks. Yes, the corresponding banks always charge something, but they NEVER notify the originating banks. The sending bank sends the original amount only, and has nothing to do with any charges deducted afterward.
In the case of the OP’s total of $68.85 fees by the corresponding banks, yes that fee does sound high. Consider it an educational expense. Personally, I used international wires only when the amount I was sending was very high–like when I moved out of Taiwan.
Most people who are abroad are much better off making cash withdrawals from an ATM, since the fees are much less than international wire transfers.
You are WRONG. Citibank was able to tell me the exact charges after my complaint, and so was HSBC when I enquired about opening a new account and specifically asked about charges related to international transfers. In both cases it was a fixed percentage, with HSCB being slightly cheaper (around 0.35% or so if I remember correctly, possibly with a minimum fee if the transfer amount was very low but I am not sure about that).
And it was no coincidence that the corresponding bank of Citibank NA in Taiwan is Citibank New York, they told me they always route foreign currencies through their HQs of the respective country (i.e. USD via the US/New York, GBP via UK/London etc.).
You are WRONG.[/quote]
Why are you shouting at me?
I hope you don’t think that I was shouting at you by emphasizing the word “never” in my previous post. If it is, I’m sorry; never would have been a better choice. I don’t post often, but I never post a rude comment. I post to help people and to add to discourse.
Citibank was able to tell me the exact charges after my complaint…[/quote]
I didn’t mean to imply that the sending bank couldn’t find out how much the intermediary bank charges. I said that the sending bank is never notified by the correspondent (correction for my previous error in banking terminology) bank the amount of its fee. This is true in my experience of sending hundreds of these wires: I was never notified.
In your case of a huge fee, a very valid one by the way (a US$85 fee for a US$600 wire transfer is more than a 14% fee!), the sending bank did find out how much the correspondent bank charged, but only because of your (rightful) complaint. But it was up to the sending bank to ask; the correspondent did not send out a notification to it regarding the amount of the fee.
By the length of my reply, please don’t think that I’m a big defender of the Banking Machine. They’ve been overcharging customers since Day 1, racking up record profits from the mid-90s and then squandering them by risky investments in the mid-00s. :fume: They make so many people angry because of nickle-and-diming and the variety of fees for uncommon services (for wire transfers, etc).
And Citibank’s policy of the 2 charges for wire transfers? Don’t even get me started! :fume:
That pretty much sums up my feelings about them. It might change or get worse depending on if the Taishin branch in Changua gives me a visa debit card next week when I go to open an account. It would be great after the many, “No! You are a foreigner!”[/quote]
You shouldn’t have any problems getting one. As long as you’ve had an ARC for more than 1 year, they’re happy to give them out.
I don’t think Rascal is shouting; he’s re-iterating something that has been asked and answered here so many times before. You probably could have saved yourself some hassle and money with a search and a read up on past threads.
I wasn’t shouting, I was just playing on your double “NEVER”. Sorry if it came across the wrong way.
No worries.
But if there is a fixed percentage then they do know and you don’t need to be notified each time (unless it changes).
I transferred a bit more than that, not just USD600. The issue was not the amount of the fee but that a fee was charged. As mentioned they then told me it’s a fixed percentage and HSCB was able to tell me the fee before even opening an account. Thus I take it as an indiciation that they do know, they just don’t tell you unless you ask.
[quote]By the length of my reply, please don’t think that I’m a big defender of the Banking Machine. They’ve been overcharging customers since Day 1, racking up record profits from the mid-90s and then squandering them by risky investments in the mid-00s. :fume: They make so many people angry because of nickle-and-diming and the variety of fees for uncommon services (for wire transfers, etc).
And Citibank’s policy of the 2 charges for wire transfers? Don’t even get me started! :fume:[/quote]
Tell me about it.
[quote=“citizen k”]
I don’t think Rascal is shouting; he’s re-iterating something that has been asked and answered here so many times before. You probably could have saved yourself some hassle and money with a search and a read up on past threads. [/quote]
I NEVER SHOUT AT PEOPLE. NEVEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
My friend’s bank (Hua Nan) said that they only deducted NT$200 (about AU$7) - reasonable - but the transfer went (for whatever reason) through Citibank in Dublin. I can only conclude that Citibank is the villain in this tale, too, and pocketed the missing AU$62 (NT$1,475).
I’m now engaged in a game of telephone ping-pong (“You call them.” “No, it’s not our fault. You call them!”). I doubt that I’ll get a refund, but I at least want Citibank to come out from behind the small print and admit exactly how much they [strike]extorted[/strike] charged for their services. :fume:
And it will change, since banks rarely lower fees! So don’t forget to verify HSBC’s fee before every wire, to avoid more banking unpleasantness
[quote=“ecce wombat”]My friend’s bank (Hua Nan) said that they only deducted NT$200 (about AU$7) - reasonable - but the transfer went (for whatever reason) through Citibank in Dublin. I can only conclude that Citibank is the villain in this tale, too, and pocketed the missing AU$62 (NT$1,475).
I’m now engaged in a game of telephone ping-pong (“You call them.” “No, it’s not our fault. You call them!”). I doubt that I’ll get a refund, but I at least want Citibank to come out from behind the small print and admit exactly how much they [strike]extorted[/strike] charged for their services. :fume:[/quote]
Your conclusion is right: Citibank Dublin took the AU$62. The surprise of not knowing the fee beforehand sucks, but the “game of telephone ping-pong” will only increase your blood pressure, not your account balance.
Another method of sending money that I’ve used in the past may work for you. I used to get (for a small fee) an international draft, and then mail it myself. There are no hidden fees [url=Tip: Wiring money back to America - #32 by davidintaipei Ask your bank.
I wired money to my broker in the states on more than one occasion from a Taiwanese bank, and with the charges, commissions, and exchange rates, I never paid anything close to what you paid for your wire. I haven’t done it in a while so I am not familiar with the current cost, but it might help if the local bank has a branch in the states.
Realistically, the international banks in Taiwan are GENERALLY WORSE for many basic services than the local banks… And the charges are quite high for basic services that should be otherwise free. I have been a user of both HSBC and Citibank, and while HSBC was generally useful for banking in the UK, the services from the T*** branch bordered on the incompetent at times, including getting my statement address wrong despite having been given correctly and corrected numerous times. They kept switching off my services because I didn’t use them ‘frequently’… couldn’t set up basic transfers properly, didn’t want to sell me traveler’s checks, wouldn’t give me a mortgage, wanted to block my deposit to give me a credit card (despite having a decent job/salary), rewarded me with lousy interest rates on cds (not to mention base deposits), … each time I went to the branch, there was always a new customer manager. What does that tell you about how good a place it is to work?
The thing that really ticked me off though was they always did things “for the benefit of their customer.” Geez. But that’s another thread. I got so pissed off, I closed my account with HSBC. Citibank has been ‘better’, except for the fact they nearly went bankrupt. So now I keep most of our money in local banks. Better branch networks, better basic services, and they don’t pretend to be more than they really are. So if you are going to use the so-called ‘international banks’, make sure they know that you are the BOSS of your money, and don’t take crap for crap service. I think the banks have pretty much ruined their reputations as stewards of our savings.
I think it’s better if you can transfer to a brokerage, like Ken says. Most decent brokerages will tell you in their fee structure that they do not charge for incoming wire transfers, whether domestic or international. I also have found the fees to be lower if wiring to a brokerage versus a regular bank account back home. In the US you can always link your brokerage account to another bank account to do free domestic ACH transfers. That way, after you wire your money to your brokerage account, you still have the option of sending it to your bank account. Of course, that takes time to do. But if you have the time, it’s cheaper.
[quote=“ecce wombat”]I recently discovered that I could do an international money transfer to Taiwan (where I’ll be soon) by using Internet banking. I thought: “This is handy. I can send money around the world from the comfort of my desk.”
The Commonwealth Bank (Australia) charged me (Australian) $22 (NT$615) to send $750 (NT$21,000). (The $22 transfer fee was paid separately, not taken out of the $750.) A little steep, but not unexpected.
Then, when my friend received it in her account at the Taiwan end, only AU$681.15 had come through. In other words, on top of my $615 fee at this end, the Taiwan banks (she was told) had charged me NT$1,950!
My friend made some enquiries, and was told that the transfer had passed through two different banks (one of which was Citibank), and each had taken its chunk of flesh.
This simply doesn’t sound right. Or is it? Is this what usually happens? If so, it’s fing out-fing-rageous.
Has anyone had similar experiences with banks practising this level of extortion?
Well, I’ll certainly be contacting the consumer affairs bureau, or whatever it’s called in Taiwan, when I get over there next month.[/quote]
yes definitely, If the money transferred through two banks they will cut the taxes for the amount according to bank rules. That’s way your friend get less amount.
