Opinions on Arafat

Arafat is dying. There was another thread here, having a more or less comical way (that depends on your presonal view) to approach his intermediate condition between life and death.

Well, it has been floundered and was leading to an exchange of opinions with personal insults. So kinda smelled like flounder.

I think the subject is very difficult, as we have in Palestine a biblic confilct which may be impossible to solve. Arafat, being the Palestinian leader is in my point of view a tragical figure, involved in all the mutual violence between Palestinians and Israel people and never able to do the right decisions at the right time. Entering the peace process, going it until 90% and then jumping out of it.

Will his death bring the chance of peace for Palestine and Israel?

Other points worth discussioning seem to be the amounts of money which used to be flowing on his private bank accounts (according to spiegel.de for instance). Money which now could go to his widow, presently at his bedside in Paris.

Arafat was all about terrorism, war, murder, and death. Peace was never an option under his leadership. Whether it will get better after the scumbag’s death is anybody’s guess. I just wish he could suffer more.

Arafat: buffoonish terrorist. Soon to be fresh meat for the fires of hell.

Nice, thoughtful post, ehrlich bob.

Here are two thoughts:

(1) The embezzlement.

Clearly stealing vast sums that are intended to help your desperately poor people, and using such sums to live in obscene luxury is wrong. But it is also nothing surprising. Corrupt dictators are par for the course in much of the world. So while we are right to condemn the Mugabe’s of the world (and may be forgiven for treating as perverse jokes the UN votes cast by representatives of such dictators) – Arafat does not seem unique to me in this regard.

(2) When will we see peace.

To see the difficulty, imagine that you are a dictator in the middle east.

Your people have little freedom in what they can read, what they can say, or what they can believe. Women have even less freedom, and are indeed sometimes killed by their own families for the “offense” of bing the victim of a rape. Girls are allowed locked in a school to burn rather than allow them to escape improperly attired. Other than those lucky enough to live off of oil money, the people are desperately poor. Corruption sucks the life out of the economy. There is no great hope future advancement, as students are generally allowed to learn only religious texts and hatred for those of other religions.

You are very aware (more aware than anyone in the west, one would imagine) of the amount of anger and hatred that has built up in your people. After living in such conditions for years, and seeing whatever resources the nation does have go to you, your family, and other corrupt government oficials, your people overflow with dispair and bitterness.

As the dictator, does this scare you? Of course it does. There is a limit to how many people you can kill or torture into submission. So to keep your people from turning their anger against you, you desperately require a scapegoat. You need someone for your people to blame for their misery, other than you and your corrupt government that keep them poor.

Fortunately for you, there is Israel. You tell your people that “THEY are the reason you are poor.” “THEY are the reason you suffer.” “THEY are the cause of violence and evil in the world.” And you back it up in every word that people are allowed to read, every broadcast they are allowed to see on TV, and every lesson they are taught in school. And it works. You are able to continue to live a life of luxury, while your people suffer.

Now tell me, how eager are you to give up your power to make peace with Israel? How willing are you to give up the single most important tool you have? Indeed is there anything that you would NOT do, to ensure that your people continue to view Israel as their “real” enemy rather than turning their anger on you?

How long will the conflict with Israel last? Ask yourself how long dictators in the middle east want to stay in power. How long will they channel the (very legitimate) anger of their people away from their own regimes. How soon will the dictators say “Okay, okay… mea culpa. Actually the reason you are poor is that my family and I have been emezzling the wealth of the nation for years, so that we can live in palaces and pad our Swiss accounts. And the reason you have no job and no prospects is that we have deliberately kept you from learning anything beyond the Quran in school.”

When that day comes, I have hope that there will be peace.

I’m glad Arafat’s finally getting out of the way. Maybe now there can be some kind of progress. If the Palestinian Authority can get themselves going in a democratic, transparent, and fair way, and make an active effort to discourage terrorism (which was never going to happen as long as Arafat was about), it’ll be much harder for Israel to justify military action against them, and may force the situation into a more diplomatic, peaceful negotiation, if not solution.

Speaking of solutions, once Arafat’s finally dead, we’re halfway to the optimal solution for the current round of problems between Israel and Palestine: beating Ariel Sharon to death with the corpse of Arafat.

My sympathies lean more toward the Palestinians, but I have to say that Arafat strikes me as a useless individual. He insisted on controlling everything, which has stunted democracy, kept more talented people in the shadows, encouraged people who disapprove of him to join armed rival parties (Hamas), dragged down Palestine’s PR, and shot to hell any chance of a normal budgetary process. (Apparently Arafat personally controls much of Palestine’s money, through his private accounts.)

What the Palestinians need most is a decent economy, not fractionally greater amounts of worthless land. They need investment and technology, and where are these going to come from if not Israel? They need their people to be able to travel to Israel for work, which is going to become increasingly difficult in the future. (Israel would rather hire Assamese converts to Judaism.) Tourism is another major potential money-maker, which Arafat has temporarily shot to hell.

Arafat has just not been building a plausible civil society for Palestine. He has not succeeded in reaching out to any element of Israeli society. Imagine what a nonviolent campaign might have accomplished. They would have respected that, I think.

[quote=“bob_honest”]Arafat is dying. There was another thread here, having a more or less comical way (that depends on your presonal view) to approach his intermediate condition between life and death.

Well, it has been floundered and was leading to an exchange of opinions with personal insults. So kinda smelled like flounder.[/quote]
Hi Folks…that was me…look for the “Weekend ay Yassers’” thread. Funny picture and a good take off on the “Dead Parrott” Monty Python routine. Also look at the threats of violence made by MT…quite laughable.

[quote=“bob_honest”]I think the subject is very difficult, as we have in Palestine a biblic confilct which may be impossible to solve. Arafat, being the Palestinian leader is in my point of view a tragical figure, involved in all the mutual violence between Palestinians and Israel people and never able to do the right decisions at the right time. Entering the peace process, going it until 90% and then jumping out of it.

Will his death bring the chance of peace for Palestine and Israel? [/quote]
This might happen. The ‘Palestinian’ people are damned tired of living in a state of siege. A condition which has been foisted on them by Arafat and his cult of death. It is finally being shown to them that they were being played as pawns by the PLO and its off shoot groups.

The ‘Palestinian’ people are going to look long and hard at what is being uncovered. Remeber, these people have been denied access to news and events that we take for granted. Not by the evil Israelis, but by their own so-called leadership.
They deserve peace. They deserve to live with a chance to prosper. They deserve something better than what Arafat has allowed them to have.

“Peace will happen only when the mothers of Palestine love their children more than they hate the Israelis.”…Golda Meir.

Great quote of Golda Meir!

Well, it is a funny and also strange situation, as most of the world is waiting for Arafat to do his last breath so things can move on. Okay, so if MT is applying for a truck driving license now, you must be carefull :smiley:

It is now clear to everyone with common sense, part of Arafat’s money was flowing into terrorists pockets. EU paid Arafat (with good intensions), Arafat paid people who blowed up school busses in Israel.

“Thanks” EU for using my tax payments for blowing up kids Israel. :loco: Even if I am normaly a big fan of the European-Union idea, let me agree with Dangermouse (EU=evil idea) … only for today. :fume:

link please (not to the Heritage Foundation or Washington Times, but to a legitimate source)

link please

Spiegel.de is a German source for that.

Which translates to (bobhonest quick-translation):

[quote]
“Israel had been bringing out payment-receipts after their raid at Arafat, which were authentic according to [German] Federal Intelligence (Bundesnachrichtendienst) and which have been found to be authentic by the EU fraud-fighting centreal “Olaf”. According to that, money went partially to assassins, who were blowing themselves up in Israel, to take as many Israelis as possible with them into death.” [/quote]
(spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0 … 27,00.html).

Spiegel is a political magazine, regarded to be left of the middle and also critizing Israel a lot. They criticize everyone, that is why I like them. Even if their occasional sense of humor and moralizing style is often regarded to be unsuitable. But not in this text.

And come-on, I noticed countless times (in German media) mentioning some terror act in Israel has been traced back to Arafats movement.

And if we traced that money that Arafat used to buy and support terrorist efforts, we may find it going straight to the EU! Yes, the EU continues to send a lot of funding to Arafat so this supposed interest in Peace and Against War is actually funding not only violence and war but the worst kind: terrorism.

Here a link. It’s a Jewish link. It’s called, “What Exactly Does Israel Have on Yasser Arafat?”

Al Jazeera has a good tribute page.
[url=http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_id=5535]1972 -

A good article providing some background on Mrs. Arafat. Suha is no dummy. And it appears she has a stronger hand than might be imagined. But…it is French law…so it might be somewhat…flexible.

The Woman Behind the Chairman, By Barry Rubin,
Global Research in International Affairs | November 10, 2004

"The bizarre story of Suha Arafat, wife of comatose Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat, is one more example of how a movement which has combined bloody terrorism with brilliant public relations for so many years proves itself impossible to deal with.

Suddenly, Suha literally holds in her hands the future of the Arab-Israeli conflict and hence of the Middle East and international politics more generally. For only she can pull the plug in the Paris hospital which would end her husband’s life and let the Palestinians choose a new leadership. But she’s not pulling yet."(excert from article)

More good stuff on the scene in Yassers bedroom…this one is full of good links with background.

Arafat’s Bedroom Farce
By Daniel Pipes, FrontPageMagazine.com | November 10, 2004

(excerts from article
"The mise-en-sc

Arafat’s death may not be the the first step towards peace that many here seem to believe.

The question of Arafat’s successor is still up in the air, and I would not be surprised if an internal conflict would arise between the PLO and Hamas.

On the other side of the strip, with the demise of Arafat, Ariel Sharon has now lost his arch nemesis and may have trouble persuading foreign leaders and more moderate members of the Israeli government that his withdrawal plans must still proceed. With Arafat’s death it may be argued that perhaps there is another chance for peace between the Israel and Palestine without bailing a wall and up rooting Jewish settlers

Rauhi Fattu (left) has been named in some media as a temporary successor still elections will be held (within 60 days):

Yes, the EU is the primary funding source for the PLO and much of that money ends up in corrupt hands OR even worse is used to target innocent civilians. How many dead bodies is the EU indirectly responsible for? I would wonder if it would actually be pretty darned near the 24,000 civilians and insurgents that have been killed in Iraq. A couple thousand during the Intifada, and over the years, how many others? I think this is a perfect example of the bumbling feel-good ineptitude of the EU and its hapless efforts to have a meaningful role in world affairs. Quite frankly, the whole issue is not only pathetic but downright immoral. Given that this money has also been put to good use to build up the gangsters that surround Arafat and given that with the money and weapons that they are able to buy they are pretty much able to eliminate any independent rational voices for coexistence with Israel, then we have to see really the EU as the major obstacle to achieving peace in Palestine. Yet, another great job EU! Congratulations! You have not caused this much trouble since Germany forced the EU to recognize (against the wishes of the UN and the rest of the world) the independence of Croatia and Bosnia thus sparking the whole Balkan conflict. Hurray! Another feather for your cap!

It looks like “Yasser Arafat” has joined that big matyrs brigade in the sky, or wherever they go. I bet he’s got some ‘splainin’ to do about those 70 virgins he was promising…lol.

Palestinian Leader Yasser Arafat Dies, Wednesday, November 10, 2004

Hopefully Saddam meets him in the near future

A better singer than his twin brother, Ringo.