Moderators, rules, deleted, floundered posts have all been heavily discussed. So I don’t really want to burden anyone with bringing that up again. I’m more concerned with what you think about using words like stupid, idiot, bitch, moron, cow, ass hole, etc, when you cross swords. Also for the hell of knowing better who reads my posts, what about you moderators;How do you base your decisions when deleting, editing, floundering and such. When is it clear to you that someone crossed the line. Not an easy task obviously (thank you btw)and maybe a redundant subject for many. I’m new here, reading opinions about this would help me get around this place I’m sure.
Thank you in advance.
Exactly. So do a search. It has been discussed heavily and I for one have no intention of starting it all up yet again.
hey Leo, you might want to check the Feedback threads first and see if they don’t already answer your questions (I think they have). There are also some discussion internally as well so it’s a wearisome topic. This subject has been really flogged.
[quote=“Yellow Cartman”]hey Leo, you might want to check the Feedback threads first and see if they don’t already answer your questions (I think they have). There are also some discussion internally as well so it’s a wearisome topic. This subject has been really flogged.[/quote]Thanks YC. Sandman, your feedback is also appreciated and thanks for the link Tetsuo.
Maybe that’s what’s arsh about being a newbee. Really hard not to sound redundant. But every thread I read about any of this is nothing but fighting and agressivity except for some nice posters. I thought starting it with an incline towards good spirited posts rather than insults would be better. Obviously, I’ve got some thinking to do yet about this forum. Thanks everyone again.
I think it does take some time to get used to the feel of a place. Some people pick up fast, some take longer. I think you’re really doing fine so no need to be self-conscious about it.
I would characterize your description of Forumosa’s “insults” to be its version of free spirited discussion. That said though, I think there are times when it goes too far and ends up being just plain mean and against what I would consider to be the “Forumosa spirit” hinted at through the Rules, main page, etc.
I think you should think less about this subject and just contribute (by posting 
)
Leo:
I personally agree with you. I think we allow way too much ‘free speech’ that gets in the way of our mission of pooling our knowledge to help one another. But once you get more familiar with the site, you’ll figure out who to ignore.
And before anyone gets on my case, let me add that the reason I put ‘free speech’ in quotes is that I think this issue is misconstrued as being a free speech issue.
Anyone who doesn’t like our rules is free to start their own forum for like-minded people. They can talk about how much they hate gay people, how fat western women are, or how stupid or dishonest [Taiwanese, French, American, Canadian] people are to their heart’s content.
Our site would be even better and would attract more new people if we clamped down on this crap.
When I first discovered the internet I was profoundly influenced by a radio rogram that I downloaded from the BBC. It was written and presented by Douglas Adams, author of The HitchHiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
He was British, and at that time the internet was almost entirely populated by Americans. Most of my countrymen, myself included, bitched about this. Cultural hegmony and all that. Adams took a more proactive approach: the internet is what the users make it, so if you don’t like there being too many americans here then just go and join in so that there is a slightly smaller percentage of them. The idea is that if all kinds of people join in then the internet becomes representative of everyone rather than just one group of people.
Exactly the same argument holds true in this part of cyberspace. If you don’t like the general tone of conversation here then the answer is not to just go away. The answer is to join in and make a difference, and to invite all your nice friends to do likewise. In time this will change the character of the boards.
The alternative is to ban lots of people. Although I agree with your sentiment, mostly, I disagree with the banning system. It’s a slippery slope.
If you can make it to Taipei for a happy hour then you can always meet people in person and shake hands too. That helps.
Loretta -
I believe that once upon a time in the misty past of my internet experience I also enjoyed that Adams program.
And for the life of me I cannot remeber the name of it.
Although, strangely, I sometimes have parts of it flash thru what currently constitutes my thought box.
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by crap but I very much doubt you would attract more people. People can post stuff you think is ‘crap’ one minute and something useful the next. If you want to see the back of everyone who posts crap, then you will be seeing the back of everyone.
If you want to restrict this forum to ‘pooling our knowledge to help one another’ then maybe you should get rid of the ‘Open’ and ‘IP’ forums; but these are the most popular. If you don’t like a discussion you don’t have to read it; it’s been a long time since I read anything in IP.
[quote=“Yellow Cartman”]
I think it does take some time to get used to the feel of a place. Some people pick up fast, some take longer. I think you’re really doing fine so no need to be self-conscious about it.[/quote] Thanks YC but not so much self-conscious, more opinionated and confused at once. I have not been complimented with such words as ass hole, stupid, idiot(not yet). This is not about me although it may seem like it. I’m concerned with the posters who seem to prefer insulting other posters rather than arguing their opinions. Fortunetly, they are few and far appart but nevertheless something I wanted to find out more about. I did search like Sandman suggested before I posted this thread but every thread I found was about specific complaints regarding rules, deleted and floundered posts and threads. What I wanted here is plain opinions as to how decisions are made aside from discussing specific posts or threads and secondly I was hoping for the same from posters as to know how they feel about using insults when in disagreement. Sorry about the redundancy but it’s not redundant to me and perhaps other newer posters feel the same way. This said, if anyone feels like contributing, the few of us to whom this is not redundant will appreciate it I’m sure. After all, this is a growing community and some topics are bound to resurface for the sakes of newer posters and no one is forced to contribute. Sandman’s post highlights some challenges and deceptions new comers have to live with. You post inversly makes me want to stick around and contribute. After all, If I’m reading archived discussions, I’m not contributing unless I write about it. No? On the other hand, posting “I don’t want to post in your thread” is not a contribution aside from telling me my contribution is not welcome and telling other posters that my thread is unappropriate, thus merely undermining it. Perhaps Sandman’s screen has a big annoying red dot flashing everytime he doesn’t contribute in a new thread…
(Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with that. Sarcasm aside,if it’s your opinion and you can avoid plain insults, I’ll take it positively even If I wish you contributed in a different manner for the sake that I’m new here. You were a newbee too once Sandman)
Well, in this case I don’t like it. The rules are there for a reason and They make good sense if you ask me. A solid opinion can be flaming on it’s own without the need to post insults and although flaming is against the rules, I have no issues with anyone posting their opinions regadless how passionnate and flaming they may be. If someone posts insults however, I think their opinion must be weak if it needs insults to back it up somehow. It comes down to this for me. I disagree with people all the time but if I choose to go around insulting them, it doesn’t say much about me I think. People are different and insults are better left aside in any communities. This forum is no different.
[quote=“Yello Cartman”]
I think you should think less about this subject and just contribute (by posting )[/quote]
This is my contribution YC. It may be seen as redundant, self conscious or irrelevant but that’s what I wanted to contribute. You won’t catch me insulting anyone on this forum(not intentionnaly anyways) and I wish more posters would do the same. This is my 2 cents worth.
Insults are redundant to me, people fight everyday about everything. I like to see this forum as a place where I can express myself freely without being suppressed for it. And if I do so whithout insulting anyone or suppressing someone else myself, I hope you can see that as simply being my contribution. That’s how I read your posts and that’s why I more often than not appreciate your contribution.
Thanks again.
Well put. That’s why I started this thread.
Thank you all for your opinions.
Opinions wanted but I’ll argue you until tomorrow… 
I like Forumosa, but like anything, it’s not perfect and if it were, maybe then we would not really appreciate the good posts…
I’ll agree with Yeti, everyone is bound to post something a bit off here and there. Except me of course. 
The other issue is ‘What is an insult?’
For instance, I feel free to call anyone an idiot if they’re posting things that seem stupid. It’s not simply an insult, it’s an observation of fact in some cases - the facts as I see them anyway.
There are people here who say things that are idiotic, why pretend otherwise? Some people have told me that I’m an idiot for doing some of the things I’ve done in the past. I could just get upset with them for insulting me, but actually they sometimes have a point. I do do idiotic things sometimes.
Calling me a dumb cow would be a bit more of a questionable comment, at least where I come from. But people from different places have different standards of what’s polite and what isn’t.
The word ‘bastard’ is almost a term of endearment coming from Almas John. To others it’s a deadly insult. Similarly, Tetsuo doesn’t seem to mind being called a wanker.
Other people get upset even at a robust rebuttal. Disagreeing with someone creates a situation where only one of you can be right. Someone has to be wrong! 
Oh my God, I’ve arrived at an incorrect conclusion! I’ve done something stupid. You must think I’m an idiot!! How dare you insult me? I’m not an idiot. I can’t possibly have made a mistake, therefore you must be wrong, you Jackass. How dare you be so unreasonable to me.
So what’s the solution? Create ever more rules and standards of behaviour where everyone is afraid to speak their minds for fear of offending someone? Or just to accept that we have some rough and ready characters here who still have something to contribute despite not being nice enough to introduce to my grandmother?
You can always respond by pointing out that someone is being unnecessarily rude, and pointing out that this undermines their argument.
[quote=“Loretta”]So what’s the solution? Create ever more rules and standards of behaviour where everyone is afraid to speak their minds for fear of offending someone? Or just to accept that we have some rough and ready characters here who still have something to contribute despite not being nice enough to introduce to my grandmother?
[/quote]
I think you’re right, option one above is probably worse. Better off just to accept the “rough and ready characters”.
I appreciate your reply Loretta, gives a bit of life to a thread I felt I’ve paralysed with a frantic response to Yellow Cartman but moreover, it comes in at the right time illustrating well how some posters may be harsh but not whithout contributing.
In the last couple days, Tetsuo and I exchanged replies in 4 or 5 threads.
We went at each other in “Fuckable” and also exchanged a few smart ass comments in one or two other threads. I’ll admit, he riles me up but then the bastard also posted answers to help me in a couple other threads… :s. I don’t like his roughness and readyness but censoring him would mean missing out on the helpful posts too.
[quote=“Dave’s girl”]But I think Tetsuo’s learnt hs lesson. He’ll think twice next time before he starts attacking me.
[/quote]
I’ve learned a lesson too…I’ll never appreciate all of your posts but if I do appreciate some of them, perhaps they are a reason on their own to live with the less pleasant ones.
This said, it doesn’t mean that I’ll refrain myself from quoting you if I feel your posts lack integrity and you may very well do the same.
Who? What? :fume: What are you accusing me of!!! 
I’m a bit like that, insults are not required to rile me up and that’s something I need to improve.(my response to Sandmans post in this thread highlights that) Admitting I’m wrong is not always easy but if you call me an idiot, I may never throw in the towel because I simply don’t like to think I’m an idiot. Nevermind with an audience.
Agreed. The though part is to do it in the right tone however. If a poster is “unnecessarly rude”, it’s often because they are irritated by someones reply therefore their ability to respond positively is already somewhat jeopardized.
In this case, your post was friendly and a great contribution as far as a newbee is concerned here so I have no problem with admitting where I think I went wrong. In this thread anyways, I should have taken Sandmans post more lightly. He simply said do a search, sorry, not interested. That’s fair especially considering what I named the thread.
Thank you