Palastinian Elections: Hamas Wins Big

Here’s a good one.
Determined to undermine Fatah, Israel helps bankroll a rival organization, Hamas, which turns out to be far more vicious and hardcore than Fatah. That means more fighting, more suicide bombings, death and dismemberment… but, on the other hand, it also means Israel doesn’t have to make a peace deal that involves a return to the '67 borders, or anything like them. That’s convenient.

Until Israelis got tired of watching their grandfathers’ political gamesmanship played out in their shopping districts and pizzerias by increasingly desperate, angry, and hopeless young men (and women, on occasion), and on Palastinian streets by young Israelis riding shotgun over an occupation increasingly seen as illegal and immoral.

The Palastinians started to get just a wee bit practical and dressed up their leadership in democratic stripes, but it was the same old, sad-sack, corrupt administration under the same old, corrupt, self-serving “leadership”.

But–wait for it–the same radical yahoos that Israel set up to compete with Fatah, and split Palastinian support, turn out to–ha ha–successfully compete with Fatah. First real elections–and what do they do–they run a campaign against the corrupt old party and Hamas wins the Palastinian elections! They’re still just as radical when it comes to violence, and they still refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist, and Israel, Canada, the US, and EU still refuse to recognize Hamas, because it’s a terrorist organization, but damn, piss off a people for a generation or two, and look what happens… they vote for the wrong guys!

Makes it a whole lot more difficult to brush aside yahoos when they win overwhelming support at the ballot box. Not that that’ll stop anyone, but still, it looks bad. Sweeping an entire people’s aspirations under the carpet is one thing, doing so after they’ve agreed to play by democratic rules, well, that rather tarnishes the brand.

Hamas has won 76 seats in the parliament, thoroughly routing Fatah, with an overwhelming majority to create a new government without needing to form a coalition. The Palestinian prime minister and the entire cabinet have already resigned. The Israelis, Americans, and Europeans refuse to work with Hamas, who are now effectively in control of the Palestinian Authority (except for the presidency) … what happens next?

It was a fair, transparent, democratic election, and the Palestinian people made their choice, with 77% of eligible voters going to the polls, and around 70% of them voting for Hamas. It looks as though things in the Middle East are going to get much worse before they get any better.

I am tired of this Araft style peace process:

Bomb a little, sign a peace treaty, bomb a school bus to pieces [peaces], shag the body guard, bomb a little more … complain about lost land and …

OK, Arafat is dead and it is getting worse. They made their choice.

Now let Israel act. A lot of space in Arabia, isn’t there?

I once was a peace dove thinking Israel should share. I changed my mind.

Bob Kosher

This does not surprise me at all. Violence breeds violence; extremism breeds extremism. Hamas’ election is the result of Israel’s hard line, which was in turn the result of terrorism, which in turn was the result of oppression, which in turn was the result of…and so on backwards.

The cycle will continue until someone has the guts to show restraint, humility and reason instead of demanding the other side show the same first.

Welcome back J, was thinking about you and wondering where you have been. Thanks for posting this, because I’ve been a little too lazy to read CNN or anything else to figure out why everyone is happy about Hamas winning. It was informative.


You reap what you sow. Always has been true and always will be true.

Did you see the Hamas supporters rallying with their green flags and baseball caps? I bet they are made in Taiwan, or in China by a Taiwanese company - and bought with Saudi Arabian money.

This flag is definitely “made in Taiwan” (it says so on the label):

Electronic Intifada

Hamas is one crazy buncha muthas…[quote]So the good news, if you’re Hamas, is that you’ve finally won the hearts and minds of the Palestinian on the street. The bad news is that as soon as you name a leader who can capitalize on those rising poll numbers, Israel will drop a missile on his head.

If you’re Israel… Well… The good news is that you aren’t going to run out of missiles any time soon.

1987 - Hamas militarizes during the first Intifada.
21 Aug 1995 - Bus bombed in Jerusalem, kills six, injures 100. Hamas claims responsibility.
5 Jan 1996 - In Gaza, Israeli intelligence agents blow off the head of terrorist Yahya Ayyash, The Engineer, with a remote control cellphone bomb using plastic explosives. Ayyash purportedly ran the Hamas military wing, and was a proficient bomb maker; 100,000 people attended his funeral.
20 Jan 1996 - Hamas boycotts the Palestinian elections that install Yasser Arafat as head of the Palestinian Authority, which it also rejects.
4 Mar 1996 - Bombing at Tel Aviv shopping mall kills 20, injures 75. Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad claim responsibility.
25 Sep 1997 - Hamas official Khaled Mashaal survives an assassination attempt in Amman, Jordan, after agents of the Israeli Mossad injected him with an unidentified chemical. Jordanian King Hussein intervened on his behalf, citing a 1994 peace treaty, and Israel was forced to supply the antidote for Mashaal and release Sheikh Ahmed Yassin from prison in exchange for the liberation of the two Israeli assassins.
4 Mar 2001 - Suicide bomber kills three and injures 65 in Netanya, Israel. Hamas claims responsibility.
9 Aug 2001 - Bombing at Jerusalem restaurant kills 15, injures 90. Hamas claims responsibility.
11 Sept 2001 - Multiple plane hijack attacks kill thousands in New York, Washington D.C. and Pennsylvania.
Dec 2001 - U.S. freezes assets of U.S. Muslim charity, the Holy Land Foundation. Claims funds were being diverted to Hamas, among others.
2 Dec 2001 - Suicide bombing of Israeli bus kills 15, injures 40. Hamas claims responsibility.
27 Mar 2002 - Suicide bombing at Netanya restaurant kills 22, injures 140. Hamas claims responsibility.
21 Nov 2002 - Suicide bombing in Jerusalem kills 11, injures 50. Hamas claims responsibility.
21 Nov 2002 - Two suicide bombing kill a total of 13 people, injure 55. Hamas claims responsibility.
10 Sep 2003 - Chief Hamas press spokesman Mahmood al-Zahar survives an Israeli assassination attempt. Israeli F-16s dropped a several-ton bomb on his house in Rimal, in Gaza City, killing his son Khaled and his bodyguard and injuring him, his wife, and one of their daughters.
21 Mar 2004 - Israeli gunships assassinate Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin during a daybreak attack in Gaza City.
17 Apr 2004 - Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi is killed by an Israeli missle strike as he rode in his car in Gaza City. His son and his bodyguard were also killed in the car, along with several pedestrians. … ons/hamas/
Jaboney - Just curious where you got this info from. Source?

Palestinian Child Abuse

"At Thursday’s press conference, Bush said the election is a “wake-up call” to the old guard Palestinian leadership. Others say it also blew a whistle in Washington. “We’re seeing that, for now, the only alternative to secular regimes in the Middle East are the Islamists,” says Malka. “They’re the only ones who have legitimacy among the people.”
CS Monitor

There seems to be a pattern here. Whatever is left of moderate Islam is rapidly being driven into the arms of extremists and cutthroats.

This can only mean one thing. We’ve got to step up the pace of our conquest, domination, war, destruction and death in the Middle East to solve this problem.

TainanCowboy, originally I came across the information in a Robert Fisk article. The United Press article below spells out the essential arguments, but is short on corroboration. I’ve come across other sources and info, but while everyone else is celebrating Chinese New Year I’m having a belated family Christmas, so you’ll have to forgive me for not looking it up now.

Happy New Year.

[quote=“United Press International”]
Analysis: Hamas history tied to Israel

UPI Terrorism Correspondent
[…]Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel “aided Hamas directly – the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization),” said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel’s support for Hamas “was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative,” said a former senior CIA official.
Israel was certainly funding the group at that time. One U.S. intelligence source who asked not to be named said that not only was Hamas being funded as a “counterweight” to the PLO, Israeli aid had another purpose: “To help identify and channel towards Israeli agents Hamas members who were dangerous terrorists.”

In addition, by infiltrating Hamas, Israeli informers could only listen to debates on policy and identify Hamas members who “were dangerous hard-liners,” the official said.

In the end, as Hamas set up a very comprehensive counterintelligence system, many collaborators with Israel were weeded out and shot. Violent acts of terrorism became the central tenet, and Hamas, unlike the PLO, was unwilling to compromise in any way with Israel, refusing to acquiesce in its very existence.

But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: “The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place,” said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.

“Israel would still be the only democracy in the region for the United States to deal with,” he said.

All of which disgusts some former U.S. intelligence officials.

“The thing wrong with so many Israeli operations is that they try to be too sexy,” said former CIA official Vincent Cannestraro.

According to former State Department counter-terrorism official Larry Johnson, “the Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism.”

“The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer.”

“They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it,” he said.

Aid to Hamas may have looked clever, “but it was hardly designed to help smooth the waters,” he said. “An operation like that gives weight to President George Bush’s remark about there being a crisis in education.”

Cordesman said that a similar attempt by Egyptian intelligence to fund Egypt’s fundamentalists had also come to grief because of “misreading of the complexities.”

An Israeli defense official was asked if Israel had given aid to Hamas said, “I am not able to answer that question. I was in Lebanon commanding a unit at the time, besides it is not my field of interest.”

Asked to confirm a report by U.S. officials that Brig. Gen. Yithaq Segev, the military governor of Gaza, had told U.S. officials he had helped fund “Islamic movements as a counterweight to the PLO and communists,” the official said he could confirm only that he believed Segev had served back in 1986.

The Israeli Embassy press office referred UPI to its Web site when asked to comment.

I doubt whether Israel planned the Hamas defeat, although it might benefit in some way. One thing is clear, there will be no peace in the Middle East for some time to come (anything between a year and a millenium).

To understand conflict in the Middle East, it may be a good idea to study Islam’s role in international conflict first.

I get the fact that everyone needs a place to call home, but fighting over a land that can’t even grow a tomato gets me confused. (read:veryvery tongue in cheek)

Namahottie wrote:

Israel can!

Jaboney -
Thanks for the update. This is rumored to have occurred in the late '70’s thru the middle '80’s it appears - based on the time frame which would include the Brig. Gen. mentioned.
Quite plausible; Funding various groups to de-stablize a situation of the enemy.
Of course, it is doubtful that this occurred without Arafat getting a slice of the action.
It was to his benefit to keep the various factions off-bablance and unable to become a major threat to his power scheme.
So the rumor does have a whiff of believability.
Have a good CNY.

I got some strange looks when I was at Masada and said, “The Promised Land can’t be here because it is a desert. The Promised Land should be in Thailand”.

The Promised Land my ass…

:offtopic: Yes, I know…but,

One of the greatest learning experiences was in Jerusalem. Wanted to buy one of those “hats” that looked like a towel (not being disrespectful…I really don’t know that name) with the black rope that formed it to one’s head.

By the time I got out of the shop it cost $100.00USD for the goods. I never realized I was getting rat-fucked. Wow, it was a $100.00 well spent to watch that salesman in action. He rocked. :notworthy:

There are approximately 6.5 billion people in the world. 11 million of those are stateless, meaning they have no country of their own, no citizenship, no passport.

4 million of those stateless people are Palestinians, living in the Occupied Territories under Israeli military jurisdiction.

What I don’t understand is how you can have meaningful elections if you have no country of your own and the supreme authority over your day-to-day lives is the martial law imposed by a foreign military.

Under those conditions, aren’t these really just local elections? What’s meaningful about that?

spook -
I find it interesting to note that the fact that Fatah and Hamas lay claim to the entire nation of Israel is generally not mentioned by people such as your self.
Also the fact that the land area in question was historically the seat of a Jewish nation before being geographically designated as ‘Palestine.’ The name, Palestine, came about prior to any people adopting this as their “country of heritage.” Interesting omission of facts, eh?

And about the fallacious claim of this being a “local election,” all elections are ‘local.’ Local people vote in their towns, cities, villages and do so for their elected representatives/issues and governance. Maybe you are unfamiliar with the maxim - All politics are local.

Oh, and the phrase “Occupied Territories” is another created buzz-word. Very theatrical, but basically a meaningless politically inspired name that feels good to use. Do the ‘Palestinians’ who live in Jordan live in “Occupied Territory” there? How about hose in Lebanon? Those in Syria? Are the Pali terrs in Iraq conducting their activities in “Occupied Territory”?

Further -

[quote]Hamas, Like Fatah, Wants All of ‘Palestine’
By Patrick Goodenough, International Editor, January 27, 2006

( - A Hamas leader said late Thursday that the terrorist group’s victory in the Palestinian legislative elections would “complete the liberation of other parts of Palestine.”

Ismail Haniyeh, addressing a victory press conference, did not elaborate, but his pledge echoes the covenant adopted by Hamas at its founding in 1988.

“The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim,” reads article 15 of the Hamas Charter. “In face of the Jews’ usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of jihad be raised.”

Elsewhere, the document says Hamas will work “to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.”\ForeignBureaus\archive\200601\FOR20060127a.html[/quote]
Also -

[quote] Mofaz: Hamas Acting Responsibly; Hamas: Israel Must Change Flag
21:40 Jan 29, '06 / 29 Tevet 5766
By Scott Shiloh

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz told the Israeli cabinet on Sunday that since the election Hamas was acting responsibly. Shortly afterwards, a senior Hamas official called on Israel to change its flag.

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz told the Israeli cabinet on Sunday that since Hamas won a sweeping victory in last Wednesday

[quote=“Rinkals”]Namahottie wrote:

Israel can![/quote]

Kosher Tomatoes, now that’s a new one. But I still can’t see where they are GROWN. :smiley:

It may surprise a lot of people, I know it did me, but agriculture in Israel is quite advanced. Even to the point of having a large product export market.
Here is some basic info -
Agriculture in Israel
and -
Israel Agriculture Techniques

Due to its arid desert landscape, among other reasons, Israel has pioneered many new agriculural techniques. Also, as food produced there must meet Kosher certification, Israel has become a world leader in organic farming methods.
and -
Israels Super Mario

Another interesting offshoot is Israels manufacture of cosmetic, Kosher certified, ingredients sold to manufacturers world-wide. And of course, the famous “Dead Sea Mud” marketed for face packs and body soaks.