Parents and their Attitudes towards Foreign Teachers + Problems With their Children

[Achtung_Baby]

So I just wanted to share some observations of mine of the way most parents of Buxiban children seem to view the foreign teachers.

It’s very…dichotomous. A class of mine recently had a performance and while the parents were very eager to take their kid’s picture with me, absolutely none of them actually made the effort to engage me or ask me any questions, which I thought was a bit off (especially given how much they spoke to my Chinese co-teacher). For another class, I find it odd that parents ONLY want to speak to the Chinese teacher even if I am the one in the classroom teaching all of the material. I get that there’s a language barrier but what’s with the insistence on keeping me out of it?

Secondly, I’ve noticed a fierce resistance to telling parents any issues that are going on with their child. By “issues”, I mean “indicators that your child may need psychological help”. I know other foreign teachers who can attest to this as well. The reasoning is “they want to hear nice things about their children as well as the bad things”, but here’s the thing: NOBODY likes hearing bad news. I get that. But why wouldn’t a parent want to know when their kid needs help? It seems they are just insistent on keeping their heads in the sand and pretending there isn’t a problem. Thoughts?

[sandman]

[quote=“Achtung Baby”]So I just wanted to share some observations of mine of the way most parents of Buxiban children seem to view the foreign teachers.

It’s very…dichotomous. A class of mine recently had a performance and while the parents were very eager to take their kid’s picture with me, absolutely none of them actually made the effort to engage me or ask me any questions, which I thought was a bit off (especially given how much they spoke to my Chinese co-teacher). For another class, I find it odd that parents ONLY want to speak to the Chinese teacher even if I am the one in the classroom teaching all of the material. I get that there’s a language barrier but what’s with the insistence on keeping me out of it?

Secondly, I’ve noticed a fierce resistance to telling parents any issues that are going on with their child. By “issues”, I mean “indicators that your child may need psychological help”. I know other foreign teachers who can attest to this as well. The reasoning is “they want to hear nice things about their children as well as the bad things”, but here’s the thing: NOBODY likes hearing bad news. I get that. But why wouldn’t a parent want to know when their kid needs help? It seems they are just insistent on keeping their heads in the sand and pretending there isn’t a problem. Thoughts?[/quote]
You speak Chinese well enough to interact in detail about their kids? In DETAIL? You have enough daily contact? – I mean several hours per day, every day? With my kid, I listen to the teacher who deals with him all day, every day. There are no foreign helpers in his school, but even if there WERE, I very much doubt that I’d have a great deal to say to them. I don’t really speak to the teacher who takes him rollerblading for an hour or two a day, for example – she doesn’t have enough contact with him to have any real insight. And I’m sorry if this sounds callous, but the idea that some 20-something child from a totally different culture can have even the FOGGIEST idea of what constitutes “psychological help…” Well. I’m not even Taiwanese, but the kids I see working in the buxibans that I resolved NEVER to book my kid into? Sorry. No. You don’t have the wherewithal. I’ve been on the flob for many years. In all that time, I know fewer than FIVE people I’d trust with my kid’s wellbeing – Tara, Jimi, Mao and Bri. And Battery 9, but I heard she’s pretty difficult to get.
And just for your information? Our kid’s teacher – the REAL one! Comes over to our house for snacks and a gawk at the foreigner daddy on a regular basis. She’s lovely! And she’s a trained and qualified early childhood educator who keeps meticulous day-to-day records and who goes on refresher courses twice a year.
Face it – parents are NOT interested in what you have to say, as a rule. They see you as inexperienced and naive, at the very best. They SURELY are not interested in your pet theories on child-rearing. Sorry. That’s not your job.

[GuyInTaiwan]

sandman: Yet the Taiwanese teachers in buxibans often have no background in education and are just as unqualified, inexperienced and naive. One of my co-teachers at Hess had a degree in botany. Another was twenty and still at university. I actually do have an education qualification. Furthermore, the Taiwanese teacher and the foreign teacher often see the kids for the same, or similar, amounts of time each week, which is actually a very small amount of time in both cases. The OP specifically mentioned buxibans, not kindergartens staffed by people with early childhood qualifications. The OP also doesn’t need to speak Chinese. A translator would suffice.

[headhonchoII]

They are afraid of losing face with their poor English and they are afraid of interacting with foreigners in general, that’s about it really.

[sandman]

@GuyInTaiwan

sandman: Yet the Taiwanese teachers in buxibans often have no background in education

Not the ones I’m looking at. And they don’t really cost any more than other ones, of course, otherwise they wouldn’t survive. I’m not talking about some kind of hot-house specialist joint for the elite. This is Ankeng District in New Taipei. The admin just have high standards. And of course, they don’t employ foreigners.

The OP also doesn’t need to speak Chinese. A translator would suffice.

Kidding, right? Some bozo who can’t even speak your language is supposed to be telling you about your kid’s wellbeing?
Nuh-uh.

[superking]

1. Parents know their children don’t speak much English. They can get a progress report from you about the child’s improvement, but probably already get that from the Chinese teacher.
2. Having the child take their picture with you is a sign of respect to you. Not wanting to chit chat with you (through an interpreter) is not a sign of disrespect to you. You just feel left out, and therefore undervalued. I used to feel the same. Don’t beat yourself up over it, it’s just a limitation of the job. Maybe you are hankering to be a qualified teacher in your home country now you’ve some experience of liking (I assume ) teaching in Taiwan.
   3)Any psychological problem the child might have should be the concern of the parents, qualified medical practitioners and the teachers at the child’s main school. As Sandman says, it’s not your place to say anything. If the child is difficult to control, discuss it with your co-teacher or boss in terms of how best to support the child in their learning, and to prevent them from being too disruptive. If the child has some other impairment, like dyslexia again ask your co-teacher about this. Otherwise, what sorts of psychological diagnoses are you making? “Yeah, Rudy is a little dynamo but I suspect he has Münchhausen by proxy, due to all the student deaths in the class.” Dissociative, developmental, cognitive and impulse-control disorders are not your domain. Run and touch games, and chanting, “B B B buh buh buh,” are.

Any problems with the kids, deal with in-house. All the other stuff, let it go. Be thankful the parents don’t want to talk to you. No parent is able to grasp just how ordinary and ugly their child is, they ALL think their child is God’s one true miracle and will happily crap on about this fact till the cows come home. My mother was a teacher for 30+ years, and even now she dotes on her grandchildren like their mundane achievements are mind bogglingly incomprehensible. “Look your nephew wrote his name. I just can’t get over it. Isn’t it amazing?”

[GuyInTaiwan]

@sandman

[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]sandman: Yet the Taiwanese teachers in buxibans often have no background in education

Not the ones I’m looking at. And they don’t really cost any more than other ones, of course, otherwise they wouldn’t survive. I’m not talking about some kind of hot-house specialist joint for the elite. This is Ankeng District in New Taipei. The admin just have high standards. And of course, they don’t employ foreigners.[/quote]

That’s the point though. The places you’re looking at, as great as they may be, aren’t typical, or at least they’re not the places the OP is talking about.

[quote]The OP also doesn’t need to speak Chinese. A translator would suffice.

Kidding, right? Some bozo who can’t even speak your language is supposed to be telling you about your kid’s wellbeing?
Nuh-uh. [/quote]

No, surely you’re kidding. People engage in all sorts of activities with translators all the time. It’s common practice in many countries for people who cannot communicate with teachers, customs officers, the police, doctors, etc. to do so via a translator. There must be huge swathes of the U.S. or U.K. where parents and teachers do not speak the same language. That in and of itself doesn’t mean anything in terms of what one has to say to the other.

[sandman]

@GuyInTaiwan

[quote=“sandman”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]sandman: Yet the Taiwanese teachers in buxibans often have no background in education

Not the ones I’m looking at. And they don’t really cost any more than other ones, of course, otherwise they wouldn’t survive. I’m not talking about some kind of hot-house specialist joint for the elite. This is Ankeng District in New Taipei. The admin just have high standards. And of course, they don’t employ foreigners.[/quote]

That’s the point though. The places you’re looking at, as great as they may be, aren’t typical.

The OP also doesn’t need to speak Chinese. A translator would suffice.

Kidding, right? Some bozo who can’t even speak your language is supposed to be telling you about your kid’s wellbeing?
Nuh-uh. [/quote][/quote]

No, surely you’re kidding. People engage in all sorts of activities with translators all the time. It’s common practice in many countries for people who cannot communicate with teachers, customs officers, the police, doctors, etc. to do so via a translator. There must be huge swathes of the U.S. or U.K. where parents and teachers do not speak the same language. That in and of itself doesn’t mean anything in terms of what one has to say to the other.[/quote]
Sorry dude! They ARE typical. And the parents here CAN communicate with the TEACHERS. They don’t communicate with the foreign helpers because they don’t need to. They are WELL aware that these kids are NOT qualified to judge, for the most part. Come ON, man! They don’t even tend to look upon them as teachers! They wouldn’t be learning tagalog or Bahasa to discuss dietary needs with the kitchen staff, right? So why would they feel the need to communicate with the other foreign help? If the foreigner cannot get his point across to the Chinese staff, then that is the fault of the foreigner or the staff member, not the parent. A translator? In-house? For a once-a-week report from the in-house whiteface psychological consultant? Oh, PLEASE!

[GuyInTaiwan]

Once again, you’re being deliberately obtuse. I understand that’s your thing though because once you set your sights on something or someone, it has nothing to do with a rational discussion. It’s about marking territory and being snarky.

If the OP is talking about a buxiban with a foreigner, then it’s clearly non-sensical to start talking about buxibans without foreigners. Likewise, you continue to go on about TEACHERS despite the fact that the local staff may have no more qualifications in education than the foreigner concerned. Likewise, a translator doesn’t have to be anything more than another staff member. I didn’t say that was the fault of the parent. I didn’t say that was the fault of anyone, actually.

Carry on though.

[sandman]

.

[bigduke6]

Also keep in mind, that in many schools, the white face helper, is often the MOST qualified teacher there.

In most buxibans, the assistants are students or others with zero educational background. In this case the white face is MORE qualified to teach, simply by virtue of being a native speaker.
I also know many teachers with teaching degrees and certificates. Again, more qualified than the local 20 year old assistant teacher.

What I do find interesting though, is what I call self hating foreigners.
They are totally against foreigners teaching in buxibans, simply because they are foreigners.
There is a typical example who lives near me. I talk to him from time to time.
He refuses to send his kid to any buxiban that has foreign teachers.
When I ask why he cannot answer.
He teaches, so possibly he is a crap teacher.
It is ridiculous to infer that because he is crap, everyone else is.

[sandman]

Not what I’m saying at all. But this topic seems to be veering away from the topic I was addressing, which is as stated in the thread title, into the realm of English teaching, which is of no concern to me, obviously. My kid is learning English from me, and also (very nicely, thank you – and yes, I AM qualified to judge) from the Chinese teachers at his kindergarten.
So carry on. What you guys are talking about is not something that will affect me or mine, so I have no real interest in this change of topic.

[bigduke6]

Come now Sandman.

From your colorful descriptions of foreign teachers in this post, it seems you have it in for all of them. I am sure I do not have to point out these specific comments do I?

Yes, there are five that you would trust with your kid.

How many foreign teachers have you personally seen teaching? Maybe one percent of one percent of one percent?

Great that you are happy with the school that you send your kid to. But, believe me, there are many foreign teachers here more qualified than them.

Many have backgrounds and qualifications where they can make extremely relevant comments about a kids development and whether their are problems or not.

The reason, they tend to not be allowed to do this is to save the parents “face”.

Another poster mentioned the bad eyesight. I have some kids who really cannot see the the board. They squint like they are looking into direct sunlight and still cannot see.

God forbid I tell their parents that they need glasses. The shame.
To help the kids I move them to the front of the class.
When they tell their parents that they have been moved because teacher says they cannot see the board, the reaction is often worse than if teacher was fiddling with them.

[superking]

[quote=“bigduke6”]

The reason, they tend to not be allowed to do this is to save the parents “face”.

Another poster mentioned the bad eyesight. I have some kids who really cannot see the the board. They squint like they are looking into direct sunlight and still cannot see.

God forbid I tell their parents that they need glasses. The shame.
To help the kids I move them to the front of the class.
When they tell their parents that they have been moved because teacher says they cannot see the board, the reaction is often worse than if teacher was fiddling with them.[/quote]

Surely those kids who squint in your class would be squinting in other classes too, right? It can’t be the first time the parent is hearing that the child has some issues with corrected vision…

What are you saying you believe to be the reason parents of your students don’t want to listen to you, and what is the reason why your attempts at a duty of care are so abhorrent that they provoke reactions worse than the uncovering of sexual molestation? I know you are are exaggerating for effect with the sexual disclosure statement, but what are you saying is driving these things?

[sandman]

[quote=“bigduke6”]Come now Sandman.

From your colorful descriptions of foreign teachers in this post, it seems you have it in for all of them. I am sure I do not have to point out these specific comments do I?

Yes, there are five that you would trust with your kid.

How many foreign teachers have you personally seen teaching? Maybe one percent of one percent of one percent?

[/quote]
Um. Yes, actually you do. I would like to see your evidence in this thread for saying that I “have it in” for all foreign teachers. What rubbish! I DO take issue with the idea that some 20-something untrained kid with a BA is qualified to teach my child. And like it or not, THAT is the demographic that constitutes the majority of buxiban fodder here, and you KNOW this. The creme is there, but you have to SEARCH and SEARCH for those individuals. They are NOT the norm. You KNOW this, too, I’m quite sure.
You have absolutely NO IDEA of how many foreign teachers I have personally seen teaching. You want to project, go right ahead. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest. But know that you are talking through your hat.

[bigduke6]

Example 1

There are no foreign helpers in his school, but even if there WERE, I very much doubt that I’d have a great deal to say to them. I don’t really speak to the teacher who takes him rollerblading for an hour or two a day

Example 2

They don’t communicate with the foreign helpers because they don’t need to. They are WELL aware that these kids are NOT qualified to judge, for the most part. Come ON, man! They don’t even tend to look upon them as teachers! They wouldn’t be learning tagalog or Bahasa to discuss dietary needs with the kitchen staff, right? So why would they feel the need to communicate with the other foreign help? If the foreigner cannot get his point across to the Chinese staff, then that is the fault of the foreigner or the staff member, not the parent. A translator? In-house? For a once-a-week report from the in-house whiteface psychological consultant

You also mentioned the 5 you would trust your kid with. Logically the balance you would not trust your kid with.

Sorry for projecting . How many foreign teachers have you actually seen teaching?

[bigduke6]

[quote=“superking”][quote=“bigduke6”]

The reason, they tend to not be allowed to do this is to save the parents “face”.

Another poster mentioned the bad eyesight. I have some kids who really cannot see the the board. They squint like they are looking into direct sunlight and still cannot see.

God forbid I tell their parents that they need glasses. The shame.
To help the kids I move them to the front of the class.
When they tell their parents that they have been moved because teacher says they cannot see the board, the reaction is often worse than if teacher was fiddling with them.[/quote]

Surely those kids who squint in your class would be squinting in other classes too, right? It can’t be the first time the parent is hearing that the child has some issues with corrected vision…

What are you saying you believe to be the reason parents of your students don’t want to listen to you, and what is the reason why your attempts at a duty of care are so abhorrent that they provoke reactions worse than the uncovering of sexual molestation? I know you are are exaggerating for effect with the sexual disclosure statement, but what are you saying is driving these things?[/quote]

I am sure they have problems in other classes, although I do not know whether this has;

1-Been mentioned to the parents.
2-Whether the parents have done anything about it.

In each case I mention it to the school management, but in most cases they still sit and squint after it has been mentioned.

Parents in any country do not like to think their child is not perfect. Understandable.

However, in the Chinese culture it seems to be taken to another level. It seems to be almost an insult for anyone to say something is wrong with the child.

[sandman]

[quote=“bigduke6”]Example 1

There are no foreign helpers in his school, but even if there WERE, I very much doubt that I’d have a great deal to say to them. I don’t really speak to the teacher who takes him rollerblading for an hour or two a day

Example 2

They don’t communicate with the foreign helpers because they don’t need to. They are WELL aware that these kids are NOT qualified to judge, for the most part. Come ON, man! They don’t even tend to look upon them as teachers! They wouldn’t be learning tagalog or Bahasa to discuss dietary needs with the kitchen staff, right? So why would they feel the need to communicate with the other foreign help? If the foreigner cannot get his point across to the Chinese staff, then that is the fault of the foreigner or the staff member, not the parent. A translator? In-house? For a once-a-week report from the in-house whiteface psychological consultant

You also mentioned the 5 you would trust your kid with. Logically the balance you would not trust your kid with.

Sorry for projecting . How many foreign teachers have you actually seen teaching?[/quote]
Precisely. As I thought. You’re projecting. Seeing things that aren’t there.
How many? over the last 25 years? Hundreds, probably. Certainly many dozens.

[bigduke6]

How many? over the last 25 years? Hundreds, probably. Certainly many dozens.

Well, looks like my projections were pretty spot on :bravo:

As I said, one percent of one percent of one percent. Probably less over 25 years.

BTW, I would say the comments I hilighted, do show some contempt for foreign English teachers.

[superking]

[quote=“bigduke6”][quote=“superking”][quote=“bigduke6”]

The reason, they tend to not be allowed to do this is to save the parents “face”.

Another poster mentioned the bad eyesight. I have some kids who really cannot see the the board. They squint like they are looking into direct sunlight and still cannot see.

God forbid I tell their parents that they need glasses. The shame.
To help the kids I move them to the front of the class.
When they tell their parents that they have been moved because teacher says they cannot see the board, the reaction is often worse than if teacher was fiddling with them.[/quote]

Surely those kids who squint in your class would be squinting in other classes too, right? It can’t be the first time the parent is hearing that the child has some issues with corrected vision…

What are you saying you believe to be the reason parents of your students don’t want to listen to you, and what is the reason why your attempts at a duty of care are so abhorrent that they provoke reactions worse than the uncovering of sexual molestation? I know you are are exaggerating for effect with the sexual disclosure statement, but what are you saying is driving these things?[/quote]

I am sure they have problems in other classes, although I do not know whether this has;

1-Been mentioned to the parents.
2-Whether the parents have done anything about it.

In each case I mention it to the school management, but in most cases they still sit and squint after it has been mentioned.

Parents in any country do not like to think their child is not perfect. Understandable.

However, in the Chinese culture it seems to be taken to another level. It seems to be almost an insult for anyone to say something is wrong with the child.[/quote]

Thanks for your reply, bigduke6. The tricky thing with teaching is that people often get into it because they care about kids, but then the actual job requires you to be able to distance yourself from any attachment to the child. An issue like sightedness or lexical errors are frustrating because at some point the teacher, the system and the parent all end up butting heads. Once it’s been mentioned to the school and filtered through to the parent then it falls out of your hands. We just have to let parents carry on with the job of fucking up their children as they see fit.

Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

Larkin knew what he was talking about.

As to the Sandman/BigDuke fest: In some schools the foreigner is more qualified than the locals. In some schools the locals are more qualified than the foreigner. How the foreigner perceives their role, and how the parent perceives their role may be closely matched or they may be widely misaligned. You two shouting at each other about who knows more than the other is futile. What you have both observed and believe is important, but the only way this will be of any use is if you are able to integrate these two different viewpoints. However, I suspect that luring each other out of your dark places to do battle in the light is more exciting and purposeful to you than the issue at hand. You big silly boys.