[quote=“Bassment Productions”]I should adapt and just cruise round as they are used to diving out of the way of cars but so far I haven’t.
I end up sitting there with my indicator flashing, waiting for them to cross first. They look at me in bemusement as it’s probably the first time since they became mobile that anyone has given way to them![/quote]
No it’s not that… they all still recognize you from the way your drove around a 6 tonne 12 litre supercharged 4WD looking to score points…
Demz people knows what happends when you decides to play cannon ball run.
So, does this imply that if a pedestrian walks across a the road on HIS red light and I happen to hit him with my car, I will be responsible? Seems like this kind of rule will make pedestrians even more careless (especially if they’ve just done their routine trip to the temple).
Classic stuff. When some international press is in town, make things look good. When they leave, let the fiasco continue as before. Way to go.
So, drivers are responsible (liable) if they hit a pedestrian who walks across a road on a red light, so they just ask pedestrians to please stop at red lights. Shouldn’t a pedestrian be responsible and liable for breaking the law too? How about applying rules equally to motorists and pedestrians?
I suspect that this is a classic case of shitty reporting by the TT again. It wouldn’t make any sense if this was true. This report is probably missing 50% of the relevant info for a proper report. Then again, Taiwan is full of surprises.
There is such a disconnect between traffic rules, observation of the rules and enforcement of the rules. It’s hard to take these pronouncements seriously until they actually but some bite into their bark.
It also seems like the fines seldom fit the seriousness of the infractions. You are exposed to a NT$10K fine for not having followed the rules for getting a local license and a NT$1,200 fine for riding a scooter in a left-side car-only lane (neither of which is obviously dangerous or life threatening, in my opinion) whereas the proposed stiffer fines for (nearly) running down a pedestrian are between NT$1200-$3600. It seems I’d read somewhere before that the current fine for that, not that it is ever levied, is NT$600.
Cops would rather hide behind trees or up on overpasses taking pictures of scooters in left lanes trying to get around swerving busses and taxies or double/tripled parked cars than actually stopping someone for dangerous driving. Illegal is illegal, but I would still rather see sensible laws making roads safer, fines that fit the severity of the infraction and consistent enforcement.
“Pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way” was one of the first things I learned when learning to drive in the UK. Drilled into me by my dad, the driving instructor, the Highway Code, pretty much everything.
Pretty much the same in the US, which was drilled into us over the course of a whole semester in high school in Drivers’ Education class.
It’s boils down to enforcement, though. I think most people here, when asked directly about driving rules, will know the answer, but since the rules are seldom enforced, drivers will ignore them.
That is true as long as the pedestrians are where they are supposed to be, which is either A) on the sidewalk or B) crossing the road on a zebra crossing on their green light, then the pedestrian ‘right of way’ prevails. Some cities (or countries) have pedestrian crossings without lights, and motorsist are expected to stop whenever a pedestrian crosses the road. However, should a pedestrian choose to run across a boulevard (not on a zebra crossing) and go through the median (where there are often bushes) and pop out in front of oncoming traffic, surely I wouldn’t run the risk of causing an accident by hitting the brakes or swerving to avoid said ‘pedestrian’.
If motorists and pedestrians knew where they should be and follow laws (which would need to be enforced correctly too), there wouldn’t be any need for the Director of City Traffic to ‘urge’ citizens to do anything.
Gotta love the creativity in some police departments…
In Canada the general rule is that the pedestrians have the right of way. However, if some jogger dressed in black jay walks at midnight and gets run down the driver is not held responsible. The liability of a pedstrian is generally not an issue because if there if there is a case were significant damage is done to the vechicle the pedestrian is generally no longer among the living.
If he does so on the pedestrian ‘zebra striped’ crosswalk, I believe you will be held responsible, yes, regardless of the lights – or so I was informed during a class on Taiwan law given by an expat lawyer through the Community Services Center long ago.
I imagine that one of the problems is that you may not have any evidence of the color of the lights at the time, but the location and the fact that you have the vehicle (versus a much more vulnerable pedestrian) don’t change.
In the States pedestrians always have the right of way, if I remember correctly. However, it’s not like police officers won’t hand out jaywalking tickets if they see you crossing a busy intersection without using the crosswalk.
In Taipei pedestrians often have to resort to jaywalking since every time no cars will stop and yield to them when it is their time to cross the street, plus most of the time drivers and scooter riders will shoot them dirty looks for not yielding to them when they’re supposed to be the ones to yield :fume: . Pretty much, it’s often safer to just cross a street whenever there’s a brief window of opportunity when the traffic lights turn red at both end intersections and no cars are moving, as retarded as that sounds
Huh? Not as far as I know. That’s not what I was taught, at least. Only difference is you’ll have a better case when you’re up in court. You’d still be held in the wrong, but “extenuating circumstances” would maybe get you off.
While I don’t disagree that some careful ones may resort to jaywalking intentionally, most of the ones I see jaywalking don’t even bother to look to see if a vehicle is coming; this clueless behavior implies that they are jaywalking due to a suibian attitude rather than out of self defence motivation. It’s all just part of the chaos and chabuduo-ism of Taiwanese culture.
You’re kidding, right? You think someone breaking a rule gives you the right to run them down?[/quote]
While I think that might be considered acceptable for a dog or cat or frog, it would possibly get you a prison sentence if you tried it on a human. And rightfully so. You’re not supposed to kill people for being naughty, or even stupid.
Timely topic - I was hit this morning as I was coming home from walking my son to school. I was in a cross-walk (zebra for the continentals), the light was red and the driver clearly saw me and still did not stop before thumping me.
IMO, the money quote in the TT article is the one about the Taiwan politico whop was hit - this and the coming Deaf Olympic are the entire reason for this bit of political theater. It is too deeply ingrained in the mind-set of this inbred culture to actually obey the traffic laws unless an actual “LEO” is standing right in front of their car/motorscooter. Or sending the citation via the mail.
As this article appears in an engrish lingo paper, one does wonder if it will be re-printed, as it appears here, in a widely read Chinese newspaper such as the Apple? Maybe someone can let us know if it is?
Growing up in the USA I was also taught the pedestrian right-of-way in the cross-walk (zebra zone). It is a very steep fine and penalty in every state for violating it by creeping into it, stopping/parking in it and hitting a pedestrian in this area. Very steep. In some cases, it is an immediate confiscation of the drivers license on the spot by the Officer responding to the offense followed by possible revocation/suspension for up to two (2) years.
However, this is Taiwan and I think it futile to make any comparison, other than for conversational comparison, to the circus-like antics of the drivers/'scooter operators here and those of other countries. There is just no learned/taught feeling of personal responsibility for ones actions here. This. IMO, makes all the difference.
For those wondering, both of you, there was no damage to either myself or the vehicle which thumped me this a.m. It was a local Mother taking her offspring to school. The kid knows me from the neighborhood. He recognized me and began telling his Mother - “You hit Uncle MaiGuo!..You hit Uncle Mai Guo!..Mamaaa MaMaaaa…You hit Uncle Mai Guo!”
A couple of local shop owners who were opening up saw it and as I picked myself up came over to me as she was driving away. I assured them all was OK. They told me - “We will talk to her!”
You’re kidding, right? You think someone breaking a rule gives you the right to run them down?[/quote]
uh…maybe my post wasn’t clear enough…If the law breaking, selfish jaywalker is in clear view, it would be obvious that anyone in their right mind would do their best to avoid running this person over…but on planet Taiwan (since this is a board about Taiwan), jaywalkers often don’t give two hoots about what they are doing and the possibility of causing a serious accident due to their lack of care and awareness…as I’ve had several near misses with jaywalkers peeling across major roads only to keep their pace through the median (which is full of bushes) only to leap out into a wave of cars coming off a traffic light (think of deer running across the road)…these jaywalkers don’t give much of a chance for drivers to react, and a reaction isn’t always possible to avoid hitting them…and what I’m saying is that I wouldn’t go so far as to binning it myself just to avoid hitting someone…same for a dog, same for a cat, same for a deer.
As many have seen here, lots of people have no sense of self preservation and act accordingly. You’ve probably been to Hong-Kong, and have you noticed the amount of roadside gates/barriers throughout the city? I’d bet that those are to prevent the exact type of situation that I’m referring to…if pedestrians won’t listen and follow the rules, then block access to the roads between intersections and flow pedestrians to the place where they SHOULD be crossing…
And to be clear, I certainly don’t disagree with the pedestrian right of way on sidewalks and crosswalks…ever try jaywalking in Montreal or Paris? See how your life flashes before your eyes more times than you can count.
A few weeks ago, I was driving along TiDing Boulevard in Neihu. It was dark. There were just a few cars, and we were travelling the speed limit of 70km/hr. A lady in dark clothing had climbed over the barrier and was crossing the road, that is, she was crossing through that center lane where the traffic can go without interrruptions from right and left turns etc. I had to emergency stop to prevent hitting her. This got me wondering, what is the “ruling” on this in Taiwan? She was breaking the law, crossing the road there, she was hardly visible, and it was just lucky I didn’t get hit from behind then maybe be pushed into her. Or would I have just been wrong because I am driving?
I don’t know what they do here, but I BELIEVE that in the UK, if you hit and killed her, you’d be charged with vehicular manslaughter (or something like that, not sure of the actual charge). You’d go to court, your solicitor would conduct a defence and you’d probably get off.
If the pedestrian survived, she’d probably get charged with being on a non-pedestrian road, endangering peoples’ safety or something (not sure about that, but she’d definitely get done for something). Just because they always have the right of way doesn’t mean there aren’t laws to protect drivers from fools or suicides or whatever.
Actually, I don’t have a clue. I’m just shooting the shit here. Its an interesting topic, though.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Timely topic - I was hit this morning as I was coming home from walking my son to school. I was in a cross-walk (zebra for the continentals), the light was red and the driver clearly saw me and still did not stop before thumping me…
For those wondering, both of you, there was no damage to either myself or the vehicle which thumped me this a.m. It was a local Mother taking her offspring to school. The kid knows me from the neighborhood. He recognized me and began telling his Mother - “You hit Uncle MaiGuo!..You hit Uncle Mai Guo!..Mamaaa MaMaaaa…You hit Uncle Mai Guo!”
A couple of local shop owners who were opening up saw it and as I picked myself up came over to me as she was driving away. I assured them all was OK. They told me - “We will talk to her!”
The fun never stops.[/quote]
Glad to hear you are ok. No whiplash? Hope you still feel ok tomorrow morning.
There is a moral argument why drivers are always to be held responsible: If you kill or hurt someone it is because you wanted to drive a little quicker than was safe for everyone around you. Cars are using a privilige which impinges on pedestrians’ rights to roam freely. The car driver is basically wielding an ton of metal at a hazardous pace for the sake of his own mobility.
You should always drive at a speed and with sufficient observation to stop suddenly if a pedestrian steps out in front of you.
Unfortunately here in Taiwan the pedestrians’ rights have been viciously curtailed by the imposition of jaywalking fines and measures that encourage vehicular mobility at their expense of their safety.
A friend’s aunt was killed this way. She was wearing dark clothing and crossing a road illegally and at night when struck by a non-DUI driver, driving normally. The driver was not charged AFAIK. That was back in the US.
