Pension Plan Options

This is about Roth IRA’s and your options if you make money in an overseas country. It seems you can make money in a foreign country, pay no tax on it, and then put money in your Roth IRA. I talked it over with the IRS agent at AIT last Monday. He thought you could, but directed me to the following publication to be sure.

irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p590.pdf

You’ll need adobe acrobat to read it. So if an IRS agent gives you grief, please have him note page 53, publication 590, 2002 tax returns and the way you come up with the minimum amount of income available to put into a Roth IRA. It’s pretty straightforward once you have your 1040 and 2555EZ in front of you. If you need any help PM me, we can meet and I can figure it out in about 5-10 minutes for you.

I’m a big believer in this. I just don’t want to be pushing a bicycle with a lot of recylables like I see in my neighborhood with a lot of old people. I want to live in a cold windy place and be active with my grandchildren.

CYA
Okami

Smart saver… but Disagree with the bad advice by AIT. See P. 53 for Roth IRA and then go to Chapter 1 for non-qualified contributions including foreign income exclusion. However, if you had any domestic income prior to coming to Taiwan last year, then that compensation up to $3000.00 will be qualified for a Roth IRA or traditional IRA. Even if your 2002 contribution is funded by Taiwan earnings from this year is very immaterial if there is any US domestic earned income up to $3000.00.

However, one might be eligible to make a non-deductible contribution but read the rules carefully. I don’t think this is feasible.

Those with just “part-time” resident income in Taiwan will not be qualified by foreign earned income exclusions and is “domestic”. Foreign Exclusion requires bonafided residence or physical presence test of over 11 months within any consecutive 12 month period. So this Taiwan earned income is not excludable, if one merely held a summer job in Taiwan but then went home to graduate school in the USA.

However, one can contribute to tax-deferred annuity with foriegn income.
So try out Vanguard or USAA for commission-free variable annuities or try no-load American Life of New York before paying commissions for a variable annuity with limited investment choices:
americanlifeny.com 80 No-load funds

I’m interested in the kind of pension plans people here are involved with. I’m totally ignorant of the options available and how to go about setting something up, so any advice would be appreciated. I don’t think I have much to spend (maybe NT$5,000/month or so) and I’m a British citizen.
What would be a safe way for me to invest this money for the future and how do I maximise the earnings?
I really am an ignoramus on this – I don’t even know what “index-linked” means.
Any help, opinions, flames would be much appreciated.

talk to an insurance company. I do not think Taiwan has anything like a state pension.

For instance my wife has dumped money into some sort of insurnace policy that pays back after 5 years. You know the sort of thing, but as of pensions apart from those recieved for ex soliders and civil servants , I do not think there are any pensions out there

If there were there would be a lot less old people pushing carts around looking for garbage

Yes, I already have a few insurance plans that will mature as I reach my 60s (and beyond, if I’m lucky enough to last that long), but these will not be enough to keep me and mine in the manner to which we are accustomed.
I’m not really interested in local pension options, either – I was thinking more along the lines of something offshore or UK-based. I mean, Americans can do these Roth things, can’t they? Isn’t that a pension plan? What would be the British equivalent?

Are you paying your NI for the state pension, such as it is ? 6 squids a week, 2 squids if you register as self-employed. A lot less than they would take from your salary.

Do you mean the British state pension? I’m not paying for that. How would I go about doing so? And wouldn’t I need to be actually living there in order to get it? I need something I’d be able to use no matter where I was living.

[quote=“sandman”]Do you mean the British state pension? I’m not paying for that. How would I go about doing so?[/quote]The tax office would be more than happy to take your money for it. or HERE You can pay your NI upto 7 years in arrears, then you loose your chance to pay it. I just paid off a couple of years at around 350 squids a year.
more stuff -> inlandrevenue.gov.uk/cnr/osc.htm
You would pay the class 3 contributions. Some expats regisiter as self-employed and get the cheaper class 2 contributions.

[quote]And wouldn’t I need to be actually living there in order to get it? I need something I’d be able to use no matter where I was living.[/quote]You don’t need to be resident, but they may pay it into a UK bank. pensions.gov.uk/directpayment/overseas.asp

I know the UK pension isn’t a lot, but it’s better than nothing.

It’s a take care of yourself type place. Invest yourself.

You could by mutual funds through most banks.
HSBC has an excellent internet banking service.
You can track everything online and make purchases.
Plus…it’s all in English.5000 is the monthly min you need to invest.

If your chinese is ok good enough, you could contact the fund companies directly and see what they have to offer.
Fidelity, Schroders, Dresdner

A third option is contact a financal planner and see what they can do. A little costly though.

Check out www.fool.com to find out more about investing.

A site about investing called fool.com? What a great name!

Big Fluffy - the British state pension is tiny tiny tiny. You’re better off saving your money in a high interest account. Private pensions in UK are in a state of turmoil if you believe the papers, so tread carefully. I read that many of the private pensions on offer in Britain seem ok but actually are crap. You pay in your hard-earned pennies for 20-odd years and you get back… not many pennies.

So, Sandman, please spend hours and hours researching which are the best pension plans and then tell me what you find out. Thanks! 'Preciate it!

Spack: I agree, and it’s not going to get better, but I don’t know how much NI Sandman has already paid, it might be worth his time to keep it up to date, especially if he goes back to the UK. I wasn’t try to say the UK state pension is worth it, just giving it as an option and saying how to go about it.

Thanks for those links, BFM. I’ll email them after the Christmas period. Don’t think I’ll get much joy, though. I suppose I must have been paying full-time NI contributions for about 10 years before I came here. However, I’ve been here for 15 years without paying anything, so I expect the 7 years arrears thing is out for me.
Anyway, the kind of pension I want would allow me to buy a yacht or spend the winter in Barbados, not give me the choice between Fray Bentos and Pedigree Chum. :wink:

Someone mentioned insurance companies. If you want to establish a retirement account definitely do not rely on an insurance company. You’ll do much better on your own. Open a retirement account with a reputable brokerage firm. I use www.tdwaterhouse.com but there are lots of alternatives.

The reason why a US citizen should open an IRA or Roth account is because it is intended for retirement and taxes are not due until the money is withdrawn, at age 65 or 70 or whatever. Otherwise, with a regular brokerage account, any gains are taxable each year. While it may not seem like much of a difference, not having to pay taxes on the gain each year but instead having all taxes due at the end can result in a difference of many thousands of dollars. I don’t know whether the same kind of accounts are available to citizens of other countries, but if they are they should be used. The drawback is that if you withdraw the money early from such an account there is a substantial penalty (but in a way that’s not a drawback – it’s added incentive to leave the money in there till retirement).

You mentioned index funds. Those are good. One can purchase shares of stock in individual companies and if the companies do well you can make great profits. But that is risky becasue individual companies can also fail splendidly. Mutual funds are safer as they are invested in a variety of companies. Therefore the investment is more diversified. Consequently, there is less chance of a spectacular gain. . . but there’s also less chance of spectacular loss. Which is what you want in your retirement account. There are many types of mutual funds. One fund might invest only in large-cap companies; another in only technology companies; another in only emerging markets. The problem with each of those types of funds is that you pay large management fees to the bozos who manage the funds, decided which stocks to buy, and usually end up losing money anyway.

An indexed fund, on the other hand, requires far less management becasue it is simply a collection of stocks that are representative of a particular index (such as the DOW or NASDAQ, which are themselves rough approximations of the market as a whole). Vanguard is very well-respected for their index funds. I think I have Vanguard Index Trust Fund, which has done very well. Another good index fund is Torray, but there are lots of such funds to pick from. Do some research on Motley Fools website, mentioned above, or elsewhere.

Be extremely wary of advice regarding particular stocks, becasue usually the people with such advice lack relevant information or are biased or most commonly (as in advice published in Money Magazine or the like), such advice is too old. By the time everyone’s bragging about what a great stock Acme Widgets is, lots of people have gotten excited and bought its stock, which has risen to a ridiculous price, if you buy it you will pay too much, and in no time the price will drop and you will rue your foolish purchase. That’s not to say one shouldn’t buy individual stocks, but they are more risky than an index fund, should be the result of serious research (Motley Fools is a good starting place), and should be the smaller part of your portfolio. For a beginnner, an index fund is a better first purchase.

No need to winter in Barbados. Phuket has a gigantic Tesco’s. You’ll be all set then.

Oh, and I was under the impression that you already were on pension.

:wink:

There are basically two types of plans, defined benefit and defined contribution plans.

Defined benefit plans are pension plans and are traditionally sponsored by large corporations that have been around since the days pensions were in fashion. Upon retirement, you will receive a “defined benefit” based upon years of service, salary at the time of retirement, etc. This doesn’t apply to people in TW because defined benefit plans are more of an old school approach and are typically provided by older companies.

Most new companies have defined contribution plans, that is, retirement plans that are based on their own cash contributions. You make your own contributions and you also control where the money is invested. In the US, employer plans have many names such as 401(k), 403(b), and then there are accounts like IRAs and Roth IRAs that have nothing to do with your employers, but these retirement plans are basically the same as your standard run-of-the-mill stock brokerage trading account. The only difference is the fact that these retirement plans are tax deferred (no taxes until you withdraw), whereas your typical brokerage account is not tax deferred. But for most people living in TW teaching English, you probably don’t even pay taxes to your home country (minimum income for a US citizen is something like US$70K before you’re required to pay US taxes) and TW taxes are so low that there isn’t much of a deferred tax benefit to retirement plans. But retirement plans have early withdrawal penalties, so they are less flexible.

So to cut through all the hocus pocus, if you want to plan for retirement and you’re living in TW, you’re probably better off just opening a stock brokerage account and buying some mutual funds. If you’re incredibly incredibly risk averse and don’t mind losing money in the long run to get that sense of security, then an insurance company plan might work for you. But generally speaking, anything you buy from an insurance company will probably be a losing proposition from an investment perspective, and you’re probably much better off (especially if you are not near retirement age) to invest in mutual funds. You’ll actually make money instead of losing money. Bonds are usually only for people close to retirement age, mutual funds are best for young people.

Personally, I like to have a nice diversified mix for my retirement funds. In the past, I have been known to put 25% in an international fund, 25% in a small cap US fund, 25% in an aggressive growth US fund, and 25% in a standard US fund.

In terms of recommended US brokerages to open an account, Scottrade has no minimum balance and does not charge for most mutual fund purchases (unless the fund itself charges a fee). I also recommend opening up a brokerage account with a large mutual fund company manager like Fidelity or Vanguard because their brokerages typically do not charge brokerage fees for any funds that they manage. And they manage so many funds that there’s plenty to choose from. Some brokerages have minimum balances, so watch out, but I know Fidelity for example will waive its minimum balance requirement if you receive all statements electronically.

Woohooo! Nothing like waking up, checking the stock market and learning that you made $1,000 while you slept. Yesterday was a good day for the US stock market. Today will be a good day in Taiwan.

I hope you will proceed with your plan Sandman. You’re already relatively old to be getting started on a retirement plan, but the earlier you start the better. A couple of questions to look into with whatever fund you invest in: what’s the minimum starting contribution and is there a minimum amount you can contribute each month?

Experts all advise one to make regular contributions and having it transferred automatically into ones retirement account would be ideal. I wonder how that would work here though. My retirement contributions since arriving in Taiwan have been sporadic and I have done them the hard way – by walking into the bank and dealing with people.

Does anyone have NT$ transferred automatically, and converted, in to an account overseas? Is that easy to arrange?

Scottrade requires that you have a U.S. address in order to do business with them.

I’m pretty sure Schwab allows non-U.S. accounts, but their fees are about triple anyone else’s.

Regarding mutual funds, if you have a bunch of money saved up, you can just look at what a particular fund holds and buy the stocks yourself. It might or might not be worth it to do so, since the brokerage fees can add up, but some mutual funds charge quite a bit for “management fees”, and you have to keep an eye on your statements to make sure you’re paying taxes correctly.

And nothing like waking up, checking the news, and seeing the CEO of your favorite stock being hauled away in handcuffs for falsifying accounting statements. . . .

You also need to consider what would happen if the NT suddenly shot up sometime down the road. When I arrived in Taiwan the NT was 38 to the pound; now it’s around 55 or thereabouts.

If you get a plan now and it then climbs to 60, 70 plus (I hope to hell that it won’t), it may not be worth sending money home into a UK pension plan.

This article in Telegraph UK seems to suggest that non-resident UK citizens can’t get a pension, personal plan or otherwise.

Does anybody here from UK have a personal pension plan?

Also, I see that Prudential have a branch here. ANyone know if it would be possible to get a pension plan here in Taiwan and then transfer it to UK when (if) I move back?

I’m going to be calling the Pru in Taiwan at some stage anyway but I thought I’d keep the discussion going.

No, that is correct.

Pension plans contain tax advantages you won’t be entitled too. Nor can you continue to pay into the plans for the same reasons.

Best to make lots of money here :wink: or speak to someone who can advise on particular solutions.

Kenneth