Religion and most religious practices, somewhere at the core have some logic, but also some practical usage. I mean, even the sacrificial lamb, meant that after a sacrifice the tribesmen would have a hearty meal or later it was shared among the poor.
Why confession in Catholicism. I’ve read about it and although I can’t digest the ‘original sin’ theory, I am assuming there must be another reason why the practice still continues. Does confession equal penance and lead to repentance? Is that it?? Or is there a more obvious, social reason for it?
(I am assuming it was not done so that the priests knew all the secrets of their parish).
Edit: What baffles me, is really is that there is parallel practice seen in any other religion. It’s unique to Catholics. Or is it?
Confession? You tell some stuff (sins you did) to your priest in private (confession booth) … after which he will ask you to say some prayers and tell you to hold back next time … all your sins are cleared … blank slate, easy …
The obvious reason is that they didn’t really give too much of a shit about spiritual matters, but were embroiled in the power politics of the time when these "rules’ were written, and thus gave themselves Godlike authority with which to manipulate, dominate and oppress the easily-swayed in the here and now. Heaven forbid that people have the gall to call directly to God without first going through his power bureaucracy on earth.
divea, It’s a surreal day for me to see jimipresley explaining Catholicism to you.
Off course you know I am with tomthorne in my idea that it’s all a little silly. And I’m sure there is truth in jimipresley’s explanation for the initial installation of the practice, but surely in modern times the practice has also - to some extent - acted as a type of catharsis. You just need to get something off your chest and it’s cheaper than therapy. You’re guilt has probably been heightened by the church’s teaching (which tells you that even thinking dirty thoughts about your neighbor’s husband is nasty). Surely regular confession allows people to unburden themselves.
Your question needs to be split into two: 1. why was confession set up originally? and 2. Why does it still remain?
The answer to the first one can easily be found with some googling, it’s not a mystery. Including why Protestants moved away from it.
The second one is open to interpretation and therefore much more interesting, to me at least. I’m of the opinion that it is maintained because it is an incredibly powerful vehicle for controlling the followers. After all, power and control is what the CC is all about (some individual priests are an exception).
Imposing guilt and shame, threatening with sanctions, offering a way-out = control mechanism
divea, think about how tough it can be to keep a secret. Think about how a really nasty secret can gnaw at you. Confession is supposed to provide an outlet for that, as well as advice and guidance. Ideally.
See, this is what I thought wouldn’t have been a reason. I mean, couldn’t the people at the time, see through it??
BTW Thank you Tash and Jaboney for logical answers.
Tomthorne, I know it’s hard for you to grasp, but I wasn’t looking down on Catholicism. I am not THAT dumb. If I was, I would have started with why you can’t have abortions and abstinence and all that ruckus. I was reading up on how and why people confess - generally, and so the religious thing came to mind and you know how thoughts work. Trust me here, will ya?
TK
and then it becomes a habit …
This is how the train of thought wandered to Catholicism.
But okay, if it just means that it was more about religious politics and power, fair enough.
It’s all about having a second chance. Also it did away with buying favors and absolution from the clergy which led to corruption in the catholic church and crusades with the muslims.
(Kill a muslim-get out of jail/hell free! Yippie!) You were given a chance at absolution but not a guarantee. To this day you still aren’t guaranteed absolution-if you are truly sorry-and you know if you are cause God is omnipotent and knows when you’ve been naughty or nice- then you’ll be forgiven. But it ain’t guaranteed.
It’s a grand way to go on with life and not just say-“Oh well-screwed up this life-might as well go on a killing spree since I’m already damned.” You get to heaven-say the catholics-by good works and living a christ-like life. We’re forgiven our humanly original sin by baptism-then our own fuck ups are dealt with in confession. The priest is there to help you through it all-like a plumber-and God’s his boss. The backed up toilet is your life…etc.
The protestants just believe in DIY and don’t need anyone who they call “Father” mucking around as a middle man (which is ridiculous since they have clergy too) and are secretly jealous of all the whistles and bells in the catholic mass. They’re like ugly girls who weren’t invited to prom and sneer at the dresses and hair-dos. Which make the Eastern Orthodox church the drag queens of christianity.
The catholics really play the guilt card hard so confession is kind of a pressure release valve for the whole thing. Can’t have sex before marriage, can’t kill yourself-but you can drink and knock the crap out of people and wage war if it is Just. (Perfect religion for the Irish/fillipinos I might add)
I hope that helps. Fr. Bubba has consultation times between 11PM and 3PM in the Speak Easy most evenings.
Whether or not answers like that make sense depends, of course, on whether one accepts the belief system of that particular religion. From the outside, it is hard to make sense of the beliefs and practices of ANY religion, and it is natural to ask questions about it. Even those within a religion may question the beliefs and practices, and sometimes that leads to departure from that religion.
Personally, as an ex-Catholic, I can tell you that MY perspective is that I DID see through it, I did think “original sin” was BS, I did perceive of the whole CC set up as a control-oriented phenomenon, I could see the control-oriented aspect within my own family, and that is part of why I left the religion. The backlash that I was faced with in return for my exercising my basic and inalienable right to freedom of belief and freedom of speech as a result is PROOF, IMO, of the control-oriented aspect, and I must say that it was an extremely traumatic experience, resulting in my opinion that centralized, dogmatic, male-dominated, traditional religion is (and I’m toning it WAAAY down here) not a nice thing, and to be avoided at all costs.
IMHO, it’s based on a portion of the Scripture taken out of context. And it’s possibly used as a mechanism to create a power structure in order to maintain control over those that practice confessing. Because anytime you know someone else’s dirty secrets, you can use it to blackmail them eh? Of course, that’s just a cynical take on confession.
Thanks DB. It takes great courage to break away from religion and social norms, and still be more upright, honest and a considerate individual than any religious nutter. :bravo:
I wish I could double recommend DB’s post. Besides my feelings of empathy with regards to reactions to his leaving his religion, the above quote really says it all. You won’t understand religious practices you don’t partake of, and if you did get around to questioning your own, you’d be in danger of being damned.
Although it took me a long time to give up belief in God entirely, I left the church (not Catholic), because - although the people in it were sincere, good, well-intentioned people - I questioned attitudes towards sexism, homosexuality, and other religions (as well as questioning some of the basic tenets and some simply ridiculously silly stories), and it just didn’t make sense anymore.
I’ve recommended the following book before and will recommend it countless times again, as it is a book appreciated by Christians more than Dawkins’ or Hitchen’s writing is:
Lobdell’s “Losing My Religion” (How I Lost My Faith Reporting on Religion in America and Found Unexpected Peace)
divea, try and find it. It is a beautiful read, as he maintains a certain respectful attitude towards religions which I wouldn’t have found necessary.
I feel I am helping us veer off topic, but this is the way most religion threads go, and we have to admit that this happens for a reason: while a lot of religious activity helps the individuals practicing it, as well as others through acts of charity, it doesn’t really make much sense to the uninitiated (and I - at least - would say that it shouldn’t).
So, confession can be explained psychologically or in terms of power, but its not going to make sense to you, just as your religious beliefs won’t make sense to others. Just another reason to not to believe in any of it, and instead look for other ways to make the world better.
I remember that in my first year at varsity I had to do a silly little assignment writing up on a group other than my own (so I could have chosen anything - mechanics, Afrikaans speakers, Muslims). As I had a Catholic friend handy, I chose Catholicism (back then I still separated Catholics from other Christian groups). I will never forget interviewing my friend on the topic in her kitchen. It was all quite interesting and we’d already wandered her church checking out the 12 stations of the cross. I’d started to get that these people were a little bit stranger to me than I had thought. In the kitchen, though, I must have asked her about what rituals were important to Catholics, as she was speaking about how taking the wafer during the Eucharist (the eating of the bread) was symbolic of eating the body of Christ. At this point, her mom ran in screeching from the living room (the religious sometimes like to check up on their kids): “It is NOT symbolic. IT IS THE BODY OF CHRIST! IT IS THE BODY OF CHRIST! IT
IS THE BODY OF CHRIST!”
I wish I still had the benefits of religion (the unburdening of sin, the fellowship, belief in a higher power), but I am so happy that I do not have to explain why other religions are wrong, why Jesus needed to died, why confession is important, or any of the other countless beliefs of numerous religions. I’m happy I don’t have to explain things which don’t have any logical explanation. But whatever you do, don’t pick on your kids when they choose to see things differently. There’s nothing worse than Catholic parents pissed off with their kid for not going to confession or not believing in transubstantiation, or atheist parents screeching at their kid after she finds Allah.
I am not new to Christianity or Catholicism*. It’s not the belief that I was questioning. I was wondering what the deeper social benefits were the clergy thinking of when they devised the whole ‘come to me and repent’ thingy. I am not satisfied with the answers, but maybe my questioning is not precise enough.
*I studied in a convent that was liberal and no other religion was mocked. However, the protestant BOARDING :loco: school I went to had me singing hymns each night and preaching to my parents when I cam home. I was six. I actually told them this, “You don’t believe in Jesus sso you will be forced to get on a train that goes to hell, whilst me, who does believe in him will fast track it to heaven”
Consequently, I have no religion now, and don’t believe in organized religion of ANY sort.
It’s been mentioned here and it’s not uncommon to liken the ritual of confession to the kind of psychological help or release that you one might get from a therapist. However, don’t forget that practically the only reason Catholics need that kind of release is due to the guilt and shame imposed on them by the Church. It’s a vicious circle perpetuated from within.
When I think of Jesus and try to imagine what he would have been like, it’s never about fear, guilt and shame. I would love to have hung out with JC. (Even though I don’t believe in his dad being anyone other than a regular human being) Organized religion has warped all that, unfortunately. Especially CC, who is in my observational opinion the farthest from the original idea of Christianity.
Of course, that’s just a cynical take on confession.
