Viet Nam already kicked the PRC’s ass in the Sino-Vietnamese conflict in 1979.
The PRC will claim, of course, that they “taught Viet Nam a lesson.”
Guy
Viet Nam already kicked the PRC’s ass in the Sino-Vietnamese conflict in 1979.
The PRC will claim, of course, that they “taught Viet Nam a lesson.”
Guy
There is an excellent YouTube channel that covers the entire debacle in detail.
Oh sure, but 1979 China hardly a superpower. Just a lot of bodies. Only barely out of the Mao madness they’re sinking back into now.
China never controlled the whole of Taiwan before Japanese sovereignty, China only included the territory as officialy part of China in 1887. That is less than ten years as an official part of China and they didn’t even control the whole island.
What is China? Was the whole of the Qing empire China? Did the ROC inherit all claims of the Qing? Did the Qing even claim Taiwan? They gave what rights (not complete) they had to Taiwan to Japan by treaty.
Japan surrendered Taiwan to the US military government, as a trust territory. International law would require self determination of Taiwan’s people to decide its fait, hence today’s situation.
Towards the end of the conflict, Zhang Youxia (the one recently been purged) figured out how to use the new British artillery resolution equipment that the PLA bought, and thwarted Vietnam’s counter offensive. That’s the benefit of China opening up to the West.
Arguably those folks pursuing the “but ROC!” path ultimately end up back at the same point because the ROC back then was represented by the KMT, and they took over Taiwan!
Arguably one could go down that road even further to flip the narrative and the West Taiwan jokes aren’t jokes anymore.
It doesn’t matter what interpretation one chooses, all of them lead to the people of Taiwan choosing their own destiny. ![]()
Is the Treaty of Taipei even a valid treaty? Japan had already surrendered Taiwan to the US under the Treaty of San Francisco. Also, no self determination had occurred as required by international law of the time.
There’s a paradox in all this, if one cites the Treaty of San Francisco and the Treaty of Taipei as proof of ROC sovereignty over Taiwan. Then one needs to accept the validity of the Treaty of Shimonoseki.
If one accepts the validity of the Treaty of Shimonoseki, how did the ROC have a valid claim in the first place?
That one is easy. They didn’t.
And here US complicity with this arrangement cannot be avoided.
Guy
From ROC’s point of view, Article 4 of the Treaty of Taipei (a.k.a Treaty of Peace between ROC and Japan) deems all treaties with Japan before 1941 to be void
Article 4
It is recognised that all treaties, conventions, and agreements concluded before 9 December 1941 between Japan and China have become null and void as a consequence of the war.
If all treaties before 1941 are void then japan couldn’t have transferred Taiwan to the ROC in the Treaty of Taipei.
I would say these are both resolved by the reality that while the ROC/KMT lost the battle for the mainland, they remained in control of (“won” if you will) the island of Taiwan.
The fact that the mainland did not pursue them there at the time, nor ever actually attempt to dislodge them since, simply lends further credence and support to the agreements made by everyone else involved.
In effect the ROC/KMT took their ball (island) and went (stayed) home and everyone since has supported that position. ![]()
The fact that China grumbles about it now, decades later, is like a grown-ass adult still pissy about some playground argument in middle-school - everyone else has moved on, and they need to as well! ![]()
The Mainland’s claim is even more contentious. I’m just wondering if the Taiwanese should all be carrying US passports, at least until they exercise self determination.
Talk about going off topic.
No mention of the OP-mentioned Takaichi since about post 17??
When did they determine that they wanted all those KMT people to come over on boats?
Welcome to forumosa! ![]()
Guy
Exactly!
Exactly. I don’t know why people think Japan teaming up with Taiwan is a good thing. Mainlanders mostly like Taiwanese and see them as misguided brothers and sisters, obviously wanting to take over the island but preferring not to do so by force.
By contrast, they absolutely despise Japan with every fibre of their being, and would relish the chance to get in a hot war with them. If shit hit the fan and Taiwan teamed up with Japan, there would be absolutely no mercy.
If that happened, would Lai Ching Te bring his sons back from the USA to fight here? Or would he hightail it over to the US to join them?
Duh! If it’s a one-on-one fight with the PRC, I’m pretty sure we’ll lose. If the PRC however picks a fight with the whole neighbourhood, it’ll be very painful for them . . . very painful. The possibility of that painful outcome is exactly what will continue to save our collective bacon.
Guy
This is an insanely bad take on how the CCP operates. Look at HK and what happened to the creolized people there who actually expected rule of law and agreements to be honoured—they were utterly smashed and intimidated into silence, forced out of the country, or jailed.
Anyone who thinks that people in Taiwan would be treated any differently is a fool.
Guy