Sorry TS but in reality it isn’t the cops responsiblity to learn English - since it is not an official language of Taiwan, it’s long term residents’ responsiblity to learn some basic Chinese. (the number of native English speakers living in Taiwan is probably less that 1/2 of a percent of the total population)
As for your Canadian example, I am sure that works well in the big cities and doubt it goes very far in the smaller cities or towns. In the U.S., even in university towns with a lot of international students, there is no realistic way a police force can have someone trained in every major language that might be spoken at the universities. And before you start, yes there are a lot of students attending universities in the U.S. who can’t function in spoken English or without the help of all their study partners.
As foreigners in Taiwan, we piss and moan about the generalizations we hear about foreigner, yet you make the same type of generalizations about the cops in Taiwan - all useless, law breakers, overpaid to do a job they don’t do, etc.
As for letting the cousin offering to let your gf drive, I am sure that happens in Canada as well as the U.S. I do think it’s a very good example.
Vannyel
Where did I say in my other posts that cops here need to learn English? I do think they need to learn some cross-cultural skills, though. But since you brought it up, why shouldn’t they learn some foreign languages? Taipei is a very big and increasingly diverse city. Having a monolingual police force doesn’t serve the needs of the community. But enough of that red herring. I didn’t say the cop needed to know English.
You ask me to consider small town America or Canada? Why? Is Taipei small town Taiwan?
Generalization? And why not? Would you say, generally, that law enforcement here is efficient, fair and consistent? I’m not saying cops here are bad people; I like my gf’s cousin just fine. My point is that law enforcement here is generally not consistent or fair. Are you going to take the position that this isn’t the case? Police here enforce all traffic laws fairly? The illegal businesses blocking what little sidewalk you have are removed in a timely fashion never to return? If you are a victim of a crime, calling the police actually gets something done? I won’t even go into the IPR enforcement.
I think the officer who handled the foreigner’s case made a number of errors (likely starting with enforcing that nit-picky offense when much more serious ones were 100% likely to have been occuring in front of his nose). I know it’s fashionable on this site to call down any foreigner who has a problem with the establishment, but I’ll buck the trend by backing the foreigner. That cop was a prick.
Probably.
TS, I think you fail to understand that the cop does not need to speak through an interpreter that is not part of the Police force in Taiwan.
“No problem” means that there is no problem. Maybe there was no problem and he hadn’t finished checking his ID.
ARC’s are the property of the Government of Taiwan and therefore can be confiscated by any law enforcement officer in Taiwan for whatever reason.
It’s hard cheese, but thats the way it is.
I’d also like to hedge my bets that the Police officer had already issued tickets to car drivers doing the usual moronic things they do while driving before he met Webdoctors. Webdoctors pissed him off so he got a ticket.
Simple.
The police here are a complete dogs breakfast. But somewhere, more and more often, they are trying and I can see a change.
filing a complaint against gangsters here is likely as rare as filing a complaint against gangsters back home - that is one reason my friend didn’t file a complaint. the other reason is that he had also (admittedly) done something stupid, and felt that the consequences were enough. i’m sure that another reason was that nothing would have come of it, but in using the example that you did, i think these two items were more prominent in his mind.
and whether the cop was/is a prick should not be the issue - don’t take things from a cop. i too shake my head as i watch people do 90 km past the police station, beer in one hand, cell phone in the other, with some little kid getting a blow dry out the sunroof … but you don’t take things from a cop. i would have had a lot more sympathy for the original poster had he gone through all the bs stoically. also, cross-cultural training works two ways - the poster shoulda known that he was causing the cop to lose face, which is not a good idea - thus the “wasting time class” (detention for cops?).
since you are (were) still reading this thread webdoctors, did you ever go to the class? not being sarcastic in the least here, just wondering if they did make you sit through it. it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that they let you off after the first one, but perhaps that cop is really a nasty wanker.
[quote=“TS”]Vannyel
Where did I say in my other posts that cops here need to learn English? I do think they need to learn some cross-cultural skills, though. But since you brought it up, why shouldn’t they learn some foreign languages? Taipei is a very big and increasingly diverse city.
[/quote]
Taipei has a basically homogenous population that speaks Chinese. And it has a foreign affairs police department that can handle foreign affairs. Being stopped for jaywalking is not a foreign affaris problem.
Yes, does…the community it was designed to serve.
No but the diversity percentage of the population is about the same.
All my dealing with the police have been fair and adequate.
So first you complain they aren’t doing there job…now you complain they aren’t doing the job the way you want them to? Have you supplied the police with a list of the violations they should be working on and what priority it should be done in?
Every cop that has stopped me has been polite and tried to speak English BUT on the flip side, I have been respectful, didn’t try any I am a foreigner so why did you stop me bullshit. When the cop took my license and registration, in Chungli, I politely stood there until he radioed it in and then handed it back to me. He was doing his job and I didn’t piss and moan about how he could be elsewhere handling a felony!
xtrain_01, I went to the Taipei admin district where ppl go to pay their tickets and where the classes are held. I went there with a friend and we (actually more like he, I just sat and watched him) basically filled out a form contesting the ticket as well as stating on the form that the classes are only in Chinese and would not be very productive or beneficial to me so would appreciate if the ticket could be thrown out.
I was told they would mail me their judgement, but haven’t received a decision yet…that was done about 2 weeks after receiving the ticket… will just keep checking my mail box in da meantyme.
This has been repeated many times, but it can not be stressed enough.
Apologize to the police.
NO it does not mean that you are “wrong” or admitting that you are wrong. NO you are not going to lose face. Apologizing in most Asian cultures is a way to express respect and has much less admission of guilt tied to it than for many non-Asian cultures.
Think about it this way: Police represent little old ladies. In offering an apology, you are not giving respect to that individual, but all law-abiding members of the state–some of whom have worked very hard for their money all of whom have paid taxes all their life and just want peace and quite. What’s wrong with saying sorry even if you really don’t feel like you’ve done anything? It won’t hurt a bit if you adjust your state of mind when faced with an officer of the law.
On the flip side, the little old lady sect is much less likely to get crotchety on you if you simply show respect.
Some people get annoyed and impatient with police: “You’re detaining me!” “I’m in a hurry!” and fly off the handle by doing stupid things like fighting over an ID. Being a foreigner with poor Chinese automatically means an ID check or writing a ticket will take longer and be more tense due to communication difficulty. By apologizing from the start, the tension level starts from a lower bar on the scale.
The folks at your local trade office get paid to help you in situations like this. Just smile at the cops, pull out your cell phone and hit your trade office on “speed dial”. I have done this in the past and it definately works.
What?! What sort of a coward/troll are you? Do you honestly expect anybody who’s been in this country more than a couple of days to show respect towards local police.
I was at a junction near Taipei Main Station the other day and one of the local boys in blue is positioned there staring into space. The traffic stops and a chap and his daughter pull up on their scooter RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM, only the child is not wearing a helmet. Obviously the officer has the perfect opportunity to intervene and prevent a death or serious injury. So, just guess what he does… nothing of course, he don’t give a shit.
come on now. you should know that there’s a crime of the week here every week, chosen by some process far too secret to let you in on it. further, that is the only crime that is a crime in that particular week, so as long as you don’t commit said crime, you’ll have no problems …
obviously it was jay-walking a while back … and no helmet was not the “crime of the week” when you saw the infraction. at least it sure seems this way to me sometimes …
Define “fair”. Enforcement is random. Random may not be efficient or optimal. But, random is fair.
IPR enforcement is a bit more complicated. Not quite the same as traffic laws enforcement.
See xtrain’s post for what I mean by random.
I’m sorry if I don’t think the policing here in Taiwan is not particularly good and effective. That’s been my experience.
IPR enforcement is good example of the way rule of law is treated here. It may be more “complicated” as you put it, but I think it’s really simple. A society that allows K “L” C restaurants to open usning exactly the same color schemes as KFC restaurants doesn’t have much esteem for law and order.
[quote=“TS”]See xtrain’s post for what I mean by random.
I’m sorry if I don’t think the policing here in Taiwan is not particularly good and effective. That’s been my experience. [/quote]
Yep TS, most people only think it’s bad policing when they get busted.
So we can safely assume anybody critical of the Taiwanese police has been arrested or at least stopped by them. Just off to get some tattoos and a cheap black suit then.
actually, methinks the policing here is rather flimsy … helmet law enforcement, drinking driving (what happened to road checks?) … and i haven’t been arrested, yet.
all the same, you don’t take things from a cop … 
Oops, me thinks I added an extra negative 
. I meant to say" I’m sorry if I think the policing here in Taiwan is not particularly good or effective.
actually, methinks the policing here is rather flimsy … helmet law enforcement, drinking driving (what happened to road checks?) … and I haven’t been arrested, yet. All the same, you don’t take things from a cop … [/quote]
Perhaps it’s time to re-introdue the death penalty instead of on the sport fines?
Officer A and officer B park over a crossing.
Officer A stops traffic to let pedestrians cross.
Officer B slaps them all with a jaywalking ticket.
Officers A and B get fat hongbaos at CNY.
:bravo:
I can’t believe I just noticed this but the topic of this thread is all wrong!
Instead of Police stopped me while walking, tried taking ARC 
it should read While I was breaking the law, the police stopped me and demanded to see some identification
Oops, forget it, that would be too accurate and long…my bad…let’s go back to trashing the local cops and accusing them of all being corrupt. 
Oh Rik…
how is…
[quote]Officer A and officer B park over a crossing.
Officer A stops traffic to let pedestrians cross.
Officer B slaps them all with a jaywalking ticket.
Officers A and B get fat hongbaos at CNY. [/quote]
any worse than …
foreigner A and foreigner B move to Taiwan
foreigner A lies so foreigner B can get a job
foreigner B lies so foreigner A can get a job
foreigner A and B get fat paychecks every month???
Right. So let me get this straight: cops here are great; they do a wonderful job; enforce the laws here consistently well, especially the traffic ones; everyone, including foreigners and locals, respects the great job that they do. Right. Must be hard to see through them blinders…