Political satire

Politics International Politics
41

How would seeing the film necessarily enable one to understand the inaccuracies contained therein? Wouldn’t one need to do the research and look at sites such as your favorite… :wink: Spinsanity in order to understand?[/quote]

I reckon the reason you two are debunking this film so avidly is because it makes you uncomfortable. So, have you seen it? I often watch distasteful things, like CNN. Spinsanity is quite good, yes. But I believe it’s important for one to have actually SEEN a film they despise before protesting it. Your actions kind of remind me of those Bible thumpers who protested Life of Brian, one of the more prophetic films of our age.[/quote]

Nah… c’mon, Alien. My actions are nothing like those Bible thumpers.

Look, if I went to see the Moore film, I might well believe what I’ve seen to be accurate.

But as you say, Spinsanity is quite good. Is it unreasonable for me to accept as accurate the reports and comments on Spinsanity’s site re the Moore film? Is it unreasonable for me to disregard all of the other documented inaccuracies in Moore’s film?

Again, how would seeing his film help me in any way, when the many inaccuracies contained therein have already been documented?

42

[quote=“tigerman”]
Again, how would seeing his film help me in any way, when the many inaccuracies contained therein have already been documented?[/quote]

Well, dear, a big hug to you if we don’t meet again, but I reckon in your profession, one must have the facts, before taking on a case.

Besides, since the info you’ve received on Spinsanity is disjointed, perhaps seeing the way the film is laid out and the emotions it provokes, you might draw different conclusions. Nuff said. The Southpark spot is the deal!

Here’s the latest TOM T!

43

Actually Alien:

That one was kind of funny.

Signed

Fluffy Bunny

44

[quote=“fred smith”]Actually Alien:

That one was kind of funny.

Signed

Fluffy Bunny[/quote]

:wink: I just wonder where the lovely Lil’ Tiger is.

Ok, I’m off to the handicraft mart now and to get my fortune told. Hope nothing too horrific happens whilst I’m away.

45

I suppose the worst that will happen (for you) while you are away is that George Bush will be re-elected. Better ask how you are going to deal with four more years of being protected by a strong leader in charge of the nation and capable of fighting off challenges.

Happy Mouse

46

[quote=“tigerman”]
Again, how would seeing his film help me in any way, when the many inaccuracies contained therein have already been documented?[/quote]

And a big hug and best wishes to you too.

Well, yeah. And I don’t need to have actually seen the accident in order to understand the facts. That’s what the witnesses and police report is for… :wink:

47

Much attention was paid this weekend to Michael Moore

48

[quote=“Bob Boudelang, Angry American Patriot,”]
“Our Great President Only Stands For Decent American-Style Torture, So Stop Saying That!!”

Who is not outraged and sick over the pictures in the news these days? Not the alleged pictures of alleged torture which is not alleged torture but only alleged abuse and anyway they cut off that guy’s head, so stop saying that!

No, I mean who is not outraged and sick over the pictures of Our Great Poor Secretary of Defensive Donald Rumfilled being asked questions! In public! By Congresspeople! Who do they think they are? Who elected them to speak for the rest of us?

Do Congresspeople not support our troops, no matter how disgusting they are? Can they not focus on punishing the troops responsible instead of trying to distract us all by asking who ordered the troops in the first place?

Was it not enough that Our Great President told Congress last summer there would be no torture? Why would they not except that at face value, but go on to look at actual pictures of people being tortured just because the pictures were on television? Why were they outraged, instead of being outraged about the outrage?

[,]

But gee wiz, except for some things like that, what is wrong with him [Rumsfilled (sic)]? Next to nothing, if you don’t count him selling North Korea a nuclear reactor or giving Sodom Husane weapons of mass distraction in the first place, and I certainly don’t count that, accept as “youthful indescription” as Dr. Jeckill or Henry Hyde once said.

Let me ask you, why didn’t YOU do the Secretary of Defensive job if you thought he was doing it so wrong? It is funny to hear people criticizing him now who did not help out then. But that is the difference between us Republicans and everybody else: we are the party of personal responsibility, so it is unfair to blame us for anything. Do you not support our troops?

But nobody wants to hear our story when they are busy obsessing over photos of torture, which is really no worse than what Rush Limbaugh does for fun, or so he says. And anyway, this is what happens when you have women in the military, which is why I am outraged, but only over that part and not over what they did. Which the prisoners probally deserved.

Sadly, even on a visit to Iraq, Secretary of Defensive Rumfilled could not get a break from questions and escape into some innocent shooting and killing. Instead, even though he told the troops that “I am a survivor” they selfishly pestered the grate man with selfish questions about their own selfish safety. As if their puny lives mean anything next to him! Really!

[,]

…I am nothing if not persimmon. And I know there are many more like me who support Our Great President come hell or high water.

So I painted a sheet and hung it on my trailer that says “Our Great President Is Doing This!” I now spend the evenings standing on a box with a bag on my head and wires in my hands by the highway in front of the sign, just to show my support. And despite the scare headline it actually gets sort of peaceful there in the dark and quiet after a while. Plus Mrs. Brown Rosenfeld’s savage watchdog Cujo cannot reach my ankles when I am on the box. [/quote]

49

Fred Smith wrote:

[quote]Chomsky of course has a longstanding interest in the German concentration camps too: He contributed a preface to a book by Robert Faurisson, a French holocaust denier[/quote].

I think Chomsky’s introduction talks about freedom of speech, not denying the holocaust. He was confronted about this in the documentary “Manufacturing Consent”. It’s been a while since I saw it but he doesnt deny the holocaust but does support free speech. If you believe in free speech that means you support it even when you don’t agree with the message (paraphrasing from Chomsky’s comment)

50

So it’s ok if we start using c-h-i-n-k here, right? :unamused: Chomsky is a dick.

51

If this is true TM, then why do you always excuse yourself from opinionating on Rush? The facts demonstrating his habitual misrepresentaton of the truth are easy to find, having been frequent topics in the media, especially the print media. With websites and journals dedicated to this issue it’s as easy to find as anything on MM.

And Fred, could you post the address for spinsanity again. I’m just to lazy to scroll up the screen and see where you’ve linked. Oh, wait a second. Did you link? I forget since I didn’t even bother to read your post.

On second thought, forget it. Like you, I’d rather just continue to believe what I want even when evidence to the contrary is presented squarely in my laptop.

52

If this is true TM, then why do you always excuse yourself from opinionating on Rush? [/quote]
Spinsanity says
Rush: spinsanity.org/topics/#Limbaugh
Moore: spinsanity.org/topics/#MichaelMoore

53

Because… I have looked at the reports re MM. I haven’t looked at the reports re Rush L. Are you suggesting that I should look at and comment on reports re RL if I do the same re reports on MM? Why?

Perhaps if there was a thread in which some people defended what Rush says as gospel truth, I might.

Anyway, is Rush a big issue now, like MM? I don’t think so. I barely ever see news on Rush… I mean, I know he was arrested for drug use recently… but MM is on the cover of every news sheet printed now.

54

[quote=“fred smith”]But then again, I doubt that today

55

Of course Limbaugh is a big issue right now, and for at least two reasons:

One, exacly like Moore, he acts as the large part of a funnel, accumulating those members of the hoi polloi who’ve yet to make up their minds on a given issue and, ultimately, consistently delivering their votes to the political party for which he works (for Limbaugh, it’s the Republicans). This has always been Limbaugh’s sole function in the GOP, and why he’s held in good stead by many Republican elites. He delivers the votes of the undecided, rallies the base, and his radio show is designed to get both of them to stick around.

Two, Limbaugh’s comments re: Iraq and the recent Abu Ghraib prison scandal constitute another reason why many Americans find his commentary as inflammatory as anything Michael Moore has ever said:

[quote=“Media Matters”]CALLER: It was like a college fraternity prank that stacked up naked men –

LIMBAUGH: Exactly. Exactly my point! This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation and we’re going to ruin people’s lives over it and we’re going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them because they had a good time. [color=red][i]You know, these people are being fired at every day. I’m talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You ever heard of need to blow some steam off?[/color][/i]

mediamatters.org/items/200405050003[/quote]

56

[quote=“flike”]Of course Limbaugh is a big issue right now, and for at least two reasons:

One, exacly like Moore, he acts as the large part of a funnel, accumulating those members of the hoi polloi who’ve yet to make up their minds on a given issue and, ultimately, consistently delivering their votes to the political party for which he works (for Limbaugh, it’s the Republicans). This has always been Limbaugh’s sole function in the GOP, and why he’s held in good stead by many Republican elites. He delivers the votes of the undecided, rallies the base, and his radio show is designed to get both of them to stick around.

Two, Limbaugh’s comments re: Iraq and the recent Abu Ghraib prison scandal constitute another reason why many Americans find his commentary as inflammatory as anything Michael Moore has ever said:

[quote=“Media Matters”]CALLER: It was like a college fraternity prank that stacked up naked men –

LIMBAUGH: Exactly. Exactly my point! This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation and we’re going to ruin people’s lives over it and we’re going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them because they had a good time. [color=red][i]You know, these people are being fired at every day. I’m talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You ever heard of need to blow some steam off?[/color][/i]

mediamatters.org/items/200405050003[/quote][/quote]

OK. I thought RL was knocked down by his arrest.

Re the above quote. Did he say that knowing of the photos that came out later, i.e., the ones showing torture? Or did he make that statement at the very beginning when we didn’t yet know the extent and type of abuse that occurred?

Not that I agree with his statement in either case, but I do think there is a big difference depending upon what he knew.

57

[quote=“Media Matters”]CALLER: It was like a college fraternity prank that stacked up naked men –

LIMBAUGH: Exactly. Exactly my point! This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation and we’re going to ruin people’s lives over it and we’re going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them because they had a good time. [color=red][i]You know, these people are being fired at every day. I’m talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You ever heard of need to blow some steam off?[/color][/i]

mediamatters.org/items/200405050003[/quote]

[quote=“tigerman”]Re the above quote. Did he say that knowing of the photos that came out later, i.e., the ones showing torture? Or did he make that statement at the very beginning when we didn’t yet know the extent and type of abuse that occurred?

Not that I agree with his statement in either case, but I do think there is a big difference depending upon what he knew.[/quote]

I certainly can’t say when Limbaugh became aware of the scope, but it was certainly easy enough to see that the abuse is likely systemic. (I use the present tense, “is likely systemic,” and not “was likely…” because, as far as I know, Gen. Miller is now in charge of Iraqi “POWs”. Since the Geneva conventions do not yet apply to Miller’s Gitmo and there seems to be considerable confusion in the DoD over whether they apply in Iraq, and to whom, then I see no reason to assume, yet, that prisons in Iraq are improved with Miller in charge).

If I recall, among the first photos was the one showing the shrouded Iraqi standing on an oil box with wires extending from his limbs. That’s torture in my book. If you claim that Limbaugh’s ignorance exculpates him morally from his comments, then I don’t see how he could have known this first photo was not torture.

Please explain the difference, because I don’t see how it’s germane.

58


Courtesy of Tom Toles at The Washington Post

59

[quote=“tigerman”]Re the above quote. Did he say that knowing of the photos that came out later, i.e., the ones showing torture? Or did he make that statement at the very beginning when we didn’t yet know the extent and type of abuse that occurred?

Not that I agree with his statement in either case, but I do think there is a big difference depending upon what he knew.[/quote]

Sorry it has taken me so long to get to this reply…

I don’t know. The original news and pics, per my knowledge, were of detainees forming naked pyramids. If that is all RL saw or read about when he made his statement, then it isn’t at all likely that he knew or should have known that there was anything systemic regarding the abuse.

That’s all I’m saying, and I think that is an important point.

I agree, this is a type of torture. But even torture varies in degrees of severity. It is true, unfortunately, that some students have died from hazing at university fraternities over the years. I doubt that the students administering the hazing believed that they were torturing their pledges…

So, RL’s comments, if made early when the story was just breaking, would not, IMO, be as bad as if they were made after the full scope of the abuse had been revealed.

I mean, if I only knew that a detainee was forced to wear his underwear on his head and didn’t know about the other forms of abuse that occurred, I might make a similar statement (as the one RL made).

60

A label from a laptop bag that is made by a small American company for overseas customers:

Here is the translation from the French:
Wash with warm water.
Use mild soap.
Dry flat.
Do not use bleach.
Do not dry in the dryer.
Do not iron.
We are sorry that our President is an idiot.
We did not vote for him.