[[ -- Poll added! -- ]] Criticism of government over Morakot

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

Should President Ma Ying-jeou (Mark) step down (Xia tai) over Morakot ineptitude?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Depends

0 voters

I came to Forumosa expecting to find the debate over this already raging. Yes, I’m mourning the victims and praying for the still missing but alive, but my overwhelming feeling is one of rage. Rage toward Ma Ying-jeou, who has confirmed to me my long niggling suspicions that he is simply an egotistical idiot with good fashion sense.

Fact: By late Saturday it was on the local news that incredible amounts of rain had fallen in several locations all across the south. On Sunday afternoon I - little old me - was saying they should declare an emergency and that this would soon be front-page news globally, firstly because of that hotel falling into the river, and secondly because there was gonna be a lot of landslide trouble. Too bad I’m not President.

As of now, a state of emergency has still not been declared. If it had been, a clear command and control structure could have been set up to coordinate efficient relief and response operations. But the military has only gotten involved in what appears to be an ad hoc fashion. The executive branch of the government, the obvious conduit between local governments and the armed forces, chose as its first response to the obvious (or unforeseen if you’re on Ma’s team) disaster was to declare that local governments should handle the relief work with the central government helping where needed.

This is not the time for decentralization, DUDE! (That’s the problem. He ain’t a dude.)

Now the international spotlight has arrived just as I predicted it would several days ago. Ma still looks like he hasn’t figured out the enormity of it all. The live shots on my TV still show relief being conducted in a very ad hoc fashion. The military has become much more involved after an unbelievable few hundred troops were committed on Sunday, but folks are still complainin’ that there must be more helicopters than this in that there military.

Featured prominently on Google News are these articles highlighting President Ma’s ineptness:

Taiwanese hauled to safety across raging river
By PETER ENAV (AP) – 1 hour ago
SINFA, Taiwan — Terrified survivors of Typhoon Morakot were pulled to safety along cables slung across a raging river, five days after dozens of their fellow villagers died in flash floods, [color=#008040]as criticism mounted Thursday over Taiwan’s response to the disaster[/color].

Pressure mounts on Taiwan govt over mudslide rescues
By Ralph Jennings
CISHAN, Taiwan, Aug 13 (Reuters) - [color=#00BF40]Pressure mounted on Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou [/color]on Thursday to speed up operations to rescue hundreds of residents of remote mountainous villages buried or stranded in the aftermath of typhoon Morakot.

Taiwan deploys extra troops, anger over rescue grows
By Ben Yeh (AFP) – 4 hours ago
LIUKUEI, Taiwan — Taiwan Thursday deployed thousands of extra troops as it [color=#008040]faced growing public anger [/color]and pressure to rescue people trapped by deadly landslides triggered by Typhoon Morakot.

More Troops For Typhoon Rescue As Anger Grows
(SKY) 10:04am UK, Thursday August 13, 2009
Thousands more troops have been deployed to help the rescue operation after Typhoon Morakot, as Taiwan’s government faces [color=#008040]increasing pressure over its handling of the disaster[/color].

I think it’s quite shameful. I’ll bet serious money that Ma will calmly let Premier Liu take the fall for him. He’ll manage to get everyone to forget about the fact that it was the absence of the military and a military-like structure that was the problem. Oh, you had a disaster bureaucracy already drawn up and you followed it. Well, at what point did you first begin to question its effectiveness and think maybe the best thing to do would be to declare a disaster, put the army in charge and let people get things done efficiently? Or maybe it’s just that the army isn’t capable of such effort anymore. I sure pray that isn’t the case.

For about 70% of a full critique, just visit the Taipei Times website. But that is not my main source of opinion. I just watch the local news on TV. And now, I can just read the international press.

2

It is absolutely shameful. Ma’s aloof, cold, legalistic mannerisms just fill me with a chill that won’t go away. It’s on par with Lien Chan’s tour of disaster relief areas during the 921 earthquake. I’ll never forget seeing that prick rush by crying kneeling victims and tossing his hand in the air as they tried to reach out and touch him.

I’ll also never forget Wen Jia Bao last year crying with earthquake victims in Sichuan, holding hands with people and listening for as long as anyone wanted to talk to him. LISTENING. The fucking authoritarian leaders of China showing more humanity than the Harvard Educated Ma. Fuck him. Even blue supporters in Taipei have seen through this little prince.

I was always of two minds. Two narratives. But the one you say above is the one that is true. This crisis has brought out the true character of this simpering pasty faced little provincial.

Shameful.

3

I said it and then read it in a Taipei Times editorial. Morakot is Ma’s Katrina. Can you really imagine a similar level of disorganization if Chen were still president and eith Su Tseng-chang or Hsieh Chang-ting (sp?) were still premier? :doh:

Check out this photo from the front page of Monday’s China Post. Notice how the caption tries to make it look good. Those “assistants” are mostly candidates in the upcoming elections.


Premier Liu Chao-shiuan, in center wearing a baseball cap, is seen aboard an army dinghy on his way to Linpien. Accompanied by assistants, the premier paid a whirlwind visit yesterday to the town in Pingtung County hit by the worst floods in 50 years. The dinghy was crowded and laden with relief goods. (CNA)

Meanwhile, only 400 soldiers had been dispatched, the central government had said it’s up to the locals, and people were still clawing their way out of engulfed villages as rain continued to fall.

4

I’d like to know why these discrepancies exist:

From Reuters story:

From today’s Taipei Times:

and

How many helicopters?

And I want to know if a platoon of soldiers couldn’t work it’s way along ridgelines to reach the more remote villages and evacuate within four days. We keep hearing about the weather keeping chopper flights to a minimum, but it’s been four days since the scale of the disaster became totally obvious to anyone, and there are still several locations where the status of potential survivors is unknown.

5

What the fuck is wrong with Ma? He busted his arse over the Chinese earthquake but hasn’t done nearly as much to get donations in for a natural disaster in his own country! That plus the nasty little comments he’s been throwing at people asking why he hasn’t been around and the fact the government initially acted like a bunch of arrogant twats in refusing to accept foreign aid really takes the biscuit.

If Ma and the KMT don’t suffer because of this in the upcoming elections it’s because the public would be far, far too forgiving.

6

Quite right!

President Ma is in for heavy criticism for not utilizing his ‘special powers’ to control the weather in this crisis.
He certainly missed a magnificent photo-op…Him standing on a hillside…arms outstretched…Calming the Winds…Halting the Rains…sadly…he missed it…

He should have been aware that, following the well-used maxim, his detractors and political opponents would…“Never Let a Crisis go Un-Used!”

And his obvious lack of concern over the destruction of precious natives peoples artifacts of life by the NAS Search & Rescue Helicopter crashing into those ropes they have strung on the trees. The loss of 3 lives and a helicopter pales in significance to the disturbance of such a vital supply transport method as those ropes in the trees.
The mere fact that Civil & Military helicopters were attempting to fly in such weather conditions alone is just more evidence of President Mas’ lack of care about anything other than his allegiance to…well…we know who!
Just more evidence of where Mas’ true concerns lay.

As a side note:
The Municipal water supply returned to the Cowboy household yesterday at approximately 1030 hrs.
Bathing and laundry has resumed.

7

This is an obvious example both of how incompetant Ma is and how out of touch he is with anything outside of Taipei.

A State of Emergency should have been declared late Saturday or early Sunday at the latest. It was already becoming clear by then what the scope of the disaster would going to be like. When I woke up Sunday morning and saw that nearly 2.5 meters of rain had already fallen at Sandimen and more than 2 meters at multiple other places in the center and south, it was obvious that this was going to be a disaster of incredible proportions. Sadly, I was proven right.

Ma’s words AND deeds are deplorable. Taitung, a county that is safely blue - so much so that their KMT magistrate could be elected despite being arguably the worst county-head in the country, may be in danger of slipping out of KMT hands if what friends of mine down there tell me is anything even close to accurate.

8

What really has astonished me is the amount of criticism in the foreign media. It is rare for them not to repeat the “Ma is great” line. They may not be right on the spot about some of it, but I guess having correspondents -CNN, AlJazeera, BBC- on the ground makes a difference. They listen to the people’s indignation, and if taht gets across language, political and cultural barries, even if misunderstood, I’d say it’s something. It’s a lot better than towing the line.

As to the disparitries, well, it is expected. I was trying to check figures of damages, deaths, etc… It is really hard. Even donations, tehre are several versions in the local media.

From what I saw on TV, there were 6000 troops initially, then yesterday they added 4000 more. Foreign media is reporting 17 thousand -maybe they will add more. 32 thousand? Mmm, don’t think so. Not yet, AFAIK.

By the way, the First Lady did a brief tour of the shelters, and it was completely different. TV crews made a big bruhaha of her wearing rain boots, though. :doh:

Then there was a certain G’ment official who stopped rescue efforts and got the tired soldiers waiting in the sun 40 minutes for a proper reception…

9

Its a typical TTC (Taiwanese Total Clusterfuck). It matters not a jot whether the chief pointy-head of the moment is an arrogant disengaged pretty-boy or a greasy shortarsed “manodapeeple” grunting at them in dialect and possibly even shedding a tear or two for the benefit of TVBS watchers, the outcome was ALWAYS going to be the same. This is being played strictly according to the book and is not an administration thing so much as a Taiwanese thing.
I can’t believe people are now bleating about it in these terms – oh, wait, I can – this IS the Taiwanese Politics forum. :laughing:
I especially like the bit in which local governments were told to compile a list of equipment they’d like and one bunch of clowns requested those helicopters – you know – the ones that haven’t actually been invented yet. TTC. Business as usual, poor bastards.

10

The fury at Ma and the desperate desire for assistance have led many Taiwanese to contact all the foreign media outlets they can find, in order to get the word out.

11

I’m afraid that I tend to agree with Sandman. I don’t think it would really make that much difference who was president. The Taiwanese government is extremely poor at dealing with situations where immediate response and triage is required. At the same time, the response of the Taiwanese people in making donations of cash and supplies has been inspiring.

That said, I agree that Ma has handled this poorly and will pay a heavy political price. Both the Taiwanese people and the international media are getting a much more realistic look at Ma. Not too many people like what they see.

12

No need to be afraid. Don’t worry your pretty little head, Feiren. That green won’t come off in the wash. You’re quite safe. :laughing:

13

At the moment, I can afford to be magnanimous.

14

Not quite. The problem was the magnitude of the natural disaster and the impenetrability of the terrain in which it wreaked its most damaging effects.

A score of tough, mountain-savvy Aboriginal men can carry out search and rescue work far more effectively than a hundred times that number of Taiwan’s soldier-boys – and without becoming a part of the problem themselves.

Likewise small teams of trained and seasoned disaster response personnel.

Leaving it as far as possible to the experts has got to be the best policy in such circumstances as these. Sending any number of soldier-boys marching off into that treacherous terrain is as likely to create more problems as to deliver any benefit – and to raise another hue and cry from their mummies and daddies when they’re brought back from the mountains in body-bags.

15

God! Can you even BEGIN to imagine! "Sir! Sir! SIR! SIIIIIR! I’ve a piece of mud on my BOOOOOOOT, sir! I wanna go home! My glasses are wet! Do you KNOW who my father is? :roflmao:

16

Yes, well, foreign rescue teams were not welcome either. :unamused:

17

All part of the TTC. See? Now they can call for assistance, allowing the others to bleat about it being too late, and the rigmarole of finger-pointing and blame-appropriation can continue on its predictable and not-so-merry way. Business as usual.

18

Yes, this was quite interesting. An article in yesterday’s China Times quoted Taiwanese rescue experts as saying that foreign rescue teams would be of limited value.

Lv Zheng-zong of the Chunghwa Search and Rescue Team said that:

Lv also said that foreign rescue teams are more familiar with earthquakes. They have less experience with rockslides, mudslides, and shale slides. And the military was making enough helicopter sorties.

The Chunghwa Search and Rescue Team, founded in 1981, has more than 7000 members and has done missions in the Philippines, South East Asia, and El Salvador.

Wu Cheng-chang of Taiwan International Rescue said that after 72 hours had passed, all international rescuers could could was look for bodies. He did say that it would be very helpful if international rescue groups could send their search dogs.

I think there’s probably some immediate truth in what they are saying. Taiwan’s rescue organizations need to be on the ground rescuing people. They don’t have the time or the resources to deal with a bunch of foreigners who don’t speak the language and don’t know how to do anything in Taiwan for themselves.

At the same time though, I strongly suspect they could be better prepared. They could recruit foreign and Taiwanese volunteers who speak English and can liase with foreign groups in the event of an emergency. Those volunteers could also support the foreign rescue teams in the field. I’m sure that a number of Forumosans including myself would have been capable and happy to help.

It’s a great example of the costs of Taiwan’s long isolation from the international community. Taiwan has lots of effective NGOs. Both of the groups mentioned here do important work. But they could do it better if they knew how and when to ask for help.

19

Oooh! That’s a big mistake! Ma had EVERY opportunity to completely disregard the advice of the experts and send in the cavalry so that the others could later decry his draconian authoritarian style! What a wasted opportunity! The man’s a fool!

20

I’ve interviewed rescue workers and yes they tend to have a “Taiwan is special” attitude, and only we are qualified, despite the fact that most of their advanced training, especially in medicine, is all western based. In any case, Feiren is quoting one man, who as head of a large organization has to be careful what he says.

As for translators/liasons for international rescue teams I know foreigners who acted in this roll during 921.