I’ve been working for a Taiwanese company as a Project Manager for about 2 years now. It’s not a huge company, and I’m 1 of the 2 foreigners working here. I am basically the guy in charge of managing all of our projects with our customers in the US. I handle all direct communication with the customers and communicate with our factory daily about any issues that come up.
My starting salary was 65k and now I’m up to around 70k. My question is, is my current salary reasonable for a foreigner doing this kind of work in Taiwan? (I’m living in Taipei, and working in Neihu btw).
I suppose some other relevant info would be that I have a Bachelor’s in Mechanical Engineering (which is needed for the job) from a good university in the US, and I had no relevant experience before taking this job (after graduating I travelled for a bit and then taught English for 1 year in Taiwan).
The reason I’m asking about this is because we’ve been looking to hire another project manager with an engineering degree, but most candidates lose interest when we tell them the starting salary range is 60k – 70k.
Unfortunately, I think that sounds about right. I don’t work in the industry though. You’ve been getting raises which are pretty decent by Taiwan standards.
The real question is whether you are truly indispensable in eyes of the company. You may be if you are handling all the US clients and they are an important part of the business. If so, you may be able to demand higher pay. Say NT90k. To get this, you will need to be ready to have a show down with them where you tell them that they increase your salary or you are going to leave. Only a credible threat will work. The way I see Taiwanese people do this is line up a new job and then present their demands on a take-it or leave-it basis.
You should also keep in mind that your Taiwanese coworkers will find about any raise and will bitterly resent if they think you are getting more pay but doing the same work.
[quote=“Feiren”]Unfortunately, I think that sounds about right. I don’t work in the industry though. You’ve been getting raises which are pretty decent by Taiwan standards.
The real question is whether you are truly indispensable in eyes of the company. You may be if you are handling all the US clients and they are an important part of the business. If so, you may be able to demand higher pay. Say NT90k. To get this, you will need to be ready to have a show down with them where you tell them that they increase your salary or you are going to leave. Only a credible threat will work. The way I see Taiwanese people do this is line up a new job and then present their demands on a take-it or leave-it basis.
You should also keep in mind that your Taiwanese coworkers will find about any raise and will bitterly resent if they think you are getting more pay but doing the same work.[/quote]
I do feel that I’m pretty indispensable to the company. Our US business is already a sizable chunk of our revenue, and something that the company would like to focus on developing further. If I were to disappear suddenly, our US business would definitely slow down, as it would take a long time to hire someone new and get them up to speed on all of our projects (especially if I wasn’t around to train them).
That being said though, I also don’t like the idea of having a big showdown and threatening to leave if I don’t get a 20k raise. My company and boss have been really good to me in other ways, such as letting me take time after business trips to the US to visit home for a week or 2 before coming back to Taiwan (and not taking it out of my allotted vacation time) or letting me use the company car whenever I want. After this, I’d feel like too much of an asshole if I threatened to leave without a much higher raise.
Is it unusual in Taiwanese companies to just ask for a better raise, and use your added value to the company as justification? (i.e. I’ve worked for the company for 2 years and have helped us win X number of projects, which have earned us Y NT dollars, so I think I deserve a raise of Z)
I don’t think there is anything unusual about this and it may be worth a try since your employer seems reasonably enlightened. But I don’t think you will get a raise this way or if you do, it will be a small symbolic one. Strategically, this is a good way to put them on notice that you think you are worth more and set the stage for a later showdown if you decide to go that route.
From your description of the situation, I would be willing to bet good money that they will not see you as indispensable and not give you the raise.
Salary raises are difficult to negotiate due to the aforementioned reasons. Are you on any sort of bonus scheme? That’s generally where pay increases tend to work out and you don’t have to go in with guns blazing to ask for a 20% pay raise. If you like the company and can see yourself there long term, aim for a bonus or even shares. That shows to management that you’re committed to the future of the company since your compensation would be tied to its success.
How about a positive slant? Next time you snag a major project, you ask for a raise, and you get it in say NT$5,000 increments? Or something like that?
very likely you will have to change jobs to get significant wage increase. Just the way it works. every time I’ve changed jobs I’ve got between 20% to 50% raise. Forget about the wishful thinking of bonuses etc. They will just string you along for a few bucks here and there. In the next job get a better salary AND bonuses ensured. I’ve tried negotiating with Taiwanese HR in big corporations, they are not very flexible because of the low salary scales for other workers. If they give you a raise they are afraid other senior managers will find out. You can see by their behavior they’d rather give you more time off than give you more money. Maybe get one more year experience and in this year start your new job search, think about leaving taiwan if wanting the big bucks.
In my current job I got a 50% increase over last job but this year I got a 3% rate of inflation increase. even if I take on extra responsibility they might give me 5-10% raise tops. I’m okay with this because I know with this name on my CV it adds value if I need to trade up again. You got to negotiate hard and find a company willing to pay you what you are worth from day 1. The level of salary is set more by local conditions and the going rate than what you are worth. Remember that. what you are worth is set by local salary levels mostly unless you can join the Asian team or corporate HQ. That’s why if you went to the U.S. you might get 100,000 usd a year, here you might get 20,000 to 30,000 usd a year. expecting them to raise your salary later…usually doesn’t really work. if you really concerned about pay, think seriously about widening your job search outside of Taiwan.
I have a British colleague who is based in thr US. He said he makes twice what his mates in the UK make now. why? he moved to Singapore…bump in salary. he moved to US…bump in salary. it is not his performance, rather his flexibility and moving to higher base salary countries that made the difference!
Don’t feel bad about moving on, if they can’t step up with the pay move on. taking 10% raise on 60k or 70k is not really going to change your standard of living.
BTW, as soon as you mention you will leave, most companies will go into self protection mode (not only Taiwanese companies). You are very likely to lose your job in that situation so you should have something lined up before pulling that.
As I’ve said many many times before, earning 70k puts you in the top 5% of salary-earners nationwide. By Taiwanese standards, that’s a great wage, but it makes perfect sense why it wouldn’t be enough to entice someone from overseas.
I agree with a lot of what hh says, especially about the politics part. Salary discussions are difficult because if anyone in senior management finds out that you got a bump, it opens the door for others to go to the boss to talk about the same thing. From a CEO/executive management perspective, two years is still fairly early to get on a bonus plan. You’re just now starting to pull your weight in the company and none of us are as valuable or irreplaceable as we think.
From my experience, these types of conversations depend on your relationship with the final decision maker. If you’re talking to an HR person they tend to go by the book. (They have less power to negotiate with you anyway.) If you’re talking directly to the boss then it’s easier to get a feeling of what your value really is. You frame it like “I’ve been at the company for the past 2 years, I like my job, I like our team, and I’ve been thinking about what’s in store for the next 3 years.” If the boss is enlightened he’ll/she’ll share their expectations and vision for you in the company. That’s when you find an opening to talk about the potential for any bonus or profit-sharing scheme. This tends to work better than going in with a figure in your head. It’s a softer tactic that lets them make the first move and then you decide the next.
I’d suggest an approach like this to see if there’s any “wiggle room” in your compensation package. If not, then I’d definitely recommend waiting another year (so you have 3 years under your belt) before looking for a new job. That’s when you’ll have to put all your chips on the table to see if your current company can match the new offer. I’ve never done this before but people have told me that companies will match an offer…but only once. And it’s better if it’s in an unrelated field. If you’re known for looking in a competitor’s backyard for greener grass, it’s likely they’ll show you the door without even making an offer.
[quote=“backpacker24”]I’ve been working for a Taiwanese company as a Project Manager for about 2 years now. It’s not a huge company, and I’m 1 of the 2 foreigners working here. I am basically the guy in charge of managing all of our projects with our customers in the US. I handle all direct communication with the customers and communicate with our factory daily about any issues that come up.
My starting salary was 65k and now I’m up to around 70k. My question is, is my current salary reasonable for a foreigner doing this kind of work in Taiwan? (I’m living in Taipei, and working in Neihu btw).
I suppose some other relevant info would be that I have a Bachelor’s in Mechanical Engineering (which is needed for the job) from a good university in the US, and I had no relevant experience before taking this job (after graduating I travelled for a bit and then taught English for 1 year in Taiwan).
The reason I’m asking about this is because we’ve been looking to hire another project manager with an engineering degree, but most candidates lose interest when we tell them the starting salary range is 60k – 70k.[/quote]
The fastest way to increase your salary is actually to learn Mandarin and mingle with the management, or else in my humble opinion, your future is Taiwan has reached its glass ceiling already.