Public schools don’t offer English as an elective?

Taiwan Parenting
1

So we decided to try putting our g1st grader in a public school.

We live in a good neighborhood and our friends were telling us that the public school where we live was pretty good.

So why not give it a shot?

Well it turns out that the school offers elective languages such as Amis and other tribal ones as well as Thai, Vietnamese, Khmer….but no English.

What’s up with that?

I’m all for helping LEGAL immigrant families (believe it or not) and even though only 11,000 half Thai families live in taiwan their language is offered in grade one.

Heck even Amis is spoken by what…100,000 people?

English as a mother tongue is spoken by roughly 22,000 people with around 200,000 westerners.

So why not have English as an elective for grade 1 kids who wish to keep their language?

Now don’t get me wrong y’all know my take that I think everyone should speak English (with the American variety) to some extent I find it surprising that it is not offered to children when other languages like Vietnamese is.

Needless to say we decided to take her out of the public school and put her in a private one…just a pity I think that westerners are to be discriminated in this manner by the public school system.

I do live in an area with many Americans too.

2

They probably think there are already plenty of private schools that teach in English. I think a new one opened in Kaohsiung recently, but the name escapes me

3

This misses the point. There are parents whose native tongue is English and they are not provided with the same attention as parents whose native tongue happens to be, say, Cambodian…even though there are 530 registered Cambodians in Taiwan ROC.

I live in an area where foreign families come live in the same building I do and their kids go to public schools. Their kids don’t get the same option to choose English as an elective.

Yes English is taught as a tool the same way math is but this is a disservice to English speaking families who have their kids go to public schools.

4

Well, Public school in Taiwan for little kids is fine IMO, but yeah, making sure your kiddo learns to read and write English is going to take some extra work.

You live in and amongst English speakers, so join the tribe and let him/her play with the other kids.

Build up the vocabulary with good parenting, bedtime stores, watching movies complaining about baseball— etc.

Also, picking up Vietnamese? That’s a sick combination — nothing wrong with that.

Some of the higher level Hess classes are /were very good. Shoot for those in a few years . :+1:

5

Yes we are having to find ways around it and we are…my point is that I am disappointed that Taiwans public schools don’t offer English as an elective but offer other languages like Thai or Burmese as part of their new immigrant program.

There are 23,000 English nation speaking passport holders.

You could argue that those numbers aren’t as much as say Indonesian that have around 300,000 people but then you have Khmer and they have around 6000 people in taiwan.

Those same arguments can be made for native speakers of Vietnamese or Thai, right?

6

Ah, if you want to vent and the unfairness of it all I’m out. Good luck .

Me? I’d be more focused on taking advantage of what is offered in the school— as rudimentary as it will surely be in the first grade— than well, this.

Again, good luck. :+1:

7

I get it life is unfair. It was a surprise and yes we have taken our kid out and have put her in a private bilingual school for now.

8

I will also say that if you speak to your kid at home in English, mostly will way better what they get many (not all) schools that have some English classes at the primary (and even Uni level). I was at a friends house with their family (A Taiwanese family, but kids was in the states for first few years of school), young kids telling me the teachers English sucks (father said his two kids could teach the teacher haha..)

9

I’d be surprised if a private ‘bilingual’ school is better than a public school. They are usually crap.

10

Yea you’re right. They are the best compromise for now to have the kids still immersed in English while learning mandarin fully

11

I thought public schools were supposed to be “bilingual” now. Or is that just Taipei? I see schools advertising that they’re bilingual all over my neighborhood.

12

Not sure why people feel discriminated against everywhere these days - not everything that goes against your wishes is automatically discrimination…
How about starting a thread about restaurant discrimination in Taiwan because so much rice and not enough burgers…? Really discriminating against Americans! :whistle:

If you’re an American, I would assume that English lessons from a public school in Taiwan would be quite useless to your children anyway because their level with an English-speaking parent should be already much more advanced than what’s being taught.

13

First off you’ve just proven my point. Or can Americans not feel discrimination or be discriminated against because…you know…Americans?

Secondly not all English speakers in Taiwan ROC are American. I’m sure Australian kids or those of England would have felt the same way.

Thirdly if you say it is not discrimination then how come English is not offered to Western Taiwan children while languages like Khmer is when there are only 500 Cambodians in Taiwan?

And yes I do personally expect more given the fact that it is my tax dollars that go towards the protection and safety of this island but don’t get me started…I’m waiting for the day any other country would risk training the locals at the risk of angering Beijing…

14

Americans can be discriminated against for sure! And plenty of instances where this happens.

This is not one of those situations, though…

Is it discrimination if American schools don’t teach all languages of the world in their primary schools…?

Yeah sure, some “woke” people will demand that you teach Spanish, Chinese, German, Italian, … in American schools to cater to immigrants from those countries. Maybe you shouldn’t even expect children in the US to speak English at all because of their parents citizenship… And if you do expect them to speak English in school that’s discrimination and you’re a racist or worse…

Same in Taiwan: If you’re an immigrant, you need to adapt to the local system and accept that your children will be taught in Chinese primarily. If you’re an expat, then you better shell out some sweet dollars for that international school…

Oh, so we’re back at Taiwan being deep in America’s debt because of “protection” (when in reality the US frequently overcharges Taiwan for weapons that arrive much behind schedule)…

And even if that’s the case, I don’t see why Taiwan would be required to feed all Americans on this island with a silver spoon just because of this. Taiwan’s not for sale - neither to China nor to the US…

I wouldn’t assume that the schools teach this solely because of children with Cambodian roots but rather because there is some interest / demand from parents to let their children learn those languages.

Would your feelings be hurt less if schools stopped teaching Khmer…?

Personally, I still agree with your point that it would absolutely make sense for public schools to teach English. But not because of some expat’s children - but simply because English is the de facto world language and mastering it tremendously increases opportunities for them.

So yes, I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous that they’re teaching Khmer but not English.

But I don’t agree with your framing at all that this is an instance of discriminating against Americans. It’s rather an example of a misguided policy that’s affecting all pupils at that school…

15

Are we sure this isn’t just because English is a core, required subject? It certainly was when my kid was in public elementary school.

Then again, I’m not sure what use an elective would be anyway, since it would surely be far below your kid’s existing level.

16

To make sure it’s understood - those languages were offered as electives. English was not offered as an elective despite there being more English native speakers than some of the other ones on the list.

Why does an “expat” have to “shell out some sweet dollars” to get the same treatment as someone from Thailand? How is that not favoring one over the other?

Don’t get me going…but the answer is “yes”. The US overcharges? No one else will dare sell to Taiwan or support them. Taiwan should be paying more!

And yes Taiwan ROC is responsible for the fact that the US could be getting a sweeter deal with the PRC if they gave up Taiwan.

Let’s remember that George Marshall (the guy who made the Marshall plan for Europe) went to the ROC and wanted to make a same deal.

The ROC turned him down after WW2. The PRC would not have been where it is today had the KMT just worked with the Americans back in the day the way the Europeans and Japan did.

I’ll say it again. The government that currently runs Taiwan owes America a lot from support vs the Japanese to donations throughout their occupation of China despite the corruption and on and on…

But I digress…

Why? Because they are the children of “expats?” Not all English natives here are “expats” with packages. Many English teachers here send their kids to public schools and are hardly on “expat packages.” Why can’t their kids get the same treatment as kids who happen to come from Vietnames or Thai backgrounds?

Yes English is the language of opportunity for many…but for native English speakers…it is their language of culture and heritage. They deserve the same esteem and respect as others and just because the world has decided to adopt their language doesn’t make it less so.

17

I don’t see how a higher number of English speakers should correlate with English being offered as an elective language course…? I’d rather argue for the contrary: If many people already speak English, there’s less need for an elective (introductory) course.

You’d be needing an advanced course. Are the other electives advanced enough that native speakers would actually benefit from them…? Or are they more targeted for beginners, i.e. non-natives…?

English should become a mandatory subject at some point (Grade 3) - I don’t think that holds true for Thai. So English already gets a much better treatment in that regard.

Why don’t they just offer English from grade 1, too, then? I don’t know - and again, I agree that it would perfectly make sense!

But there’s no point in arguing “They offer language X, they also have to offer language Y - everything else is discrimination!”…

Regarding the dollars: If you don’t agree with the local school curriculum, you need to pay to get a different one. But don’t start crying discrimination because of this…

I feel like I’m starting to understand what people mean in the US when they complain about too many “snowflakes” today…

It’s almost funny when Americans point towards history to derive some sort of “generational debt” towards them - while at the same time disregarding any kind of colonial past in the US because it’s “history”…

I also doubt that any of your tax dollars personally contributed to the Marshall plans or similar… So not sure how you derive some personal expectation towards you from this…

How about Japanese? Italians? Germans? French? Are they all being discriminated against in your eyes…?

Maybe consider that the selection of languages doesn’t primarily depend on the background of the pupils… And English already being offered as a required subject later on already gives it a very prominent role that no other language is enjoying…

And again - I don’t see the US (or any other country in the world) offering language courses to all immigrants in their own language!

Would you support that schools in the US were required by law to offer Spanish courses from Grade 1?

I don’t think an immigrant / expat should expect their host country to take responsibility for teaching their children about their cultural heritage specifically. That’s primarily the responsibility of their parents…

Otherwise, you’ll soon be complaining that the public schools are not teaching enough about American history (or worse: teaching it in a way you don’t agree!)… :man_shrugging:

18

Like that Trump won the war— all the wars— bigly? No one had a chance — they were a disgrace. Now they won’t leggo our eggos! It’s a disaster. :tangerine:

19

Another woke cry me a river thread about some people demanding special treatment

20

I think it’s a fair point the OP is making, but basically unrealistic economically.

For me the best way is to focus on English at home and then take advantage of the Chinese taught in public schools. Naturally acquired English is so much better than the academically taught style you get otherwise. Private ‘bilingual schools’ rarely work, but he’ll find out after the first semester, so it won’t be a major issue.

If one can afford TES/TAS/KAS then you’re getting a very different English language learning environment. But then, limited Chinese of course and it costs a lot.