I am shocked that people are shocked with this racism. The DPP (I assume that’s what affiliation this councillor has since she is smiling with Annette Lu) is a party that often dislikes immigrant labour of any kind. They think that these foreign blue collar workers are taking away taike jobs away from their base
What shocks me is the outrage on this forum because it happens in developed countries as well. Imagine if un-unionized foreign teachers were brought in to compete against the teachers’ unions. I am certain xenophobia would rear its ugly head really quickly.
Feign outrage but your leftist parties in your home countries are no better!!! 
They cater to their union people who are anti-trade, anti-globalization etc. They want to protect jobs for simple white middle aged men making 60K a year so that a single women won’t be able to bring her children out of poverty by making a good developing world salary. Selfish first world spoiled suburban idiots.
[quote=“ChewDawg”]
I am shocked that people are shocked with this racism. The DPP (I assume that’s what affiliation this councillor has since she is smiling with Annette Lu) is a party that often dislikes immigrant labour of any kind. They think that these foreign blue collar workers are taking away taike jobs away from their base[/quote]
But how much of this is a grass roots problem?
[quote]
What shocks me is the outrage on this forum because it happens in developed countries as well. Imagine if un-unionized foreign teachers were brought in to compete against the teachers’ unions. I am certain xenophobia would rear its ugly head really quickly.[/quote]
Nothing to do with what we’re discussing here, and silly. Imagine if un-unionized local teachers were brought in to compete against the teachers’ unions.
Nothing to do with what we’re discussing here, in any sense.
[quote=“ChewDawg”]
Feign outrage but your leftist parties in your home countries are no better!!! 
They cater to their union people who are anti-trade, anti-globalization etc. They want to protect jobs for simple white middle aged men making 60K a year so that a single women won’t be able to bring her children out of poverty by making a good developing world salary. Selfish first world spoiled suburban idiots. [/quote]
funny, in the US it’s the left leaning party that is pro-immigrant workers.
I have not noticed that DPP has any kind of anti-immigrant-worker tendencies. I find both parties, like most of the people, are equally uneducated on how to respect immigrant workers.
[quote=“Tempo Gain”]
Nothing to do with what we’re discussing here, in any sense.[/quote]
Sure it does. People in a neighbourhood and a politician from a centre-left party in Taiwan are being xenophobic over foreign laborers. This is very common in union circles in the US where union leadership and members are often very anti-Chinese because they see the domestic market flooded in a globalized world competing against their inferior expensive products and expensive labour. This can often get very racist and nasty :no-no:
I’d rather see a left wing union person starve in the US and help out a Chinese mother in the hinterlands or other emerging markets, but that’s just me. 
Seems like you are making a very Taiwanese-esque mistake in equating the Western World with the USA. My home country most certainly does not cater to trade unionists, being as it is dominated by right-wing political parties who extol the wonders of the free market. I doubt the US does either and you are talking diversionary nonsense, but freely admit I know the USA only superficially.
If comments were made about foreigners along the same lines as those made by 呂林小鳳, that some foreign freaks’ skin colour and disgusting practice of hanging around public places with non-dark skinned people makes them scary, weird and unwelcome, then that politician would be out of a job and condemned by the court of public opinion within days, without a shadow of a doubt. Taiwan, as a country, is far too conciliatory towards naked racism and it is the government who should be taking the lead to educate the populace that such attitudes are no longer acceptable.
Because it happens somewhere else is not a good argument for it being not as bad or not shocking.
Its hard to believe that Taiwanese people go to school for so long and are still quite ignorant about this topic very sad indeed.
Can you imagine walking around New york or Toronto or any other large city pointing and saying foreigner to every Chinese person you saw. Good god. I don’t believe people are so stupid in western countries as well, most people I know realize that immigration benefits your country greatly. What makes Taiwanese people not understand this?
BTW if you study history: all of the Philippines and south east Asia were populated from yes, the small island of Taiwan. You are hating your own people.
[quote=“Skater bum”]Because it happens somewhere else is not a good argument for it being not as bad or not shocking.
Its hard to believe that Taiwanese people go to school for so long and are still quite ignorant about this topic very sad indeed.
Can you imagine walking around New york or Toronto or any other large city pointing and saying foreigner to every Chinese person you saw. Good god. I don’t believe people are so stupid in western countries as well, most people I know realize that immigration benefits your country greatly. What makes Taiwanese people not understand this?
BTW if you study history: all of the Philippines and south east Asia were populated from yes, the small island of Taiwan. You are hating your own people.[/quote]
Actually my understanding is that the Taiwanese aborigine people are the origins of most everyone in Phillippines, Indonesia, Malaysia and as far away as Hawaii. Many think the NOrht American indians are also related . And some even go to far as to suggest the South American indians may also be related.
Apparently the Aborigine peoples of Australia are a separate group. They are related to those peoples in Papua New Guinea. The Maori of New Zealand are related to the TAiwanese aborigine though, it seems.
But , and heres a big BUT. The Taiwanese aborigine are not related to the Han people who populate China and Korea and Japan. The Japanese people are interbred with their indigenous Ainu. And Taiwanese are certainly not pure han, but very much interbred with the taiwanese aborigine.
Apparently the Taiwanese aborigine originated from what is called China today some 5000 or more years ago. They (for a reason unknown to us as of now) migrated en masse from the China mainland and arrived in Taiwan and populated the island and branched out from Taiwan to cover almost all of the pacific.
The Taiwanes aborigine are not known to be racist towards Thai or Malays or Indonesians and others of a darker skin (as they themselves are also of a darker skin then the han chinese).
Its the Han Chinese portion of Taiwanese that are racist towards those of a darker skin.
I think you severely overestimate the intelligence of the average voter/person. Again, those of us that travel, have worked abroad and have foreign spouses truly recognize the benefits of immigration/diversity. And maybe business communities and urban middle to upper class voters in the West recognize the benefits of globalization and diverse workforces. But trades people? And union workforces? I’d say large sections of these demographics view immigrants suspiciously and would probably oppose large scale immigration focused on their sector. Why? Competition and they’d say lower standards! But in reality it’s crass protectionism of their profession.
Again my point is that as much as I find the actions of the Taiwanese politician and people in that neighbourhood to be bigoted, it hardly is a Taiwanese trait. This shit happens all over the place. For those of us that are Canadian like Deuce, remember Parizeau blaming the ethnic vote during the last referendum? As such I am not surprised that some people in a semi-backwater (Taiwan, as charming as it is) have xenophobic tendencies. In fact, it is to be expected. Lots of it around the world.
Bade is not a charming backwater. It’s urban Taiwan at its worst: dirty, polluted, abd ugly. It’s also, like most of Taoyuan county, solidly blue. Lu is Dpp but the council is 3/2 Kmt and the area voted blue fir the presidential and legislative elections. I would also highly doubt this is a strong union area given the weakness of unions across Taiwan.
Other than the fact that yes racism is everywhere you’ve miscategorized everything.
[quote=“Mucha Man”]Bade is not a charming backwater. It’s urban Taiwan at its worst: dirty, polluted, abd ugly. It’s also, like most of Taoyuan county, solidly blue. Lu is Dpp but the council is 3/2 Kmt and the area voted blue fir the presidential and legislative elections. I would also highly doubt this is a strong union area given the weakness of unions across Taiwan.
Other than the fact that yes racism is everywhere you’ve miscategorized everything.[/quote]
You’re missing my point. Never tied it to unionism in Taiwan. I said such racism happens everywhere including in developed countries. I am surprised by foreigners being outraged in Taiwan when such racism is often displayed in many blue collar professions in the West. That people in grimy Bade are being xenophobic doesn’t shock me just as I wouldn’t be shocked by racist unions in the West criticizing Chinese-made goods.
I think you are back pedalling a bit which is fine as I agree with what you are saying now.
[quote=“ChewDawg”]
You’re missing my point. Never tied it to unionism in Taiwan. I said such racism happens everywhere including in developed countries. I am surprised by foreigners being outraged in Taiwan when such racism is often displayed in many blue collar professions in the West. That people in grimy Bade are being xenophobic doesn’t shock me just as I wouldn’t be shocked by racist unions in the West criticizing Chinese-made goods.[/quote]
I see a fine line between criticism of goods with a Made in China(or anywhere else) sticker on them and the expulsion of a particular race from a community.
[quote=“ChewDawg”]
You’re missing my point. Never tied it to unionism in Taiwan. I said such racism happens everywhere including in developed countries.[/quote]
Does that mean that any particular instance of racism should not be discussed? It should all simply be ignored?
Do you have some specific reason why you’re surprised that people commenting in this thread would care to comment on this case? If there were a similar case which occurred in the West, regardless of the class of the protagonists, do you think it would be ignored here?
[quote=“Tempo Gain”]
If there were a similar case which occurred in the West, regardless of the class of the protagonists, do you think it would be ignored here? [/quote]
Yes, for the most part. I don’t think a majority of people on here are as hard on unions as they should be. Since 2000, in the US, there have been over 4,200 complaints filed against unions for racial discrimination with the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission. More problems in the North US than the South.
[quote]
A January 2008 review of trade unionists working on $500-million worth of Philly public projects during the preceding five years conducted by then Inquirer columnist Tom Ferrick concluded, “these well paid union jobs … remain all-male, nearly all-white and the majority live in the suburbs. [/quote]
Who cares about the US, mods chops this irrelevant mush out of the thread before he successfully derails another decent thread. Or watch a lot of people not even bother posting on this.
Don’t be such a whiner/control freak and try to refute my points instead of being a baby!
Racism in unions and amongst workers is a huge problem in developed countries and yet white collar foreigners and teachers in Taiwan are angry because politicians/citizens of a blue collar neighbourhood in Taiwan want to see foreign blue collar workers not congregate in the area?
Racist and tribal? Yes. But are foreigners surprised? People that have lived in Taiwan long enough and seen/heard of domestic helper abuse stories, the idiotic credit card rules, the deportation of certain people (e.g., Chocolate, that musician dude from Taidong etc.) realize that racism is very much alive, as it is in most places in the world.
However, I think this outrage is crocodile tears/hypocritical because:
- the same racism is evident in the own countries and I doubt they get as worked up about it.
- most importantly, these people benefit from their exoticness, minority status in Taiwan and yet want to criticize the culture (old posts ridiculing ghost money burning, this post criticizing racism) that gives them special status-- a status for many that may be better than they deserve.
Instead they think back home is some PC utopia, but they work in Taiwan and criticize a culture they deem as inferior A culture that gives them probably a better life than back home. That’s super-arrogant commentary. 
Taiwan has warts but all parts of the globe do.
Errr I don’t think the unions can be compared to these guys. Imagine if a little white community of 1000 in backwater Memphis started protesting against a group of 40 black (or Indonesian workers) brought in to work in a nearby factory. That just doesn’t happen anymore (although I definitely see that happening even just 30 years back). But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be criticized for it. If no one criticized the racists in the States back then, then they would have never changed. My point is that it’s racist and it’s wrong.
[quote=“ChewDawg”]
- the same racism is evident in the own countries and I doubt they get as worked up about it. [/quote]
No it’s not, and if it was we (as a country) would. It is unacceptable in my country to come out and say that you want a group of dirty foreigners with their horrible dark skin to piss off back to whichever country they came from, or at least to have the decency to be completely segregated from polite society. Your supposition is nonsense. Unless of course you can find a recent example of what I have described above being said by a British politician with no ramifications for their career.
[quote=“ChewDawg”]2. most importantly, these people benefit from their exoticness, minority status in Taiwan and yet want to criticize the culture (old posts ridiculing ghost money burning, this post criticizing racism) that gives them special status-- a status for many that may be better than they deserve.
Instead they think back home is some PC utopia, but they work in Taiwan and criticize a culture they deem as inferior A culture that gives them probably a better life than back home. That’s super-arrogant commentary. Taiwan has warts but all parts of the globe do.[/quote]
I don’t see anyone in here saying their home country is a perfect place (I choose to live here over living in my own country for many reasons), or that Taiwan has an inferior culture to their own. Doesn’t mean they should be banned from pointing out where Taiwan (in general) is getting things horribly, embarrassingly wrong. I’m not surprised by this story, but I do think it is fucking disgusting and shameful.
[quote=“tetentikov”]
No it’s not, and if it was we (as a country) would. It is unacceptable in my country to come out and say that you want a group of dirty foreigners with their horrible dark skin to piss off back to whichever country they came from, or at least to have the decency to be completely segregated from polite society. Your supposition is nonsense. Unless of course you can find a recent example of what I have described above being said by a British politician with no ramifications for their career. [/quote]
The current home secretary. The Brits are every bit as racist–they just do it in a subtle and less direct manner.
For example, the new requirement that family incomes must be over 18,000 pounds for foreigner spouses of British citizens to be allowed residency is pure racism against citizens of less developed countries. Imagine if Taiwan did that for spouses! Kindy teachers and the underclass from many countries wouldn’t make the cut.
I wonder how many people/Forumosans will protest in front of Taiwan’s BTCO over this new fucked up requirement? 
Ah right. Much easier to criticize the locals!
Thank you for your quotes or sources doing as I requested, namely highlighting an example of a British politician (suffering few negative consequences) who has said something along the lines of
“(We) are merely worried that clashes could happen because of these foreign workers, with their different skin color and different culture, going in and out of the community.”
Financial requirement laws might be reprehensible unfair, whatever, but they are clearly not nakedly racist, unlike your people here in Taiwan petitioning against the dark skinned. Unless you can direct me to the clause which says ‘You must earn more than 18,000 pounds - oh, and you better not have dark skin either.’
You may say and believe it is easy to criticise the locals/local politicians in this story. I contend that it is a lot easier to just roll your eyes, laugh it off as those wacky Taiwanese doing what they do, and just accept it as a completely normal way of viewing the world.