Retired Officials Say Bush Must Go
[color=blue]The 26 ex-diplomats and military leaders say his foreign policy has harmed national security. Several served under Republicans.[/color]
The signatories
Avis T. Bohlen
Ah so “several” were appointed by Reagan and Bush. That would make the other 23 what? Democrats? No. In an election year we are facing officials who are coming out against the other side’s candidate. No. I am shocked. No SHOCKED.
Bush is going down…the price to pay for making the world a less safe place to live. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!! :raspberry:
Have to agree with Freddy on this one. No surprise that most “State Department lifers” aren’t supporting Bush. Avis Bohlen? If my memory serves correct, she is the daughter of the late Chester “Chip” Bohlen, an Adlai Stevenson type of Democrat…surprise surprise.
Chewy
[quote=“Chewycorns”]suprise suprise.
Chewy[/quote]
Surprise…surly?
Dear Fred.
I haven’t talked to a soul here in the SOUTH (lawd be!) who can tolerate the bastard chimp boy! Not even my Nixon-loving mom, who gets pissed off when she hears the name Rumsfeld uttered.
I predict a landslide LOSS, however, if Diebold has already programmed the voting machines ala Orwellian pig fashion, there may no alternative.
Sadly, the US has gone to hell in a handbasket, just as I’d predicted. You really oughta pussyfoot over here one of these days and study the decay for yourself.
I suggest you take up knitting, Fred. Save your fingers for a more useful pasttime.
Oh, and I couldn’t get my driver’s license here in this town as some mumblings about having an original UNlaminated copy of a Social Security Card due to the Patriot’s Act, bla bla bla…
yeah, being stateside after so long away is a bit strange.
wasn’t it always a no-no to laminate your social security card? keep mine in one of those plastic baseball card sleeves. anyways, ALOT more rigamorole than there used to be.
i don’t care for kerry. but goodness gracious…everyone here detests bush.
I have a very lucky friend - a British veteran of the '91 Gulf War - who lives in NW France yet works in London (a disgusting p.o.s., he is). In October 2002, when anybody with an internal temperature above “corpse” could tell that shrub was going to wage war on Iraq, Ric got so angry that he couldn’t stop posting vile things about Bush & the Neocons to usenet. To assuage his outrage, he bet 10 euros, at 500-1 odds, that the Bush administration would suspend the presidential election of 2004. It worked, too.
I pointed out that Lincoln, another Republican, held elections in 1864 and in the midst of the US Civil War, but I don’t think Ric or his blood pressure felt a whit in the face of that news.
I wonder what those odds are today in the London betting shops?
Yeah, as a newly replanted American myself, it’s pretty obvious, I think, that shrub will likely chuck Ashcroft any day now.
Lately Ashcroft has been the target of many, many unflattering news items written by American reporters who’ve (finally) noticed a pattern in Ashcroft’s DoJ (Dept. of Justice): bad news about the FBI, or some other DoJ branch which reports to Ashcroft, followed within 48 hours by news of possible, perhaps likely even … 
… , terrorist attacks on US soil.
Even John King, of CNN, looked (to me) like he was going to gag on the news (his own news report, that is) yesterday, of a shopping mall in Ohio that has been targeted - any day now! - by al Qaeda (this follows, predictably, the release on Sunday of a DoJ memo that basically says torture ain’t torture, when employed by the US in Iraq, unless the victim loses a major organ or its equivalent).
Maybe Cheney’ll get chucked, too, from what I hear told.
President George W. Orwell In His Own Words:
Today, on the United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture, [color=blue]the United States declares its strong solidarity with torture victims across the world.[/color] Torture anywhere is an affront to human dignity everywhere. We are committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law.
[color=blue]Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right. The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment, ratified by the United States and more than 130 other countries since 1984, forbids governments from deliberately inflicting severe physical or mental pain or suffering on those within their custody or control.[/color] Yet torture continues to be practiced around the world by rogue regimes whose cruel methods match their determination to crush the human spirit. Beating, burning, rape, and electric shock are some of the grisly tools such regimes use to terrorize their own citizens. These despicable crimes cannot be tolerated by a world committed to justice.
Notorious human rights abusers, including, among others, Burma, Cuba, North Korea, Iran, and Zimbabwe, have long sought to shield their abuses from the eyes of the world by staging elaborate deceptions and denying access to international human rights monitors. Until recently, Saddam Hussein used similar means to hide the crimes of his regime. With Iraq’s liberation, the world is only now learning the enormity of the dictator’s three decades of victimization of the Iraqi people. Across the country, evidence of Baathist atrocities is mounting, including scores of mass graves containing the remains of thousands of men, women, and children and torture chambers hidden inside palaces and ministries. The most compelling evidence of all lies in the stories told by torture survivors, who are recounting a vast array of sadistic acts perpetrated against the innocent. Their testimony reminds us of their great courage in outlasting one of history’s most brutal regimes, and it reminds us that similar cruelties are taking place behind the closed doors of other prison states.
[color=blue]The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example.[/color] I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. [color=blue]I call on all nations to speak out against torture in all its forms and to make ending torture an essential part of their diplomacy.[/color] I further urge governments to join America and others in supporting torture victims’ treatment centers, contributing to the UN Fund for the Victims of Torture, and supporting the efforts of non-governmental organizations to end torture and assist its victims.
No people, no matter where they reside, should have to live in fear of their own government. Nowhere should the midnight knock foreshadow a nightmare of state-commissioned crime. The suffering of torture victims must end, and the United States calls on all governments to assume this great mission. . . .
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/06/20030626-3.html
Alien:
How has America gone to hell in a handbasket? You had to go through some extra hoops to get a driver’s license. Big deal. Deal with it. Like Taiwan is a picnic when it comes to rules and regulations? So how has America gone to hell in a handbasket? Who have you been talking to? They are probably just afraid to disagree with you. Who knows?
Second, America has always been AGAINST torture. The cases in Abu Ghraib are so far isolated so let’s not go hyperventilating that this is standard practice. If you want to count standing in the sun or being put in uncomfortable positions as torture, sorry that kind of “interpretation” only works with Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky. What we do have is sexual abuse and this is and always would have been prosecuted so where is the big discrepancy between what George W. is saying and what is actually going on?
We have now traced something to the top. What was it? That the US leadership approved methods like using dogs to intimidate prisoners, standing in sun, sleep deprivation and we have one person quoted as saying that prisoners were to be treated like dogs in the sense that they would be rewarded for good behavior and punished for bad. Ummm how exactly does that lead to putting leashes on them and wiping them with feces? Apparently someone who has a history of such abuse back in the US went a bit far with that. Was he given orders to do so. Don’t think so. But he was led to understand that prisoners should be uncomfortable and that a system of rewards and punishment should be set up. Fine and dandy. He stepped out of line, and is being punished.
[quote=“fred smith”]
Second, America has always been AGAINST torture. The cases in Abu Ghraib are so far isolated so let’s not go hyperventilating that this is standard practice. [/quote]
Fred Doesn’t Know Jack
. . . the Bush Administration has stuck to the claim that the crimes were the vile acts of a few bad soldiers. But the effort to blame a few individuals has faltered as evidence has mounted of abuse in U.S. detention centers from Cuba to Afghanistan to Iraq. Last week the scandal seemed to drift ever closer to implicating policymakers at the highest levels of the U.S. war council.
A series of leaked legal memos has revealed that since late 2001 the Administration has been quietly but fundamentally reshaping America’s stance on torture. Contradicting 50 years of policy governing the treatment of detainees captured during conflict, [color=blue]the memos meticulously list all the laws against torture
[quote=“fred smith”]Alien:
How has America gone to hell in a handbasket?.[/quote]
Let’s see:
Every other tv commercial is a law firm telling people to call them if they want to sue someone, every food commercial is saying
their
product is LOW in CARBS even though there are fast food places every where you go and big HUGE fat people waddling around Walmart. The price of gas is the highest of all time (yes, we deal with that, don’t we). There are amazing numbers of hoops to jump through for EVERY damn thing. Getting a cell phone, getting a license, calling the service line on the cell phone, getting a home phone takes 2 weeks to install…
It’s backwards here, meaning that it’s about ten years or so behind TW in as far as technology goes.
There’s ONE place in Greensboro that has wireless internet connection. Even Asheville NC is ahead of here, a town where I went to college that hasn’t developed AT ALL in the past twenty years.
Blue Cross wants to charge me US $500+ per month for insurance. I told them to shove it hard up their theiving asses and have decided to go sans insurance until i can get back to the real world where one can get health care without having to mortgage one’s parent’s home for it.
People are poor but prices are high. And many other nasty things.
Dare YOU to come back now, Fred. You can sit there in all your resplendent glory sucking down bottles of wine at Salsa Bistro, but if you set one foot back in this country, perhaps you would actually SEE how grim the situation is here rather than sniffing about it. I DOUBLE DARE YOU!!!
I’ll keep you posted, but don’t hold your breath on Gorgeous George’s
election, unless, like I mentioned before, DIEBOLD has anything to do with it…
KERRY is quite a likeable chap after all.
[quote=“Alien”][quote=“fred smith”]Alien:
How has America gone to hell in a handbasket?.[/quote]
Let’s see:
Every other tv commercial is a law firm telling people to call them if they want to sue someone, every food commercial is saying
their
product is LOW in CARBS even though there are fast food places every where you go and big HUGE fat people waddling around Walmart. The price of gas is the highest of all time (yes, we deal with that, don’t we). There are amazing numbers of hoops to jump through for EVERY damn thing. Getting a cell phone, getting a license, calling the service line on the cell phone, getting a home phone takes 2 weeks to install…
It’s backwards here, meaning that it’s about ten years or so behind TW in as far as technology goes.
There’s ONE place in Greensboro that has wireless internet connection. Even Asheville NC is ahead of here, a town where I went to college that hasn’t developed AT ALL in the past twenty years.
Blue Cross wants to charge me US $500+ per month for insurance. I told them to shove it hard up their theiving asses and have decided to go sans insurance until I can get back to the real world where one can get health care without having to mortgage one’s parent’s home for it.
People are poor but prices are high. And many other nasty things.
Dare YOU to come back now, Fred. You can sit there in all your resplendent glory sucking down bottles of wine at Salsa Bistro, but if you set one foot back in this country, perhaps you would actually SEE how grim the situation is here rather than sniffing about it. I DOUBLE DARE YOU!!!
I’ll keep you posted, but don’t hold your breath on Gorgeous George’s
election, unless, like I mentioned before, DIEBOLD has anything to do with it…
Kerry is quite a likeable chap after all.[/quote]
Well, a lot of wealthy socialites sure think so. Personally I think he is a blue blood moneygrubber. The Dems should have picked someone who can relate to real people.
President Bush’s Letter to Congress on March 18, 2003 Authorizing U.S. Invasion of Iraq:
[color=blue]Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine . . . [/color]
[color=blue]. . . to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.[/color]
Sincerely,
GEORGE W. BUSH
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-1.html
[color=blue]“We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks on the United States.”[/color]
September 11th Commission, June 16, 2004
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/shoulders/CommissionStatement15.pdf
[quote=“Alien”][quote=“fred smith”]Alien:
How has America gone to hell in a handbasket?.[/quote]
Alien
The things you pointed out [quote]Every other tv commercial is a law firm telling people to call them if they want to sue someone, every food commercial is saying
their
product is LOW in CARBS even though there are fast food places every where you go and big HUGE fat people waddling around Walmart. The price of gas is the highest of all time (yes, we deal with that, don’t we). There are amazing numbers of hoops to jump through for EVERY damn thing. Getting a cell phone, getting a license, calling the service line on the cell phone, getting a home phone takes 2 weeks to install…[/quote][/quote]
have been going on in the USA for years now. I’ve been in Taiwan approximately 3 years and go back to the states 1-2 times a year. The things you are mentioning are not indications of the USA going downhill.
You should be pointing out such things as the number of deaths by guns each year; the CEOs who get away with driving companies into the ground while lining their own pockets; the fact that logging companies are removing trees at such an alarming rate that they are making some forests almost barren.
There are some parts of Taiwan that don’t even get CNN!
Fat people at Walmart? Heaven forbid!
Alien:
Get a job and you will have some kind of insurance. Hell work at Walmart part time.
I think you are going through reverse culture shock. Read up on it. Deal with it. Besides, you can always come back here, and we can go to Salsa Bistro and suck down wine together.
Love fred
Alien,
You could move to Iraq if you need low-cost health care. Your tax dollars are busy building a pretty nice health care infrastructure there right now. The taxpayer-funded USAID has:
Awarded $1.3 million in small grants to support Iraqi NGO healthcare efforts throughout Iraq.
Developed a hospital and clinic facility database for the Ministry of Health on facility type, location, service distribution, cost information, and building condition.
[color=blue]Renovated 52 primary health care clinics re-equipping over 600 to provide essential primary healthcare services.[/color]
Trained healthcare trainers who will reach more than 2,000 primary healthcare providers throughout Iraq.
Distributed high-protein supplementary food rations to more than 240,000 pregnant and nursing mothers and malnourished children.
Evaluated 18 national and regional public health laboratories for equipment needs.
Rehabilitated the National Polio Laboratory.
Trained more than 1,000 health workers and volunteers to identify, treat and monitor the growth of acutely malnourished children.
Worked with the Iraqi Ministry of Health to develop a five year strategic plan. Goals include increasing the level of preventative care available to the Iraqi people by addressing public health, health care delivery, health information systems, pharmaceuticals, medical supplies and equipment, health care finance, education and training, human resources, legislation and regulation, and licensing and accreditation.
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/health.html
And the nice part is the Iraqi people really appreciate all the sacrifices you’re making so they can have affordable health care.
[quote=“spook”]Alien,
You could move to Iraq if you need low-cost health care. Your tax dollars are busy…
http://www.usaid.gov/Iraq/accomplishments/health.html
And the nice part is the Iraqi people really appreciate all the sacrifices you’re making so they can have affordable health care.[/quote]
Yeah, Alien, they’ll love ya. 
Yer neck, anyway.
And hey, don’t crap out on the Iraqis now by trying to reduce your payroll taxes. If you are going to get a US paycheck soon, claim 0 dependents so shrub can send yer dollars over there ever quicker! (c’mon, suck it up, you don’t need yer lungs - or, rather, the insurance to pay for their upkeep - anyway, right?)
Wait, I forgot: shrub’s borrowin’ it all anyway. It’s the next generation who’ll have to pay. Never mind!
And to think it’s dem dastardly dem liberals who’ve slandered The Great One with all this talk about the evils of an “all volunteer” task force in Iraq! As it is now, EVERY American gets to chip in!
[quote=“fred smith”]Alien:
Get a job and you will have some kind of insurance. Hell work at Walmart part time.[/quote]
Fred (oh wise one), Shows how much you know about Walmart employee health benefits!!
[quote]Wal-Mart
I still don’t understand why Forumosa has an International Politics forum. There are hundreds of websites to discuss International Politics, why do it on a forum for expats living in or having relocated to Taiwan?
Why hasn’t anyone put these discussions into the context of how one or the other guy’s policies will effect Taiwan? Could it be because you guys don’t care? If that is the case, I feel you should go talk about your international politics elsewhere and stop wasting the bandwidth of this Forumosa website dedicated to topics relevant to Taiwan.
Anyway, being that I have lived in Taiwan for 7 to 8 years already and will live here for many more years to come, I think it is extremely important how each US presidential candidate effects my life and my family’s life here in Taiwan. Because of this, my vote goes to Bush! Out of the two choices he is surely more of a friend to Taiwan than China butt kisser Kerry. Just google Kerry and Taiwan and see what I mean. I think he will be worse for Taiwan than when Mr. Clinton Shanghaied Taiwan with his Three No’s!