Indeed we already considered Rhys’ Sargasso, and it is on our list as our, third, I believe, book before the Ballard. Since we can’t find anywhere to meet in the 101, how about the Starbucks on ShiDong in Tian Mu, diagonal from the Takashimaya? Lots of seats on the second floor, I believe.
And, about the time? 3 in general is not so good for me, and particularly un-good for the next meeting. What do you guys think of meeting at 4, 4:30 or 5 instead? Depends somewhat on how long we think we will chat for and if we think people will arrive on time…
Looking forward to it! Is the next date Dec 3? I will be on holiday for Dec 17th not back for a Sunday until Jan 14. So you guys may just want to meet or else suspend meetings for winter holiday time. Up to you.
I’m fine with your suggested meeting place - Starbucks in TianMu opposite the Takashimaya department store. Is there a nearby alternative you know of just in case it’s as busy as the seating area around Page One was ? (I’m pretty sure there is: there are several cafes I’ve noticed in that area.) I’m also fine with 4 o’clock. According to a previous message (posted by TianFu) the books that have been chosen so far are ‘This Side of Paradise’ which we’ll be discussing on November 19 followed by ‘The Best Short Stories of JG Ballard’ and then ‘Jane Eyre’. I haven’t decided yet on my choice: I’m not sure whether to go American or English or possibly a translation (a literary menu !! Words to feast on indeed.) Hope you’re enjoying the Fitzgerald.
So far, THIS SIDE OF PARADISE is beautifully written, but I hate Amory. Oh how I hate him. Hate hate hate. I can only hope that at some point in this narrative the delicate lad is trampled to death by rowdy longshoremen.
Just checking / confirming that next Sunday’s meeting is at 4 o’clock at the Starbucks opposite the Takashimaya in TianMu. And pleased to read that you’re enjoying the Fitzgerald so much, Beautiful Spam. Is ‘loathsome’ Amory ( I’m personally not so sure he is actually ) a version of the young Fitzgerald himself ? Princeton was his old alma mater and I think he was writing the book while there. I hope you guys can fill me in on some of the college ‘traditions’ referred to - and what influence they had (still have) on the making of America. Hope you’re still all having a good read and weekend.
sorry, that is just my gut reaction to someone like Amory. Call it class resentment if you want
Also, unless one of us went to an east coast ivy, princeton traditions are likely as foreign to us as they are to you, but maybe we could do some research (?).
Now, if you want to know about pep rallies and beer bongs maybe i can help you
Looking forward to seeing you all tomorrow at the Starbucks opposite the Takashimaya department store. Just about finished reading the book - a couple of pages left. It’ll be very interesting for me to hear the ‘American take’ on this novel !! How relevant is it to modern day America / American society ? It’s a kind of classic, I suppose - but of whose literature ?? And just how ‘American’ is Amory ? I’ve never met or heard of any other American called Amory. And according to 'Freakonomics names can be of some significance in American society. Some explaining to do / investigate ??
Could someone tell me how to say “takashimaya dept. store” in chinese, or post the address for the starbucks where we’re meeting?
i suspect one of the reasons that fitz. is on all the high school reading lists is that the people who draw up those lists are east coast elite, and find him personally relevant?
whose literature? that is the question i always ask myself when i start a fitz. novel
i suppose i can find some relevance for a country boy from SW virginia if i look hard enough, but fitz. has never been my favorite writer.
Great meeting yesterday! Now, onto Jane Eyre, for our next meeting on the 2nd…if we can all read that fast!
I vote for reading Sargasso Sea next, as it is a companion novel to Eyre; then, going to Faulkner instead of Ballard, as the initial idea of the group was to read the “classics”; and since beautifulspam seems to love Faulkner so much, maybe he could suggest the most important Faulkner novel? I’ve only read one, if any…
Once again, back to the meeting over the holidays issue. If you guys are all around on the 17th, I would suggest meeting. The next meeting after that would be on New Year’s which seems like a good one to cancel. We could meet on the 6th instead?
Anyway, much fun talking socio-economics with you all yesterday…
Yes, it was a good meeting yesterday - but sorry you weren’t able to speak that much, Tianfu (and hope you’re feeling better now. ) I’m not sure we quite finished with the book. I feel Amory got a bit of a bad press which doesn’t mean I liked him but I think he’s really more substantial a character than we seemed to be giving him credit for. He is always a work-in-progress (in many ways just like the book itself: I wonder how many re-writes Fitzgerald might have done if he had felt he could have given himself more time ?) but is clearly a different person at the end from the romantic egotist we are presented with at the beginning and for the most part at Princeton (where some seeds of doubt are planted - Burne Holiday’s function.) He has descended into ‘hell’ (the cemetery scene - post-war repercussion) but at least has become more self aware even if he hasn’t totally thought through ( and at that age - any age for that matter - who does ?) some of the radical ideas he espouses during the car journey with ‘the big man with goggles’. Or is it simply political romanticism ? Flirting with a socialist viewpoint - with events in Russia in mind ? And just how will he develop ? Like Fitzgerald himself ?? That final hyphen implies a new beginning (??) Maybe Amory is a prototype - to be developed / metamorphose into other Fitzgerald characters ?
Did anybody say they actually liked the book ? I’d be interested in knowing why you thought we could quite easily have dispensed with the first two hundred pages, TianFu ? I agree that it needed some closer editing which certainly would have reduced the number of pages.
Faulkner is one of my favourite writers too, Beautiful Spam ( and by the way I hope things are going well / went well for you in HK.) As Travelinchica suggested, perhaps you’d like to choose one of his novels rather than the Ballard ? I’m afraid I still haven’t made up my mind as to my choice. I could make a few suggestions and you could help me ?
I’ll be around on the 17th so a meeting then would be fine with me. Having said that I’m not sure I’ll be able to get through "Jane Eyre’ in the next couple of weeks. I’ll do my best.
I would love to put something by faulkner on the list as the 5th or 6th book, but let’s stick with ballard as my choice for this round. I’m interested to see what non SF types would have to say about a SF novel.
If someone thinks they really won’t be able to get into ballard maybe we can compromise on pynchon.
I was thinking on the flight over that amory might not do so well on the voitt-kampf exam
And yeah I finally got my resident visa, thanks for asking
I am feeling a lot better, thanks – I felt AWFUL that day =) I wanted to say a lot more than I did, obviously. I kind of agree with Goodfella, I think Amory matured a lot more by the end of the book than we were giving him credit for.
I really felt like the first 200 pages were badly written. There were pleasant descriptions of different settings which I enjoyed reading, but I felt like I could see Fitzgerald too much in the writing, like he was writing about himself (in a rather self-absorbed manner) rather than creating a story about someone else. I have a lot more to say, but I won’t make everyone read it here…
I won’t be able to make it on Sunday; I have to leave Taipei for the weekend. Maybe we can move the meeting to the next Sunday? Then we can all read this mountain of a book in a more relaxed manner, and I can actually meet with you guys to talk about it!
I kind of enjoyed Amory’s self-absorption…it makes sense actually, when you think about where I work. But I’m not sure he grew enough to really understand and care about the things about which he spoke…and yes, Tianfu, too much Fitzgerald, not enough character.
I can’t come the following weekend…will be in HK…and then gone to Vietnam until January 5. I’m only about 100 pages in, but I’m liking these a lot better…I might be able to finish before the weekend…not sure.
How is the reading going for everyone else? If folks are more interested in meeting in two weeks, I’ll have to bid you all adieu until January…
Good to hear from you, Travelinchica and Tianfu (especially that you’re feeling much better now.)
I think to keep the momentum of the group going we should meet this weekend and next. That way both of you will be able to participate and contribute to a discussion of the novel no matter how much you / we’ve read. I’d like to hear what all of us have to say. I’m just over a third of the way through and reading as quickly as eye and time will allow. It’s a long time since I read a classic. I’m finding it both interesting and in many ways surprising.
Going back to 'This Side … … ’ it’s possible that Fitzgerald wasn’t so clear in its eventual focus, hence its relatively uneven feel. For me the earlier part of the book was better - Amory’s ‘education’ if you like. I realise how autobiographical it is but isn’t that how writers actually create, their imaginations informed by their respective experiences (although having said that you could quite easily cite the example of Charlotte Bronte herself !!) I sense that Fitzgerald knows what he’s doing more in these pages than those that follow the interlude (the war: it couldn’t be ignored, it was the defining moment in world history at the time.) Perhaps he needed a better editor ? (But the one he got did in fact champion it and succeeded in having it published.)
Do you have any suggestions for places to meet ? Should we meet at the same Starbucks at the same time in TianMu ? And perhaps we should find somewhere nearer where you live, TianFu for next weekend ? (All this includes you too, Beautiful Spam - and any others who might be interested in coming along.)
Beautiful Spam, my suggestion after reading the posts from Travelinchica and Tianfu was to have two meetings on the same book so that we would all have an opportunity to discuss it, thus this Sunday - at the same Starbucks in TianMu and at the same time we all met for the last meeting, which Travelinchica can attend - and next Sunday at a time / place more convenient for TianFu and yourself to which TianFu can come. Hope that clears things up. By the way, how’s the reading going ? It’s a longer book than 'This Side … … ’ but an ‘easier’ read (perhaps ?)
But I’m not sure he grew enough to really understand and care about the things about which he spoke…and yes, Tianfu, too much Fitzgerald, not enough character.