Reagn was just an idiot for initiating Star Wars, right?

[quote]The Pentagon activated its new U.S. ground-based interceptor missile defense system, and officials announced yesterday that any long-range missile launch by North Korea would be considered a “provocative act.”
Poor weather conditions above where the missile site was located by U.S. intelligence satellites indicates that an immediate launch is unlikely, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
However, intelligence officials said preparations have advanced to the point where a launch could take place within several days to a month.
Two Navy Aegis warships are patrolling near North Korea as part of the global missile defense and would be among the first sensors that would trigger the use of interceptors, the officials said yesterday.
The U.S. missile defense system includes 11 long-range interceptor missiles, including nine deployed at Fort Greeley, Alaska, and two at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif. The system was switched from test to operational mode within the past two weeks, the officials said.
One senior Bush administration official told The Washington Times that an option being considered would be to shoot down the Taepodong missile with responding interceptors.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice added that any launch would be a serious matter and “would be taken with utmost seriousness and indeed a provocative act.”
[/quote] … -4554r.htm

Too bad that Reagan wasted all that money on trying to develop a missile defense system. Clearly, he has once again, unlike Carter, been proved by history to have been fatally mistaken in his strategic aims. The USSR should have been accommodated as we all learned. A missile defense system has also cleary been just a waste of money. Meanwhile, Carter was once again proved right about Iran. Er, um, well, the idea was that um they should um… And Carter was also proved right about the Palestinians who just need a chance to be able to rule themselves to prove that um. er. um. well. and just as he said that 1994 treaty with Pyongyang would get them to enter the world system as a peaceful nation, er, um, er well, um ah…

So, people ARE essentially bad Fred?

crap. I just lost five bucks.

Fred, you are the all seeing eye aren’t you! I knew it! The Illuminati do exist!! :notworthy:

George Lucas created Star Wars. Any dick could tell you that.

Well, it’s been suggested that this is a wonderful opportunity to test the system

Yes, he was.

I don’t know why you’re getting all smarmy, Fred; it has always been and remains a collossal waste of money and will never work. Ergo, it was and remains a stupid idea, unless of course you’re in the defense industry, wish to support your cronies who are, or you’re just bamboozled by patriotic rhetoric.


Best of all: Fred’s article does not even mention the Star Wars program of the Reagan years.

Which, btw, I considered a very good political campaign. Bit a gambit, bit a bluff, but telling the USSR in no ill terms: “Listen, we got the cash to even pursue space mounted laser beams AS well as ether-googles AS well as giant killer robots … and even if it all turns out just nonsense we STILL will have enough cash over. What have you got?” made a point who could afford to even sponsor nonsense and who could not any longer at the end of the century. So while the engineering of “laser space battle stations” may have been all nonsense, the message carried may have paid off.

Nevertheless true to form … Fred needs to selectively pour over history books today to find validation for his current utopian future dreams. Next thing he’ll tell again how Iraq will turn out like Japan and Germany after WWII. Just like that.

OH yuckety yuck. You guys really do crack me up. Where did the missile defense program get its start and even though the Russkies are no longer the threat that they once were, lo and behold, aren’t we all glad that we have something up and working albeit not perfectly that may give us some assistance against North Korean threats to nuke a few Japanese or Korean cities or else?

So? how many of us here are glad that the system is in place? How many think it is still a waste of money? haha

Off the cuff: it started with Nazi rocket scientists. After WWII they were later trafficked to the U.S. (and any crimes ignored) and helped to catch up a bit during the space race.

The Star Wars program was later a dead end branch of that space race. Space based laser platforms or pebble throwers: works in theory … impossible to engineer … but still - as a message to the USSR probably a good ploy.

Guess why Star Wars is not mentioned in your article Fred? Reagan’s Star Wars has probably as much to do with current ABM systems as the Dodo with the avian flu.

Nice try though to portray it different. Love it when you got to backpeddal from “Star Wars saved the day” to “well, nice we got some kind of ABM system working these days”.

Who do you think that you are talking to? haha

Fine. Nothing came of it in terms of missile defense?

Quite possible. So ante up. Where’s the proof? Give me a rebuttal. I will reconsider. Just seemed a coincidence to me that this system was up and running to deal with North Korea. Anyway, Reagan wanted just such a system so even if it was not Star Wars, it still is the kind of defense that he wanted, ergo, works for me… but do pony up any links that you have. I would be interested, very interested.

I will be happy to backpedal when you provide some sort of link. Regardless, as I have said, Reagan wanted a missile defense system. If this was not the original one under Star Wars, then I don’t care, we still have one and he wanted one and that is maybe why we have one now?

Too lazy. Cutting you back to “well, we now got something Ronnie (and only him of course, right)also once wanted in some kind of way and I am so happy-happy-happy about it because I love to bask in the achievement of others” suffices completely. What I just don’t get though is why you did not use “we” again (e.g. “we made SDI into what saves us today”) like you usually do.

What you can bet on though is that a lot of rocket science is based on Nazi technology. Google a bit for “Operation Paperclip”. Will get you a lot of stupid conspiracy sites, does not change a thing though about the basic fact of these and other projects like TICOM or Alsos.

System? Bush’s missile defense plan isn’t a system. A system is something that works.

[quote]U.S. Missile Defense Test Fails
Latest Setback in Pacific Fuels Doubts About System’s Future
December 16, 2004

The Bush administration’s effort to build a system for defending the country against ballistic missile attack suffered an embarrassing setback yesterday when an interceptor missile failed to launch during the first flight test of the system in two years. . .

The aborted test cast fresh doubt over when Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld would decide to put the new system on alert. That decision had been expected earlier this fall, after the installation of an initial set of six interceptors at a launch facility near Fairbanks, Alaska.

. . . Pentagon officials have described the facility as going through a “shakedown” phase and have insisted that the decision to declare it operational would be made independent of the outcome of the flight test. Lawrence Di Rita, the Pentagon’s top spokesman, reiterated yesterday that “the test was not connected to any decisions about operational capability.” :loco:

. . . the Pentagon’s top spokesman, reiterated yesterday that “the test was not connected to any decisions about operational capability.” :unamused:

The previous flight test, in December 2002, also flopped when the kill vehicle failed to separate from the booster. Pentagon officials suspended further flight testing until a new booster could be developed, but that effort took longer than expected.

By spring of this year, the new booster was ready, but the discovery of a faulty circuit board in the kill vehicle prompted Pentagon officials to order a lengthy bottom-up review of all components.

In mid-August, the missile interceptor was again set to go when technicians found a glitch in the booster’s flight computer. Replacing the computer created another delay.

In September, program officials announced yet another postponement after discovering modifications that had been made to the interceptor without thorough ground testing. . .[/quote] … Dec15.html

[quote]U.S. Missile Defense Again Fails Key Test
Tuesday, February 15, 2005

For the second time in as many months, the Bush administration’s new missile defense system failed to complete a key test yesterday, automatically shutting down a few seconds before an interceptor missile was to launch toward a mock enemy warhead. . .

Yesterday’s miscarried test was created to duplicate a Dec. 15 trial that also failed. Both tests were to have marked the first flights of the advanced interceptor missile. Earlier tests had used a slower, less sophisticated interceptor.

The latest tests called for the interceptor’s booster rocket to shoot into space and release a “kill vehicle” that closes in on a mock enemy warhead and destroys it in a high-speed collision.

In both recent tests, the mock enemy warhead was launched successfully from Kodiak, Alaska, but the interceptor failed to get off the ground. . .

Since 1999, the Pentagon has conducted 10 tests of the missile defense system, five of which have resulted in hits. But only the last two tests have used the actual interceptor designed for real-world missions; earlier tests employed surrogates.

David Wright, co-director in the global security program at the Union of Concerned Scientists, said in a statement that yesterday’s failure showed “the program is being pushed ahead for political reasons regardless of its capability.” . . .[/quote] … Feb14.html

Well, besides me, how about the General Accounting Office.

[quote]Auditors Fault Missile Defense Plans
Jun 1, 2006

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has spent about $91 billion since the mid-1980s to defend against enemy ballistic missiles, but it has no clear criteria for deciding to use the system and its operational costs remain unclear, the Government Accountability Office said on Thursday. . .

The GAO, the non-partisan, investigative arm of Congress, urged the Pentagon to draw up standards that each component and the overall ballistic missile defense system must meet before they can be used, just as other major weapons programs do.

It also recommended that the Department of Defense (DOD) set up a new structure to identify all the costs of operating the missile defense system, some of which are now being funded with research money, and report them to Congress. . .

“Without the ability to identify and assess total ballistic missile defense operational costs, neither DOD nor Congress has complete information to make funding and trade-off decisions among competing priorities,” the report said.

The Bush administration asked Congress for $10.4 billion in fiscal 2007 for all missile defenses, up from about $8.8 billion for the current year.

Combined spending on missile defense projects remained the costliest item in the defense budget. . . the GAO report was the latest in a string of critical reviews by various watchdog agencies. All see “serious deficiencies” with the program. . .

“They’re spending a lot of money, but no one has an idea of what it will do and … whether it will work” . . .[/quote]

So when I can order my Iraqi playstation or drive a Iraqi luxury sports car?

I thought reconstruction in Iraq was going to bring undreamed of benefits??

oh wait, we “make do with the army” that we got.

I support development of an anti-missile defense system though I acknowledge it’s not rational to pour money into it or overstate its capabilities because it’s a long-term project.

If and when it is operational though it will be ideal for defending against missile attacks by rogue states with lesser technology such as North Korea or Iran because our own technology can overcome the inherently disproportionate task of intercepting projectiles versus launching them.

I don’t understand why – if I understand the position of those who oppose ABM system development correctly – doing absolutely nothing to defend against potential missile attacks is somehow preferable.

I’m with spook- it’s worth spending some money on this, and they may even produce a useful system sometime in the future- say, 10 or 15 years.

Even then, though, the advantage still rests with the offense, but something is better than nothing.

The problem is that it’s been politically driven and consequently oversold. Notice the timing of when to put the system on alert- October 2004- gee, anything else happen right around then?

And some of the five successful tests were the result of putting beacons on the target- think the North Koreans will oblige?

They’d only have spent it on something equally as silly anyway. I’m all for liberating North Korea. Korean women are all fit as butchers’ dogs and the place is bursting at the seams with loads of yummy ex-commie Korean birds just gagging for a burly handsome Irishman to rush over and save them from nasty Kim Jong Ill or whoever.

Did I say that out loud? :blush:

[quote=“Lord Lucan”]They’d only have spent it on something equally as silly anyway. I’m all for liberating North Korea. Korean women are all fit as butchers’ dogs and the place is bursting at the seams with loads of yummy ex-commie Korean birds just gagging for a burly handsome Irishman to rush over and save them from nasty Kim Jong Ill or whoever.

Did I say that out loud? :blush:[/quote]
They sometimes wear those falling-down socks, too, I’ve heard. Oh dear! Now Lord Lucan’s gone orf!

He’s missing again?


Finally! Something we can all agree on. A job well done, lads – that is until Fred weighs back in and screws up the fragile detente we’ve managed with some hare-brained objections.


I note that you are too lazy to check. And where did I say that no Nazi scientists were involved. I was merely laughing that you were telling me about it. haha


So $91 billion and we have a system that could conceivably be used against the North Korean missile. Too bad that you are not so disappointed by the US$8.5 trillion and climbing war on poverty. How’s that doing then by your thoroughly objective standards. Regardless of whether the system is perfect right now, at least Reagan had the foresight to understand that one might be needed. Aren’t we all glad that despite its flaws, we have a system and that we are not starting from square one today?


Blah blah blah Iraq blah blah army that we have blah blah blah