ahh yes, driverless tech, I completely forgot about that one headhoncho. YES!
I’d be very surprised, disappointed if they don’t make the Taoyuan Aerotropolis completely driverless and/or electric.
chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati … roject.htm
Electric and in the near future, driverless, is a must for certain areas downtown where they can control pedestrian traffic and scooter traffic better
The ratio of Taiwanese complaining about scooters is much lower than foreigners complaining about scooters. Even the Taiwanese going to Western countries complain less. Western foreigners just complain a lot when things aren’t they way they want them to be; they have difficulty accepting life. This very much so is a foreigner issue.
Electric is an option in the future, but it’s a long way from being a feasible one now. However, it’s one of those things that’s slowly being phased in already. As of now, it still has problems and are really only good for grandmas and those going around their local neighborhood. Where do I charge my scooter when I take a trip on long trips? How long will I have to wait? How much power will it have going up inclines? How much slower will my commute to work be? How does carrying a passenger affect speed? And, despite your belief electric vehicles won’t be a drain on the power grid, it will be a huge uptick. It will require new power stations, because solar and wind are still inefficient. That, too, is in the future, but already being developed.
Scooters are an excellent option, and they always have been. The fact that other places are considering small personal transports means they always will be, too. Don’t fear them just because you don’t like them or can’t operate them very well. I’m worried about driverless cars at present, but they’re certainly possible in the future after massive improvements. Glitches and hacking alone make them a poor option at present, but we’ll have to wait and see–but a very long time on that front. You’re stuck with scooters because they’re the best solution. All of the “new” ideas you think you’re bringing up and debating are already being developed–and many of them still include small personal transports. They won’t go away just because you want them to.
Ahhhh, but can I at least dream about them going away? I do fear them. I’m scared of them. But your courage gives me strength
slow rain, because taiwan doesn’t have many sewers and people
Don’t notice the rivers smell like shit we shouldn’t say taiwan should have more sewers? That’s the essence of your argument? But then if I got my passport as a local that would be okay for me to say anything?
don’t get your logic to be honest. You’ve internalized all
That negative press to foreigners which has made your respond with illogical and defensive rants instead of reason.
electric scooter tech or electric bikes or just bikes just fine for 90% of users especially with a bit of carrot and stick from the government. scooters are responsible for a large part of urban air pollution, reasons enough to change from the current tech. Air pollution is the number one cause of early mortality in Asia. Not only that it severely degraded quality of life. What more needs to be said?
also solar is getting cheaper and mot efficient all the time, large parts of Southern and central taiwan could ‘farm’ solar rather than importing oil and coal to dirty the air that we breath. if they converted this semi arable and degraded land in SW Taiwan to solar farms the ground water extraction and salting problem would be lessened in Southern Taiwan. why not farm energy in a smarter way and provide income in poorer parts of Taiwan directly to locals?
exactly headhoncho. lung cancer number 1 and 2 causes of cancer death in men and women now in Taiwan. as you say, what more needs to be said?! If Jiayi locals can assemble and combat the 2.5PM problem, then dammit, we can do the same with scooters. Electric scooters would help solve air and noise pollution, but safety part needs to be debated. It’s a holistic approach - better buses and more bus use, more cars in certain areas, type of cars, etc, more MRT use, more bicycling, more walking, etc. Some are finding this line of reasoning complicated and unfeasible, but it’s probably happening already. One would have to look at the stats on numbers of scooters on the road going back each decade.
Many of us have lived here long enough to have seen the explosion in bicycle use, and growing MRT lines.
And yes, it’s soooooo boring, the old “foreigner has no right to tell Taiwan what to do” script. I would have thought we’d have gotten over this chestnut ages ago. Many live here, pay taxes, speak the language, raise kids, and so on.
Oh nonsense. When I lived in Taiwan my parents said they were constantly asked why (as in why would anyone from Canada choose to live in Taiwan) whenever they met Taiwanese (and living in Vancouver they met plenty). They were all aware how bad pollution levels were and most had no intention of ever returning.
The attitude your post exemplifies goes a long way to explaining why Taiwan lags behind all its Asian competitors.
As of now, no, electric tech is too far behind to get most to work in any reasonable amount of time. Please remember, for efficient traffic flow, you don’t want vehicles on the road for longer amounts of time. It would, I imagine, have the same effect as doubling the amount of vehicles on the streets, if one assumes electric scooters travel at half the speed of gasoline ones (which is my rough observation). Electric scooter tech just isn’t there yet. Bicycles are a no-go in summer for most people for obvious reasons of health and body odor. Also, read some tech articles. Solar, while promising, is still too far off to be a viable source of generating much electricity. That’s why it hasn’t been implemented yet, not because the government doesn’t know about it. That leaves coal, hydroelectric, and nuclear. Are you that naive that you don’t think the government hasn’t already looked into more methods for generating electricity by these methods either?
All vehicles contribute to air pollution, in addition to the factories here. How much more or less air pollution is caused by a single rider on a scooter going to work than a single occupant in a car going to work? Now factor in traffic volume based on the size of a car and the size of a scooter, and now you see why cars are not the solution you think they are. Nothing wrong with public transportation, and it is improving. Let it get there. However, you’re going to have to let go of this fixation you have on cars. For every two scooters that leave the road, one car has to go, too. For every two new electric scooters that are introduced, there must be one new electric car. There’s no way, in a democratic society, that the upper-middle class can expect to be immune to sacrifice simply because of their taxes. The upper-middle class will not be allowed to go to work faster in a more environmentally inefficient way while the working class languishes.
Taiwan lags behind its Asian competitors in only a few ways. Air pollution is one, but that’s not entirely a scooter problem, as has already been mentioned. However, something that’s missing from that comment is that Taiwan excels, not the least of which is fiscal policy. Life expectancy is also surprisingly high, considering the air quality and traffic concerns that have been mentioned in this thread. However, its healthcare alone is reason enough for any Canadian to want to move here.
And, no, foreigners don’t have the right to tell the locals what to do, no matter if we pay taxes or not. That’s not tolerable in any society, I don’t see why it should be an exception here just because you personally don’t like something. It’s up to the locals to do something about it. Respect that.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]slow rain, because taiwan doesn’t have many sewers and people
Don’t notice the rivers smell like shit we shouldn’t say taiwan should have more sewers? That’s the essence of your argument? But then if I got my passport as a local that would be okay for me to say anything?
don’t get your logic to be honest. You’ve internalized all
That negative press to foreigners which has made your respond with illogical and defensive rants instead of reason.[/quote]
I think you’re going to have to reword that or something to make it clearer what you mean so that I can respond. About the only thing I can address is the last line. I don’t think being illogical or lacking reason is the issue you have with my posts. It’s that you have a very specific view of how life should be lived and how things should be, and Taiwan challenges that. This has been, and always will be–for the foreseeable future, anyway–how Western foreigners act when they go to non-Western countries. I’m glad Taiwan doesn’t do things the way my country does, otherwise Taiwan would have the same problems my country does. (See how that works?)
Come on SlowRain, give it up man. Don’t take it too hard, culture shock is a bitch, we all go through it, I’m on stage 5 or 6, I can’t even keep track anymore.
You’re ranting incoherently, and sidetracking what could potentially be an interesting thread.
Cut your losses and move on. We’ll duke it out on another topic. You start one up while I sharpen my claws
The tech is there. In fact, some of the first cars were electric. It’s not a problem of power or speed, it’s a battery/fuel cell problem. Most electric scooters you see here are the cheap ones, because demand hasn’t made the premium batteries cheap enough. If you have any doubts, check what Tesla cars or Zero Motorcycles can do. They have more than enough power to throw around, and enough Km on a single charge to commute without worrying, which would be ideal for most users if applied to smaller scooters. The commuting scooters woulsn’t even need that much power, since the Zero is a motorcycle meant to be able to enter the highways, and the commuter scooters wouldn’t need that.
The government knows about it, but it’s too busy counting the money from the automotive industry and oil lobbies.
[quote=“SlowRain”]How much more or less air pollution is caused by a single rider on a scooter going to work than a single occupant in a car going to work? Now factor in traffic volume based on the size of a car and the size of a scooter, and now you see why cars are not the solution you think they are. Nothing wrong with public transportation, and it is improving. [/quote] Public transportation is getting there and it’s the way to go, but they need to improve it. There are still many areas with poor coverage, even in Taipei City.
Here’s a thought: In many European countries, when they were fed about the old gas-guzzling, smoke machines they drove, the governments put out plans to incentivate changing your old cars: you could give your old machine, and you would get a discount on the purchase of a new one, that was in line with the new pollution restrictions. The new, more eco-friendly ones also had cheaper taxes. People were literally lining up to see if they could get that deal. I’ve known people buying second-hand cars or bikes just to turn them in and get the discount on a new one. Being so in love with money, if the government did that but with nice, green, electric scooters, people would line up too. And if the local manufacturers started offering better alternatives, they would sell the commuter electric scooters as hot cakes.
I’d say that whoever pays taxes, has the right to complain about what the government is doing with the money they paid. Respect the money.
On the other hand, if you are the government and you don’t want foreigners expressing their opinions about what you do, it’s easy: don’t make them pay taxes, and if they complain, tell them “you don’t pay, so you don’t get to complain”. It’s that easy.
Anybody who has an ARC and is listed on a hukou is a local in my book. Need to get over your self belittling Slow rain. You are also plain wrong on electric tech and solar tech, you keep talking about the past. Parts of Taiwan couldn’t be MORE ideal for solar, with >300 days of direct sunshine a year and a wide range of local manufacturers of critical components.
Blaquesmith, I agree with a lot of what you say. What you mention is workable, but it also represents much broader thinking of the issue, both the problems and the solutions, than what has been mentioned so far. I disagree, however, that the automotive and oil lobbies are holding things up to any great extent, and paying taxes doesn’t qualify one to influence policy. That still has to be the privilege of citizenship.
SlowRain, I’m going to let you in on a little secret regarding foreigners and public policy in Taiwan which you might find rather interesting.
The various chambers of commerce in Taiwan - US, European, etc - write what’s called ‘position papers’ every year and assemble them into a book ranging from all aspects of life in Taiwan, business, trade, political, cultural, societal policies and others - and yes, even traffic. They deliver these books to the Taiwan government and advocate for change. Some position papers become policy, some don’t. Did you know that the drunk driving campaigns - billboards, etc - was one of these position papers?
Take a look at the ECCT ones
ecct.com.tw/publications_pos … =2&cseq=14
Foreigners have been for decades, and are now influencing policy in Taiwan
this place wouldn’t exist without big bro foreigner, Mel guo , keeping the other foreigners at bay. The entire existence of
This country depends on foreigners. If the foreigners didn’t buy Taiwanese made products and services then this place would return to being a 3rd world country.
Rubbish, complete rubbish, investors and residents in many countries exert great influence, as do regional and international trading partners.
And herein lies one of the problems to quick “big bang” change:
[color=#000080]"Almost half of Taiwanese workers plan to spend their retirement years overseas, with Canada, Japan and New Zealand the three most favored places, according to a survey released by HSBC Holdings PLC last week.
The survey — which polled 16,000 people in 15 nations — found that 44 percent of respondents in Taiwan plan to move after retiring. It also found that male respondents are more likely than females to change location.
“Most Taiwanese respondents seek quality of life through moving after they retire,” HSBC head of retail banking and wealth management in Taiwan Bonnie Qiu (邱靜怡) told a media briefing on Wednesday.[/color]
The ones with money “seek quality of life through moving” after they retire.
That’s survey makes me a bit sad, attitudes haven’t changed as much as I have thought, lack of love for ones homeland holds back things here. Bringing their capital overseas but leaving pollution here. I can see why people might have dreams like this,but it’s better to have dreams now rather than when your are old. Besides in the end the number who actually retire overseas must surely be in single digits of the people surveyed.
Yes, it’s more of a wish list I would think. Faced with cold hard reality of upping and leaving, I’m sure many back out
I’m always amazed by the reaction I get from “Why do you stay in Taipei?, Why don’t you go to China”, me - “Because it’s one of the best cities in the world”. I’ve left many Taiwanese speechless for an hour afterwards trying to process in their minds what they’ve just heard. Conflicted, troubled, confused look on their faces.
It was looking like the youth would rally, and we’d see some tipping point, out with old guard, in with the new blood. A patriotic surge. But looks like we’ll continue to get our drip drip change. Which is fine I guess, one way or the other.
Why doesn’t Taiwan just ban immigration? The population will continue to decline and the number of people using scooters will decline accordingly. There won’t be foreigners here to argue about propriety, and there will be less traffic congestion. It’s a win win. The only downside is there won’t be qualified spokespeople here to condensate the global standards of stewardship. Instead of electric scooters, Taiwan can invest in robots to push the elderly around in wheelchairs and teach the children English.
Don’t laugh too much, Japan already has robots that teach English, with a tie in to someone in the Philippines for the sounds.
Soon they won’t need us around
Don’t laugh too much, Japan already has robots that teach English, with a tie in to someone in the Philippines for the sounds.
Soon they won’t need us around[/quote]
Vibrators weren’t enough to replace all men, so I still have a chance :homer: Speaking of Japan, if robots get introduced in Taiwan anytime soon I’m guessing they’ll more likely have a tie in to someone in Japan for the sounds :lick: