My point is that most americans wouldn’t be the least bit bothered about extraditing some old Chinese scoundrel back to the ROC for trial – they wouldn’t think twice about whether he would receive a fair trial in Taiwan – but they would more likely be concerned if Taiwan were requesting extradition of a white American citizen who had allegedly committed crimes in Taiwan. Same as how white folks get in a huff about whiteys getting caned or executed in SE Asia for drug offenses, but they don’t even notice when it happens to Asian defendants. Isn’t that so?
Depends of when you say “Asian dependents” if they are also Americans.
Either way, we’re off topic. If the Taiwanese billionaire means nothing to the US then TW should push even harder to get him back. The US should stop being a safe haven to these clocksoakers. It’s not like he didn’t pay his Taiwanese taxes and bolted. According to the news, he cost every man woman and child in TW 7700NT. Someone has to pay for what he stole, I say let him pay, with his hide.
It’s not only the amount he stole, but the manner in which he did so - systematically draining every drop of money he could get his suckers into, including cleaning out his employees’ pension fund. It was thievery of a truly despicable dimension, inflicting loss and misery on tens of thousands of people. It’s in everyone’s interests that governments around the world cooperate in bringing such criminal vermin to justice.
I hope he is suffering maximum discomfort in the detention center, and has been shut up with the most fearsome, stinking, deranged and aggressive cellmates from hell. If he’s kept in there long enough while the immigration proceedings drag on, perhaps he might end up begging to be sent back to Taiwan (where a man of his means and connections should be able to ensure a luxurious enough incarceration, and will probably be able to get himself set free on bail).
Is Wang You-theng being made the scapegoat? Sure he is up to his neck and I would like to see him brought to justice. But it seems to me that the Rebar financial scandal was the work of many, not just Wang You-theng.
Government invested heavily, in the billions , had members appointed to the board and for 6 years not a single financial report was presented and yet nothing was done.
I hope those responsible for investing the money, have their bank accounts checked. That each and every instance of a government owned enterprise such as Taiwan Railway Administration (NT$8 billion investment) is checked to see who authorized, who was in charge and were any kickbacks made.
Or maybe the chase for Wang You-theng is more entertaining news. With the billions to be made in kickbacks and the number of loans and government businesses, it wouldn’t surprise me if a great deal of the politicians were neck deep. A skeptical person might say Su Tseng-chang is there to cover up, not to expose. Lets wait and see if everything is blamed on Wang You-theng , who will conveniently disappear and I think that will be your answer.
Ah, so Su has been pocketing billions filched from Rebar Group companies, eh? Of course it must be so! How could I not have seen it myself? Where’s Chiu Yi when you need him to call a press conference and expose Su’s filthy corruption? Let’s get the prosecutors onto him at once!
And how deviously clever of Su to appear to be orchestrating such intensive and determined efforts by the government to track the Wangs and bring them back to face justice, when he’s actually trying to help them disappear! It’s so frighteningly Machiavellian!
As you suggest, everything’s the fault of the DPP, and none of these terrible things would have happened if only that nice Mr. Lien or the good and upstanding Mr. Soong had taken up one or the other’s rightful position as president in 2000.
the guy is from the Standing Committee of the KMT… he even went to the LY the day before he run away to say hi to the LY speaker… do you need any more proof of how well covered his back was?
What this guy shows is that the old days of lending without a care (what in other countries would be called subsidies) are still not gone. It is true that it helped to develop the economy (same as having a money cheat on Simcity…), but the result is at show now, specially when there is no US money coming in like the ol’days…
Ah, so Su has been pocketing billions filched from Rebar Group companies, eh? Of course it must be so! How could I not have seen it myself? Where’s Chiu Yi when you need him to call a press conference and expose Su’s filthy corruption? Let’s get the prosecutors onto him at once!
And how deviously clever of Su to appear to be orchestrating such intensive and determined efforts by the government to track the Wangs and bring them back to face justice, when he’s actually trying to help them disappear! It’s so frighteningly Machiavellian!
As you suggest, everything’s the fault of the DPP, and none of these terrible things would have happened if only that nice Mr. Lien or the good and upstanding Mr. Soong had taken up one or the other’s rightful position as president in 2000.[/quote]
Yes yes, funny stuff indeed. But I think the point I raise is valid, the Taipei times ran an article a couple of weeks back showing to what extent the government invested either directly or through govenment businesses and to what extent they turned a blind eye to Rebar's finances. [asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.a ... ntid=61445](http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=61445) . Why?
Does Wang You-theng have political affilations and connections ? Certainly I was told he has flown with Chen Shui Bian on more than one occasion and just the day before he left Taiwan had a meeting with Wang Jin-pyn (posted by dearpeter earlier in the thread). Then he is allowed to leave Taiwan just before the scandal breaks.
Either we are looking at a super criminal mastermind able to makethe auhorities (all of them) appear dim witted and slow. Or there is culpable involvement from some high up members of government or some seriously powerful people able to pull strings.
Which do you think is more likely?
[quote=“Mick”]
Does Wang You-theng have political affilations and connections ? Certainly I was told he has flown with Chen Shui Bian on more than one occasion and just the day before he left Taiwan had a meeting with Wang Jin-pyn (posted by dearpeter earlier in the thread). Then he is allowed to leave Taiwan just before the scandal breaks.
Either we are looking at a super criminal mastermind able to makethe auhorities (all of them) appear dim witted and slow. Or there is culpable involvement from some high up members of government or some seriously powerful people able to pull strings.
Which do you think is more likely?[/quote]
political affiliations = Standing Committee of the KMT, also known as the guys who pull the chords
connections = read above, and don’t forget the guy owned a bank. Or can you explain me how a guy that comes to Taiwan and open a small plastic factory ends up with so many things? How many companies did this whole family owned???
[quote=“mr_boogie”][quote=“Mick”]
Does Wang You-theng have political affilations and connections ? Certainly I was told he has flown with Chen Shui Bian on more than one occasion and just the day before he left Taiwan had a meeting with Wang Jin-pyn (posted by dearpeter earlier in the thread). Then he is allowed to leave Taiwan just before the scandal breaks.
Either we are looking at a super criminal mastermind able to makethe auhorities (all of them) appear dim witted and slow. Or there is culpable involvement from some high up members of government or some seriously powerful people able to pull strings.
Which do you think is more likely?[/quote]
political affiliations = Standing Committee of the KMT, also known as the guys who pull the chords
connections = read above, and don’t forget the guy owned a bank. Or can you explain me how a guy that comes to Taiwan and open a small plastic factory ends up with so many things? How many companies did this whole family owned???[/quote]
Well that’s the spirit. I want to see those involved (from any party) named, find out who was in bed with this crook. Who was tipping him off, who authorized the checks and instructed those overseeing the finances to turn a blind eye.
Right now Su Tseng-chang is in charge of uncovering and bringing to justice those involved and up till now, I just don't see anything uncovered that everyone didn't already know, or could easily have figured out. Which is why I am saying a skeptic might think, if he is not uncovering much, maybe he is covering it up instead.well… the Standing Committee of the KMT is a good bed, I heard…
Patience, patience. The investigation is barely underway. How many details do you expect to be hearing at this point? The cops have certainly detained a lot of people, put dozens on a no-fly list, and required millions in bail from dozens more.
I think your skepticism at this point is based on habit, not logic.
On TV last night I was delighted to learn that Wang Scum-bag was sent to a decidedly “low-end” detention center in California. He will be living dormitory style for a few days along with dozens of Mexican illegal farm laborers, prostitutes and the like. Officials decided against putting him up in the more posh detention center that was available, perhaps thinking Wang could use some humbling. Bless their bureaucratic souls! :bravo:
You may be right, honestly I dont know. But this does cover the 6 year period that the DPP have been in power and one wonders who really is in the best position to pull stings.
Regarding the 8 billion payment made by the Taiwan Railway Administration. I dont know if this was the case in 2000 when the payment was made. But most articles I can see name Ho Nuan-hsuan (何煖軒) as the director-general of the TRA. Who is also Vice Minister of Transportation and Communications. A conflict in interest if ever I saw one.
a point well taken, and thank you, I’ll be more patient. This is a case where I would love to be proved wrong. Actually I have always had a good impression of Su Tseng-chang. I just got a bad feeling when at a time Chen Shui bian and himself were not on the best terms, he assigns Su Tseng-chang to this high profile case and says “go get the bad guys” . It’s like there’s an inside joke and someone is being set up. But i hope its just my paraniod nature instead, I’m quite willing to offer there is more than a good chance this is the case, and i hope so too.
I like Su as well (though I sort of support Hsieh for the prez candidacy). I hope he can succeed. It will be a very public-pleasing accomplishment for him if he catches Wang.
I massively applaud this piece of eloquence:
That is how I feel too.
About the fact that many others were complicit in the thievery, I hope many are punished for their sins. But I hope the fact (if it is a fact - I am supposing for sure) that Wang had everybody working to his own individual benefit (why was it just he who could escape the net?) shocks people deeply enough to question some of the mores of “the way things are done here in Taiwan.” I am speaking of the willingness to ignore the law in orger to play the guanxi game properly - to be willing to always cross lines if the person asking you to do it is “Big” enough.
I also wonder if this is not “Chinese culture” and that it may in fact not be “Taiwanese culture,” or less so. Just my wonderings, not quite my opinions yet.
I think that one guy stealing 8 billion (186M€) is a lot, but I can tell you of stories of guys who don’t own banks, are not big politicians (no matter how you look at him, he was a politician), and still can make 350M€-500M€ in debt to the VAT office in 2 years… That my friend… is a fraudster…
Anyway, one less crook in Taiwan, (insert a number here) left to go.
[quote=“mr_boogie”]I think that one guy stealing 8 billion (186M€) is a lot, but I can tell you of stories of guys who don’t own banks, are not big politicians (no matter how you look at him, he was a politician), and still can make 350M€-500M€ in debt to the VAT office in 2 years… That my friend… is a fraudster…
Anyway, one less crook in Taiwan, (insert a number here) left to go.[/quote]
I think the figure he is accused of stealing is 2 billion NT. The 8 billion NT was invested by the Taiwan Railway Administration and was only part of the overall losses which were something ridiculas like 150 billion or more, probably about the amout that could have purchased the delayed arms package from the States.
Although once your counting in the billions, it’s hard to imagine that much money, whatever it was, was a mountain of dough and what a scumbag, leaving his kids here to carry the can while he is sobbing and weeping, begging not to be sent back to Taiwan, absolutely shameless.
My point is that most americans wouldn’t be the least bit bothered about extraditing some old Chinese scoundrel back to the ROC for trial – they wouldn’t think twice about whether he would receive a fair trial in Taiwan – but they would more likely be concerned if Taiwan were requesting extradition of a white American citizen who had allegedly committed crimes in Taiwan. Same as how white folks get in a huff about whiteys getting caned or executed in SE Asia for drug offenses, but they don’t even notice when it happens to Asian defendants. Isn’t that so?[/quote]
There maybe be some truths to racial politics in the USA. But the fact of the matter is the guy in question is a Green Card Permenant Resident and not an actual citizen of the USA. His wife and children are USA citizens.
The media is having a field day with this guy. If half of what they say are true, he should just be happy they aren’t sending him to face the mobs.
There are unconfirmed reports now that the US will send Wang back. But it looks like just a rumour I guess. Here’s hoping…
Partial quote:
[quote]Repatriation of Wang uncertain
2007/2/22
The China Post staff
There is no information to confirm recent media reports that fugitive tycoon Wang You-theng will be repatriated back to Taiwan for trial from the U.S., according to officials at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
The officials said yesterday that the case concerning the Rebar Group founder, who is presently being held at the immigration detention center in San Pedro, California, has entered the judicial process and the government of the Republic of China respects the judicial procedure of the U.S.
Local media reported that several members of the American Congress led by Rep. Steve Chabot have helped make the arrangement for Wang’s repatriation.
Chabot is currently leading a group of Congress members on a visit to Taiwan.
But MOFA officials said they have no relevant and solid information.
…
But some legal experts pointed out that it is still too early to say if Wang will be sent back to Taiwan for trial because the first phase of the legal battle involves the judicial jurisdiction of the U.S.
Wang has been detained by U.S. immigration authorities since Feb. 2 for entering the country without valid travel documents after the ROC government revoked his passport.
He is most likely to take advantage of his wife’s status as a U.S. citizen to apply for family-based immigration and stay in the U.S. while his lawyer is seeking the court’s rejection to handle the case of scams involving Wang because the events did not take place on the American territory and there are no formal diplomatic ties between Taiwan and the U.S.[/quote]