There is a basic premise in western politics that you do not have a referendum unless you already know the outcome.
Most politicians who have supported a referendum that did not fall the way they expected are no longer politicians.
The Australian “republic” referendum is a landmark case. Not only did Prime Minister Howard ensure that he knew the answer – but he also ensured it was the answer HE wanted.
Maybe it is refreshing that Taiwan might have a referendum where the answer is not already known.
Maybe that’s because opinion polls in Taiwan and opinion polls in most western countries are of pretty different quality. Get the impression that opinion polls in Taiwan has results that totally depends on who polled, with results swinging 30~40%
[quote]There is a basic premise in western politics that you do not have a referendum unless you already know the outcome.
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I think everybody knows what the outcome will be. That is why the KMT and China are so strongly opposed to the refrendum idea. The people of Taiwan may finally figure out that they do have some control over there destiny, the outcome is obvious.
It’s quite interesting to watch the DPP strategy in this election campaign. Looks like they are actually managing to split the population in two camps.
For unification
For independence in the distant future
And they are trying to get China to do stuff that makes Taiwanese dislike the mainland to get voters to their camp.
A big boat of Taiwanese tourists drowned in China few years ago and no compensation was given. Now the Taiwanese government has decided to compensate the families of the drowned mainlanders that was trying to get smuggled into the country. The government then gives the impression that they are nice guys, but also makes Taiwanese curse the mainlanders even louder. Nice move! Wonder if it actually was deliberate?
I am wondering what can be the reaction of the international community and especially from United States and UE members if Chen Shui Bian succecced in his project to hold a referendum to turn the ROC into the Republic of Taiwan…?
Afterall if the “Taiwanese” people decide to proclaim a Republic of Taiwan, the others countries have to recognize it as a part of the World Community. The only thinks that bar Taiwan to be a member of the UN is the fact that they claim this seats on the name of ROC. Afterall this tiny Island is one of the rare full democraty on earth (make the count of the “real” democraty in this world, or even in Asia).
An other question is that the world community has recognized for years two Germany and still recognize two Korea, what bare the ROC to be a full member of the UN? Maybe the fact they claim the sovereignity on the mainland China territories.
I will be interested to hear your comments about those two questions
Hang on, run this past me again. Poagao, you’re a citizen, right, you did your military service . . . umm, why don’t you run for some kind of office. With ideas like these you’d get my vote. Oh shit, that’s right. I’ll never get one cause I don’t have the balls to do what you did. Damn.
Back to the intelligent questions.
Oh, and what a slimey bastard Howard is for that sham referendum!
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]. . . umm, why don’t you run for some kind of office. With ideas like these you’d get my vote. Oh shit, that’s right…
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Well, besides the fact that I couldn’t run on a “foreigner rights” campaign due to the fact that most of my supporters wouldn’t have the right to vote, running also requires a substantial amount of money…and even if I had that kind of moolah I’d probably just spend it elsewhere.
Consider this question—
"I am wondering what can be the reaction of the international community and especially from United States and UE members if Chen Shui Bian succecced in his project to hold a referendum to turn the ROC into the Republic of Taiwan…?
Afterall if the “Taiwanese” people decide to proclaim a Republic of Taiwan, the others countries have to recognize it as a part of the World Community. The only thing that bars Taiwan to be a member of the UN is the fact that they claim this seat on the name of ROC. Afterall this tiny island is one of the rare full democracies on earth (… just make the count of the “real” democracies in this world, or even in Asia…)."
I have to ask myself, why does the rest of the world have to recognize a referendum held in Taiwan? What specific international law requires that to happen? I mean, look at gay marriages…Canada recognizes them…the majority of the rest of the world does not… Isn’t Canada just a little bit bigger/more influential than Taiwan?
I agree that Canada is bigger and more influential than Taiwan.
But what does that have to do with Taiwan having a referendum? Certainly you are not suggesting that Taiwan should change its tactics and JOIN CANADA . . . . . . or are you???
Admittedly, it is an interesting idea. Would Taiwan become a self-governing territory of Vancouver Island???
I know at least three Taiwanese people who recently emigrated to Vancouver … so perhaps they could hold a referendum there about whether or not to allow Taiwan to become Canada’s newest province.
One needs to be on crack cocaine to vote YES on being part of Canada… hello high taxes, defunct health care, taxes, pork barrel politics, taxes, boondoggles, taxes…
I know plenty of Taiwanese families that have both Canadian and Taiwanese citizenship that would rather vote YES on China before they vote YES on being part of Canada.
No Marky, I am not suggesting Taiwan join Canada. I am just saying pointing out the fact that INHO a referendum would be nothing more than a waste of time and money. What would it accomplish? How would it influence the rest of the world? That is what my weak example about Canada was meant to show. Canada, a more powerful, larger nation, with more international influence (and is definitely considered a legitimate country), hasn’t changed other nations opinions of gay marriage - has it?
[quote]Certainly you are not suggesting that Taiwan should change its tactics and JOIN Canada . . . . . . or are you???
Admittedly, it is an interesting idea. Would Taiwan become a self-governing territory of Vancouver Island???[/quote]
Give me a break! Canadians still are trying to locate Baffin and Ellesmere islands and no one can even pronounce “Nunavut” without bursting into laughter.
The proposed referendum is non-binding. It is for reference and political gains.
Two things have occured to me, however. One is the nature of the questions – cutting the number of seats in the Legislature seems a valid question.
The fate of the Fourth Nuclear Power Plant, however, baffles me. The first delay was costly and now the thing is almost 50 percent finished. What is the point of asking the public on this? You might as well ask the public thinks the sun ought to rise in the north.
And the question on whether the ROC/Taiwan should be admitted into the WHO as an observer or as a full member (not yet made clear what the question will entail) is a joke. Who would vote against such a proposal?
Militarily, Taiwan could kick Canada’s ass six ways from Sunday.[/quote]
Depends on where the intended ass-kicking were to take place - and when. Taiwanese start to freeze up at about 12 degrees celcius. Canadians aren’t even coming out of the lake at that temperature, and we don’t even start waxing our snowboards until it hits zero.
The proposed referendum is non-binding. It is for reference and political gains.