Refusal to do Something on Religious Grounds: An Examination

Discussion Open Forum
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[quote]If She Won’t Scan the Bacon, Do I Get It For Free?

Power Line
Posted Mar 14th 2007 4:51PM by John Hinderaker
Filed under: Power Line, Religion, Islam
Some weeks ago, a national news story developed out of the fact that a number of Somali taxi drivers at the Twin Cities airport refused to transport passengers who possessed alcohol, claiming it would be a violation of Islamic law to do so. One curious aspect of the controversy was that the Islamic cab drivers themselves seemed to be split pretty evenly as to whether their religion imposes any such prohibition or not.

We here in Minnesota are on the firing line on these matters of religion. The latest controversy arises over the refusal of some cashiers to ring up sales of pork products:

Beryl Dsouza was late and in no mood for delays when she stopped at a Target store after work two weeks ago for milk, bread and bacon. So Dsouza was taken aback when the cashier -- who had on the traditional headscarf, or hijab, worn by many Muslim women -- refused to swipe the bacon through the checkout scanner.

"She made me scan the bacon. Then she opened the bag and made me put it in the bag," said Dsouza, 53, of Minneapolis. "It made me wonder why this person took a job as a cashier."

In the latest example of religious beliefs creating tension in the workplace, some Muslims in the Twin Cities are adhering to a strict interpretation of the Qur'an that prohibits the handling of pork products. Instead of swiping the items themselves, they are asking non-Muslim employees or shoppers to do it for them.

Once again, there doesn’t seem to be any consensus among the Muslims themselves on whether their religion bans scanning the bar code on a package of bacon and putting it in a bag. Somehow, I doubt that the Koran contains anything directly on point.
[/quote]
newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/03/14/i/

The comments are very interesting:[quote]
So you must also be opposed to pharmacists who refuse to fill prescriptions for birth control or morning-after pills on religious grounds?[/quote]

What would you NOT do, as in REFUSE to do because of your religious beliefs (and I’m speaking more of “normal” everyday activities, not murder or taking the Lord’s name in pain.)

Oh, and this was too funny to not quote:[quote]
Maybe we should put up a great wall of bacon between Iraq and Iran so we could stop the Iranians from supplying weapons.[/quote]

Me? I’m not a godly man, but I would never speak loudly in any house of worship. I treat them like libraries.

jdshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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[quote]Me? I’m not a godly man, but I would never speak loudly in any house of worship. I treat them like libraries. [/quote] But there’s a limit on many hymnals or bibles one person can steal, no? Sounds like you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

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One man’s “steal” is another man’s “locate and extract.”

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For what it’s worth in Malaysia the Muslim cashiers take a plastic bag to scan the non-halal goods and put them into the bag. No biggie there.

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Good question.
Hmm… off the top of my head I can’t think of anything that I wouldn’t do on strictly religious grounds. Anything that came up, I’d fell compelled to justify on other grounds.

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Ah, but then they’re not “making a point.” How are they going to get themselves into the newspaper if they just act normally?

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It’s hard for me to put myself into their mindset. Catholics, would you refuse to scan condoms? Religion-based teetotallers, Mormons and the like, would you refuse to scan things containing alcohol or tobacco?

Dog meat?

If the market sold pickled human embryos for hot pot, as a cashier, would you ask the customer to scan it for you? Would you don a bag like a glove to handle them?

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Why’s it hard to adopt the mindset? Think of something you would not do on principle, now imagine a religious justification for the principle.

Would you steal from a child?
Bed a married woman?
Do business with a raving loony racist?

In each case the refusal can take on a religious justification, but I don’t think it necessary to rely on religious motives. Hey, whatever makes you better to live with.

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[quote=“Jaboney”]Why’s it hard to adopt the mindset? Think of something you would not do on principle, now imagine a religious justification for the principle.

Would you steal from a child?
Bed a married woman?
Do business with a raving loony racist?
[/quote]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm…tough questions…I seem to do tha latter everyday. The other two, prolly not.

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But the prohibition is against consuming pork because it’s unclean, not against scanning it in a checkout line, right? There’s no prohibition against, say, killing a pig, or touching one, is there? I’m probably just way too ignorant of the particular prohibition here, so feel free to laugh at me. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Imagine the plight of religious folks who seek employment in hotels.

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[quote=“Dragonbones”]But the prohibition is against consuming pork because it’s unclean, not against scanning it in a checkout line, right? There’s no prohibition against, say, killing a pig, or touching one, is there? I’m probably just way too ignorant of the particular prohibition here, so feel free to laugh at me. :p[/quote]Yeah, but there’s always someone taking things too far. During Ramadan, Muslims aren’t supposed to eat or drink from sun up to sunset. Some yahoos go so far as to carry around a jar and spit out their saliva. Back home, some folks take the admonishment to observe the Sabbath pretty strictly. Don’t drive (except maybe to church if they live too far away), and don’t cook. So, after service they go out for lunch, and curse out the waitresses for working on the day of rest. :loco:

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Bwahahahahaha…don’t know too many Catholics in the US, do you? I don’t know any under the age of, say, 50, who aren’t using condoms, unless it’s because they’re using other methods of birth control or don’t need any. (Okay, that’s an exaggeration, but the truth is, many, MANY Catholics pay no more than lip service to their religion’s rules, if that. My husband is Catholic, but I won’t join, in large part because we have similar (actually pretty non-standard-Catholic) beliefs about points the Catholic Church makes a pretty big deal about, but as he is already “in the club”, he doesn’t have to say in so many words that he believes in all those things. I would have to do so in order to convert, and that’s not going to happen.)

You do have the ultra-conservative Catholics – like friends of ours up by Buffalo – I was a bit surprised they showed up at our wedding as it was held in the Masonic Lodge, which of course is a completely evil organization as far as they’re concerned.

On the Muslim cashier issue, though, it seems stupid to me that some Johnny-come-lately I’m-going-to-make-a-point folks in the US seem to think they have to be holier than those living in Muslim countries. Probably a case of no media, no problem.

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Personally, I completely disagree with anyone taking a job when the principles of their religion or ethics would prohibit them from performing the duties required for that job. As such, if pharmacists can’t dispense some prescriptions because their religion doesn’t allow it, they should take a different career path. Same goes for these Muslims - find a different line of work. I hold the same standard to myself - I’m strict vegetarian, and so I would never take a job that would require me to handle any kind of food. It would inevitably require me to handle or serve meat, and I can’t do that and be in line with my own ethical guidelines.

Could I ask someone else to do it for me and not get laughed out of work? I doubt it. I would expect to be fired, and I would deserve it if I knowingly took a job I could not perform. And as far as I know, that’s the same standard the courts hold in the US - if a religious belief actually interferes with the completion of the job, failing to hire someone or firing them based on it is completely legal.

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Oh and on another note, about the great wall of bacon idea, wouldn’t that be a good way to separate the orthodox Jews from the Muslims and solve that other regional conflict that’s been going a while? Too bad they have rockets they’d probably keep launching over the top.

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Bwahahahahaha…don’t know too many Catholics in the US, do you? [/quote]

:laughing: I was raised Catholic, in Mexico and the US. I brought it up as a talking point, already knowing the answer. Heck, my parents are ULTRAconservative Catholics on all the points I can think of, and I found condoms in my dad’s drawer once, so…

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DB -
Your parents were Pro-Life…and you?

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I wouldn’t take the job knowing I would be required to handle such things. If a Muslim butcher decides not to sell pork products in his shop, that’s business. Workers who accept jobs knowing what is expected of them should either :stfu: or find other jobs.


You Muzwims is so cwazy!

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[quote=“TainanCowboy”]DB -
Your parents were Pro-Life…and you?[/quote]

Being pro-choice (i.e., believing that religion has little place in legislation or the judiciary) is not the same as being anti-life.

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semantics.