Because you are stupid…
Any other tough questions to ask today? I refer you to Broon Ale… Who knows, I think.[/quote]No, no that’s not it. Ignorant, often, but not stupid. Actually, I think it has something to do with you.
Finally, we are in agreement. So let’s just leave it at that shall we? hahah
Ignorance? It’s taken you this long to clue in to that? Damn, I take it for granted that most of us are ignorant on most subjects, most of the time. You don’t? Wow, that really is stupid.
Some of the items in the OP that have not as yet been discussed.
[quote]Iraqi Forces
Iraqi forces continue to improve, and are expected to be able to operate “virtually free of coalition help” sometime in 2007:
[i]Iraqi Security Forces are on track to take care of their own security and combat operations virtually free of Coalition support within the next year, Multi-National Force - Iraq's spokesman told reporters Tuesday.
“The Iraqi Security Force is making progress toward ensuring that Iraq’s future will be determined by Iraqis who want unity and prosperity, and not by outside forces who seek to sow chaos and discord,” Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV said during an operational update briefing at the Combined Press Information Center here.[/i]
In two raids, Iraqi forces, backed by U.S. soldiers, captured 20 people suspected of planting or manufacturing IEDs. One raid, in the town of Habaniyah, nabbed 15 terrorists with ties to al Qaeda.
The Iraqi Army captured two terrorist in Mosul after they planted an IED. One of the suspects admitted to being responsible for many of the IED attacks in the area.
Iraqi police captured two terrorists with links to al Qaeda during a raid in the town of Bahbahani. The two were responsible for IED attacks against coalition and Iraqi forces and the kidnapping and murder of Iraqi civilians.
During an airborne assault operation, Iraqi special forces captured the al Qaeda leader responsible for the kidnapping and murder of two U.S. servicemen:
[i]"The battered and booby-trapped bodies of the two missing soldiers were found three days later. They had been tortured," the Army Times said.
The Army Times said the captured suspect had discussed the incident "during the showing of a video CD at a Yousifiyah mosque that allegedly showed the kidnapping of the U.S. soldiers."[/i]
On December 20, U.S. forces handed over security responsibilities in Najaf Province to the Iraqis. Three of Iraq’s 18 provinces are now under Iraqi control.[/quote]
More in article at link in OP.
TC,
All of this good news from Iraq is well-received. But none of the information you’ve posted is really demonstrative of long-term victory, is it?
OK…35 new prisoners. I don’t think anybody is arguing that U.S. forces don’t achieve small victories.
Alright…so 2 more prisoners, one of them responsible for “many” IED attacks. Constructing and planting IEDs isn’t exactly rocket science…2 weeds down, 2 more to take their places. Kudos to our soldiers, but once again, a small gain.
Yes…2 more prisoners.
Excellent. But al-Qaeda “leaders” are a dime a dozen.
Wasn’t Najaf one of the four provinces polled that found 90% of its residents think the US invasion has made Iraq worse off? Doesn’t matter really, because I doubt very seriously everything is going to be peaches and cream now that Iraqi forces have taken over. Do you? By the way, I do think this is “progress”, but not in the sense you do. I’m happy whenever I heard our forces are leaving an area of Iraq and leaving them to their own devices.
Gao -
Unfortunately I don’t do “crystal-ball” gazing. Its 1 day at a time reality that has to be dealt with.
Some more from the link…as yet un-commented upon progress.
[quote]On December 20, U.S. forces handed over security responsibilities in Najaf Province to the Iraqis. Three of Iraq’s 18 provinces are now under Iraqi control.
Iraqi forces captured ten insurgents near Fallujah. Two of the detainees are suspected of having ties to al Qaeda.
Near Musaiyib, Iraqi special police forces captured an IED maker, as well as the commander of the IED cell.
The 2nd Iraqi army division assumed responsibility for security operations in Mosul:
[i]The 2nd IA successfully completed the final validation exercise on December 4th and have moved forward to full autonomy of operations and independence of maneuver in their battle space.[/i]
The 2nd IA is led by Major General Jamal, who said:
[/i]“Terrorists have been at work attempting to ‘kidnap’ Iraq. They target and kill the scientists, the teachers, and the thinkers, attempting to divide us along sectarian lines. Brothers and friends, it is time to track down and kill the terrorists. Mosul is a city of a civilization blessed by God. Let us pray to God to bring security and stability to all of our country.”[/i]
Iraqi army special forces captured three members of a murder and kidnapping cell in Sadr City. The IA forces received small arms fire when leaving the area, and stood their ground, returning fire and neutralizing the threat.
During a raid in Baghdad, Iraqi Army forces captured two terrorist responsible for making IEDs and for training others in how to prepare IEDs. Seven others were detained.
Iraqi army forces led the search of a mosque in Hit after receiving small arms fire from the building. The search yielded IED materials, and three suspects were detained.
During a raid in Tikrit, soldiers of the 5th IA Division captured four members of a weapons-smuggling ring, and uncovered a large weapons cache:
[i]The cache consisted of nearly 100 rounds of machine gun ammunition, six rocket propelled grenades, five grenades, IED making materials, anti-Iraqi propaganda and three stolen cars.[/i]
The leader of an insurgent cell was captured by Iraqi soldiers during a raid in Suwayrah. The cell leader is a suspect in several violent attacks against Iraqi forces and civilians.
During a three-day recruiting drive in Ramadi, over 400 Iraqis signed up to join the Iraqi police.
Iraqi special forces captured four leaders of an insurgent cell responsible for murder, kidnapping, and IED attacks against Iraqi police and civilians.
Iraqi army forces captured a senior al Qaeda leader during a raid in Fallujah:
[i]Special Iraqi Army forces, with coalition advisers, captured a terrorist leader during a raid Dec. 7 in Fallujah responsible for directing sniper, improvised explosive device and car bombing attacks against Iraqi security forces. He also participated in the abduction and execution of several Iraqi Police officers.[/i]
Acting on tips received from residents of the al Doura neighborhood in Baghdad, Iraqi police captured two weapons caches, and detained six over a two day period.
More story at links[/quote]
ERBIL, Iraq, Jan. 11 — American troops backed by attack helicopters and armored vehicles raided an Iranian diplomatic office in the dead of night early Thursday and detained as many as six of the Iranians working inside.
…
There was a tense standoff later in the day between the American soldiers and about 100 Kurdish troops, who surrounded the American armored vehicles for about two hours in this northern Iraqi city.
…
“These kinds of actions are totally unacceptable and the Kurdish leadership is very angry,” said Fuad Hussein, the spokesman for the president of the semiautonomous territory, Massoud Barzani. Mr. Hussein called the raid an “abduction.”
…
The standoff began around 11 a.m. in Einkawa, a pleasant and predominantly Christian suburb of Erbil where many Western officials live and keep offices. Possibly angered by the earlier raid, the Kurdish forces refused to let several American Humvees through a checkpoint.
“It was the Americans’ fault,” said a Kurdish guard from the checkpoint, who refused to give his name. “We asked them to stop but they did not stop. That is why we pointed our guns at each other.”
The standoff, while tense, was carefully controlled by the Kurds. The American who witnessed it said that as the lines of traffic lengthened on the blocked road, the Kurds began waving cars through and they drove directly past the stopped Humvees.[/quote]
And the Kurds are the friendly Iraqis.
So, currently the US is confronted by a Sunni insurgency- 20% 0f the population. The new escalation is supposed to take on al-Sadr; if Bush moves on his threats against Iran that will bring in the Badr Brigades and SCIRI.
And now they’re riding roughshod over the Kurds.
Looks like they’ll be able to finally unite all the Iraqi people…
[quote]ERBIL, Iraq, Jan. 11 — American troops backed by attack helicopters and armored vehicles raided an Iranian diplomatic office in the dead of night early Thursday and detained as many as six of the Iranians working inside.
…
There was a tense standoff later in the day between the American soldiers and about 100 Kurdish troops, who surrounded the American armored vehicles for about two hours in this northern Iraqi city.
…
“These kinds of actions are totally unacceptable and the Kurdish leadership is very angry,” said Fuad Hussein, the spokesman for the president of the semiautonomous territory, Massoud Barzani. Mr. Hussein called the raid an “abduction.”
…
The standoff began around 11 a.m. in Einkawa, a pleasant and predominantly Christian suburb of Erbil where many Western officials live and keep offices. Possibly angered by the earlier raid, the Kurdish forces refused to let several American Humvees through a checkpoint.
“It was the Americans’ fault,” said a Kurdish guard from the checkpoint, who refused to give his name. “We asked them to stop but they did not stop. That is why we pointed our guns at each other.”
The standoff, while tense, was carefully controlled by the Kurds. The American who witnessed it said that as the lines of traffic lengthened on the blocked road, the Kurds began waving cars through and they drove directly past the stopped Humvees.[/quote]
And the Kurds are the friendly Iraqis.
So, currently the US is confronted by a Sunni insurgency- 20% 0f the population. The new escalation is supposed to take on al-Sadr; if Bush moves on his threats against Iran that will bring in the Badr Brigades and SCIRI.
And now they’re riding roughshod over the Kurds.
Looks like they’ll be able to finally unite all the Iraqi people…
Nice hijack attempt MikeN…but…getting back on topic.
Someone was alluding to ‘construction/re-construction’ and the training of indigs for this work. Here are a couple of article I came across that show the status of this in Iraq.
Iraq Reconstruction Report Focusing on Construction & Sustainment - 01.13.07 Iraq this is a PDF file.
Multi-National Force in Iraq - Reconstruction Report this page has numerous links to contruction/reconstruction projects.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Gao -
Unfortunately I don’t do “crystal-ball” gazing. Its 1 day at a time reality that has to be dealt with.
Some more from the link…as yet un-commented upon progress.
[quote]On December 20, U.S. forces handed over security responsibilities in Najaf Province to the Iraqis. Three of Iraq’s 18 provinces are now under Iraqi control.
Iraqi forces captured ten insurgents near Fallujah. Two of the detainees are suspected of having ties to al Qaeda.
Near Musaiyib, Iraqi special police forces captured an IED maker, as well as the commander of the IED cell.
The 2nd Iraqi army division assumed responsibility for security operations in Mosul:
[i]The 2nd IA successfully completed the final validation exercise on December 4th and have moved forward to full autonomy of operations and independence of maneuver in their battle space.[/i]
The 2nd IA is led by Major General Jamal, who said:
[/i]“Terrorists have been at work attempting to ‘kidnap’ Iraq. They target and kill the scientists, the teachers, and the thinkers, attempting to divide us along sectarian lines. Brothers and friends, it is time to track down and kill the terrorists. Mosul is a city of a civilization blessed by God. Let us pray to God to bring security and stability to all of our country.”[/i]
Iraqi army special forces captured three members of a murder and kidnapping cell in Sadr City. The IA forces received small arms fire when leaving the area, and stood their ground, returning fire and neutralizing the threat.
During a raid in Baghdad, Iraqi Army forces captured two terrorist responsible for making IEDs and for training others in how to prepare IEDs. Seven others were detained.
Iraqi army forces led the search of a mosque in Hit after receiving small arms fire from the building. The search yielded IED materials, and three suspects were detained.
During a raid in Tikrit, soldiers of the 5th IA Division captured four members of a weapons-smuggling ring, and uncovered a large weapons cache:
[i]The cache consisted of nearly 100 rounds of machine gun ammunition, six rocket propelled grenades, five grenades, IED making materials, anti-Iraqi propaganda and three stolen cars.[/i]
The leader of an insurgent cell was captured by Iraqi soldiers during a raid in Suwayrah. The cell leader is a suspect in several violent attacks against Iraqi forces and civilians.
During a three-day recruiting drive in Ramadi, over 400 Iraqis signed up to join the Iraqi police.
Iraqi special forces captured four leaders of an insurgent cell responsible for murder, kidnapping, and IED attacks against Iraqi police and civilians.
Iraqi army forces captured a senior al Qaeda leader during a raid in Fallujah:
[i]Special Iraqi Army forces, with coalition advisers, captured a terrorist leader during a raid Dec. 7 in Fallujah responsible for directing sniper, improvised explosive device and car bombing attacks against Iraqi security forces. He also participated in the abduction and execution of several Iraqi Police officers.[/i]
Acting on tips received from residents of the al Doura neighborhood in Baghdad, Iraqi police captured two weapons caches, and detained six over a two day period.
More story at links[/quote][/quote]
TC,
Once again, all good news, but nothing indicative of long-term victory. I agree with Fred that the Sunni insurgency is no longer a serious threat to the new government, but it is hardly vanquished. Coalition forces are still periodically attacked, and Shia-Sunni violence continues unabated. Thousands of Iraqi soldiers and police officers moonlight as sectarian militia-men and the government is run by hypocrites who denounce militias and yet belong to political parties with para-military wings. Sunni members of the administration and legislature continuously threaten to abandon the government altogether, and Saudi Arabia has already declared they will help their Sunni brethren in the event of a civil war. There is no question that Iran will assist the Shias. In fact, Iranian soldiers have already been captured in Iraq and I don’t think anyone seriously doubts that the Saudis are already aiding the Sunni insurgency. Coalition forces capturing a couple hundred enemy fighters hardly counterbalances these facts.
What do feel are our long-term goals in Iraq? Do you feel we are making progress towards those goals? Are they worth the cost in lives and resources?
Gao
Bare minimum, the US is the ultimate security guarantor for any government in Iraq at present and will remain so for the forseeable future. IF we were cynical enough, we could pull our troops out to the desert and let the Iraqis kill themselves in the hundreds of thousands. We will not do that and this is why we are trying to restore security to Baghdad. Again, 80 percent of all deaths in the country are occurring within 30 miles of Baghdad. The rest of the country is far more secure. The attention to Baghdad is natural but it does not as usual give the complete picture. Blame the media. Blame the networks for 24 hour news coverage that focuses attention on the most lurid details or blame the media consumer for having such a limited attention span and willingness to understand complicated information.
The question all along has been whether this is a localized effort or a regional one. I subscribe to the latter. Therefore, I and others have been flabbergasted at Bush’s inability to go after Syria and Iran. We will have to wait and see if this is the opening salvo in a real effort to rein these two nations and their very visible forces in once and for all. I am not confident but at least the arrest of the five in Erbil is a start.
Despite the Bush administration’s best efforts to mislead it, the American citizenry did get around to understanding complicated information, which is how we got to the recent mid-term elections. Perhaps it is GOPpers in denial who have the limited attention spans now, forgetting that American voters overwhelmingly don’t think Bush even has a plan for what to do in Iraq.
Lack of troops, especially given that we’re quagmired in Iraq. Perhaps it’s time for the war’s most vocal supporters to sign up to fight so that Bush can fulfill their grand designs for a middle eastern oil empire. I’ve been trying to figure out a colorful way to express it, but “put your money where your mouth is” doesn’t quite fit a situation where one’s ass is on the line. Perhaps GOPpers can “put their asses where their mouths are”, but that also doesn’t seem right somehow…
Bombs work too.
Snicker snicker.
Well, then why not put your ass where your mouth is (redundant apologies) and tell us what the Democrat plan is. Should be no problem since the American citizenry understood that, er, “message.”
Go ahead, and no cutting and pasting from the Democrat web site again. No wait. Please do cut and paste and then tell us how to “interpret” those “positions.”
But buddy, you all are in charge now so lead the way (smirk, snicker, galumph).
hahaha
???
Did you swallow your tongue fred? 
???
Did you swallow your tongue fred? [/quote]
I think he just put his mouth where [something] was…
Is that right, Fred? Did you sign up to serve?
How do you know that I am not already serving MFGR? eh? haha
Just to cfm that the galumph to my knowledge is used as a gagging reaction. I think what caused it was finally digesting MFGR’s words and the Democrat “positions” on the war in Iraq. Actually, the Dems should have their own clock like the one used to keep track of the world’s population or the one to keep track of the deficit or the one used to keep track of “those served” at McDonald’s to keep track of all their policy flipflops and “reinterpretations.” How’d that be… galumph…
Ya think? You’d know all about gagging wouldn’t you, Mr. Fluff Smut. Biggest discount of any Republican Abroad membership it is rumoured.
BroonArgh
[quote]Ya think? You’d know all about gagging wouldn’t you, Mr. Fluff Smut. Biggest discount of any Republican Abroad membership it is rumoured.
BroonArgh[/quote]
No need to discuss rumors or “talk in tongues” for that matter. I will willingly cfm right here and now that during my fluffing of Broon Ale, the lack of er equipment sported by said individual made the subject of gagging a superfluous one. In fact, the thought: Why he couldn’t gag a fly came to mind… Now, where are my dinars studmuffin? Of course, perhaps I should say muffin stud because you are after all more muffin than… oh never mind…
But, but… this means that running everything out of the Pentagon doesn’t work. That would mean gasp that Rumsfeld was WRONG; the military isn’t the solution to everything. Jeez… if the State Department is ducking out, what chance of getting anyone else who was kept out, or driven out, to step in and help clean up this mess?
[quote=“NYT: Military Wants More Civilians to Help in Iraq”]Senior military officers, including members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have told President Bush and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates that [b]the new Iraq strategy could fail unless more civilian agencies step forward quickly to carry out plans for reconstruction and political development.
The complaints reflect fresh tensions between the Pentagon and the State Department over personnel demands that have fallen most heavily on the military. But they also draw on a deeper reservoir of concerns among officers who have warned that a military buildup alone cannot solve Iraq’s problems, and who now fear that the military will bear a disproportionate burden if Mr. Bush’s strategy falls short.[/b]
Among particular complaints, the officers cited a request from the office of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that military personnel temporarily fill more than one-third of 350 new State Department jobs in Iraq that are to be created under the new strategy.
At a Senate hearing on Tuesday, Mr. Gates made clear that he shared the officers’ concerns, telling senators, “If you were troubled by the memo, that was mild compared to my reaction when I saw it.”
To back up his point, Mr. Gates also told senators that Mr. Bush himself had addressed his cabinet at the White House on Monday about the need for civilian agencies to “step up to the task.”
[…]
The mounting tensions between the Pentagon and other departments are in some ways the mirror image of those that roiled the government before the 2003 invasion. Then, State Department officials grumbled that the Pentagon was usurping its role in planning the postwar civilian occupation; today, the military is eager to see others step in.
State Department officials say they are using both incentives and subtler pressures to induce employees to go to Iraq.
But from the standpoint of personal security, taking those jobs — many of them, by definition, outside the relative safety of the Green Zone — is widely seen as an unattractive career option.[/quote]
“Unattractive Career Option”, how’s that for a shocking headline?
Unattractive, short-term life option, more like it.