Yes, a cult of, what, like seven protesters at the renaming site? The KMT administration ended in 2000; I seriously doubt there is a significant portion of society today who actually worship CKS. Know of him? Yeah, quite a few. Don’t despise him as much as you do? Again, lots. But worship? Come on.
I’m sure that George Washington also had a great many fault, yet his momument is still standing in DC.
The point is why is it only during election years the DPP gets all uppity about history they barely understand. Pandering to the least educated in Taiwan in a bid for their votes.
Seriously, locking up a statue in the middle of “democracy” park, sounds kind of desperate if you ask me.
When will CSB get it through his ego that he will never even accomplish half the things CKS was able to accomplish. His face will never grace the ROC currency. And he will not even be revered as the “father” of his own children. The guy is a complete failure as a leader.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
When will CSB get it through his ego that he will never even accomplish half the things CKS was able to accomplish. His face will never grace the ROC currency. And he will not even be revered as the “father” of his own children. The guy is a complete failure as a leader.[/quote]
Well maybe he should declare martial law, and kill, torture and imprison those who oppose him. Apples and oranges, AC.
My main objection to this (the re-naming of entities and the physical changes to the CKS Memorial) is the strong-arm tactics that are being used to implement the changes. They are essentially unilateral, moving to implement a controversial and unsettled initiative with blitzkrieg force with no opportunity allowed for actual debate, either in the public forum or in the legislature (which I understand is KMT-dominated, but seemingly powerless to stop the CSB runaway train).
If the KMT initiated the idea of changing the names, I would support the moves more because I would see it as a national consensus having been reached, rather than unilateral political strong-arming. But the way I see it, the current renaming campaign is little more than CSB’s desperate attempt to put his mark on Taiwan. Notice how it’s come to a head: after going after companies like China Petroleum and then moving on to CKS Airport, they have homed in on their final prize - the CKS Memorial and the graves of CKS and CCK - in the final months of CSB’s rule. I expect to see China Airlines in the sights in the next few months.
That said, some name-changes are ones I support, such as restoring the names of certain towns to their original pre-KMT/pre-Japanese names.
Chris, Chris, Chris. I slaughtered all your second rate notions on our hike. Why do you keep this up? 
Kidding aside, I think most of us agree that a move that was meant to air the dirty laundry of the KMT has instead soiled the wrong party.
Imagine a national debate started on this very issue; and now around election time. Imagine using that debate to tell the real and bloody history of CKS and the KMT in Taiwan. Imagine the disgust one could generate (again around election time) for the opposition.
Instead, while the DDP base has perhaps been invigorated, the general public is angry again at the wrong group. Instead of considering CKS’s blood-letting, the focus is on CSB’s imcompetence and heavy handedness.
CSB and George Bush should get along better than they do. Both men seem preternaturally skilled at turning a moral and politcal advantage into a talking point for their enemies.
Democrats in the US blaming today’s Republicans for the anti-communist witch hunts of the 1950s, with one prominent Democrat official saying he has a list in his pocket of current republican leaders who perpetrated the movement, to me would be a better analogy.
[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“ac_dropout”]
When will CSB get it through his ego that he will never even accomplish half the things CKS was able to accomplish. His face will never grace the ROC currency. And he will not even be revered as the “father” of his own children. The guy is a complete failure as a leader.[/quote]
Well maybe he should declare martial law, and kill, torture and imprison those who oppose him. Apples and oranges, AC.[/quote]
Or maybe CSB could take on the USA immigration rule to relax H1-B visa for ROC nationals in the USA. CKS single handedly got the entire Chinese Exclusion Act repealed.
CSB pales in comparision to CKS in term of the scope of the projects he undertakes to uplift the lives of the people he is suppose to lead.
To which the obvious reply is:
CSB pales in comparison to CKS is terms of the scope of the projects he has undertaken to take away the lives of the peope he is supposed to lead.
Not really considering the suicide rate in Taiwan has been significantly up since CSB leadership. I would hazard to guess they are now in the same ball park in terms of number of lives they are indirectly responsible for ending.
As if suicide=murder… there you go, one more trolling…
Even if the MOE wants to put in their books the truth about CKS and the KMT, half of the country will go awry against it. Remember, that only part of the country even respects the Executive, for what I see…
Suicide is worst than murder in the Christain world.
If the MOE would print the truth about CSB, I’m sure TI supporters would also wither away.
[quote]The KMT’s Chiang-centered personality cult, alas, is alive and well and still festering at the center of the KMT.
[/quote]
Heh! Chiang Jing-kuo’s bastard spawn has set up a campaign office just down the road from my office. A veritable peanuthead shrine!
[quote=“ac_dropout”]Suicide is worst than murder in the Christain world.
If the MOE would print the truth about CSB, I’m sure TI supporters would also wither away.[/quote]
What on earth are you blathering abotu now? It is worse for the individual who commits suicide. Society, and certainly not the government, are not held accountable for the sin.
This is really a new low for you, ac. CSB is not the parent or friend of these people. He is the president and any suggestion that he is responsible for the increase in the suicide rate is a sign of just how unhunged blue supporters can be. Poagao, do you really want to be associated with such nutballs?
Whatever mental problems these suicide victims had probably started back in school under a soul crushing system that tells students they are worthless unless they excel at memorization.
It festered under a Confucian moral system where individuals are prevented from feeling like autonomous beings who are in control of their fate. It was nourished in the sick and decaying garden of traditions that keep the young under their parents’ control and the adult under their boss’s control. It reached full growth when the realization came that there was no way in this society to admit to depression, fear, anxiety, unhappiness, and hopelessness.
If you want to blame anything, blame Chinese people for not modernizing fast enough and for still stigmatizing mental illness.
I took a stroll through the memorial today, noting the dents in the new metal “Taiwan Democracy Memorial Hall” signboards.
But what struck me, besides the grossness of the grandious design of the place (it has that stink of oppression you feel all over Beijing’s great historical works) was how orderly the place is. Nice planted trees and shrubs, decent materials used in the construction, or at least decently maintained.
If the Chiang era had left Taiwan in such an orderly state one could reasonably make an argument that the legacy of father and son,despite its obvious odious side, is one that should be respected. Such arguments are made in favor of Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore. Despite ruling autocratically, he left a poor, dirty backward country with the highest standard of living in Asia. He left it prosperous but equaly important, clean, beautiful, well run, and relatively free of corruption.
What can the Chiang era claim? Taiwan is far uglier, dirtier, than it was when the KMT arrived. GDP is higher but it was achieved stupidly, with no planning for the future. Factories were allowed to be built beside rice fields, filling them with heavy metals and other contaminants. Rivers were used as garbage dumps. No sewage lines were put in place so that at the turn of the millenium about 5% of the country was hooked up, having massive consequences for the environment.
Taiwan has stunningly beautiful countryside marred in so many places by uregulated development. This is the legacy of the Chiang era.
Rural towns and small cities are filthy eyesores. This is the legacy of the Chiang era.
Taiwan’s big cities are little better. They have poor infrastructure, terrible design, few open spaces. This is the legacy of the Chiang era.
Taiwan’s government is corrupt and its court system weak. This is the legacy of the Chiang era.
The Chiang’s did not develop this country in many ways that deserve praise. They could have done so much better with only minimal effort. They simply didn’t give a shit and it shows.
As opposed to the nutballs on the other side? Do Mr. Boogie’s inanities make more sense than ACDropout’s rantings to you? Same shit, different sides.
Mucha Man,
You speak of suicide like an atheist.
Suicide rates are up in Japan and Taiwan, societies that want to de-sinify.
Whereas suicide rates are not up dramatically in HK, Singapore, or China; societies that clearly happy to be predominately Chinese.
I can clearly then just make a claim that degree of Sinification is inversely proportional to suicide rates.
CKS also tried to internationalize Taiwan, so that foreigners can freely walk about the island and earn a living as well. This is a legacy of the Chiang Era.
CKS also pure untold millions into Western Universities to promote Chinese culture among acedemics. Some of those acedemics took those opportunities to come to Taiwan for intellectual exchanges. This is a legacy of the Chiang Era.
TI supporters go on and on about how terrible CKS was, as if they could do any better under the circumstances. It’s been 8 years under this TI Moses that was suppose to deliver Taiwan to the promise land.
To complain about an administration that was 4 presidency ago, seems so mature and forward thinking of any leader.
Hello, Chiang did protect Taiwan from becoming commie, so people today can rant all they want. 
Roughly 75% of suicides in Taiwan are by the elderly. Some possible reasons.
[quote]In our study, only a positive correlation between temperature and suicide rates was found in the ARIMA model after adjusting for trend and other seasonal factors. That is, temperature was the only climatic variable noted in the present study which had a primary influence on suicide and was not mere recurrence in line with the seasons. This finding is in accordance with previous studies conducted in European countries and Canada (Souetre et al., 1987, Preti, 1997 and Marion et al., 1999).
Maes et al. (1995) demonstrated that higher ambient temperatures predict low l-tryptophan availability among healthy volunteers. This could possibly aggravate suicidal impulses in vulnerable people. Since the influence of ambient temperature noted in this study was adjusted for trend and seasonal factors including month of the year, the deviations of monthly mean temperatures from the expected mean temperature for that time of year, rather than absolute ambient temperature, might be much more important for suicidal death as suggested by Marion et al. (1999).[/quote]
[quote=“ac_dropout”]Muzha Man,
Suicide rates are up in Japan and Taiwan, societies that want to de-sinify.
Whereas suicide rates are not up dramatically in HK, Singapore, or China; societies that clearly happy to be predominately Chinese.
[/quote]
Suicide in HK is up 25% on a decade ago. Taiwan is about 38%, but there were spikes in the suicide rate here after the Asian economic crises and the 921 quake.
The actual rate per capita is about the same in Taiwan and HK - 18.8 and 18.6 per 100 000 respectively.
In fact suicide rates across all of Asia have been rising. I hardly think CSB can be held responsible for that.
http://english.www.gov.tw/TaiwanHeadlines/index.jsp?recordid=99218
Some people just don’t realize how insignificance they are, when they start questioning Chiangs contribution (especially CCK) towards Taiwan. Probably they never read from the recent poll taken in Taiwan by UDN on the following statistics:
Assessment of presidents of Taiwan:
Chiang Kai-shek
29%: Did more good than bad
30%: Did as much as good as bad
9%: Did more bad than good
Chiang Ching-guo
65%: Did more good than bad
12%: Did as much good as bad
3%: Did more bad than good
Chen Shui-bian
5%: Did more good than bad
19%: Did as much good as bad
54%: Did more bad than good
Which President of Taiwan made the greatest contribution?
6%: Chiang Kai-shek
1%: Yen Chia-kan
50%: Chiang Ching-guo
11%: Lee Teng-hui
5%: Chen Shui-bian
Either the poll was screwed up, or it just show the recklessness of those who hate Chiang’s legacy so much that the rubbishs they wrote just stinks.
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