When I got to the point of losing patience I left the office and went to Queens Spa
I once spent over 24 hours in there. Ear cleaning toe nail cutting… good food, this place is mental… for the mentally frustrated. I took my boss there he loved it too.
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No, he’s the best English speaker in the accounts department. Kid is in his mid 20s fresh out of a Taiwan university. My eldest child is not much younger than him.
I agree there is no way around learning the language.
Working on the language with evening 1-to-1 classes.
“Culture” has overlapping national and company cultures. I’ve never worked in a company where rudeness to other co-workers is tolerated until now. Have I just been lucky in the Western companies I’ve been in? What about the other stories I’ve heard about bosses shouting at subordinates in Taiwanese companies? Is this sort of thing more acceptable here?
Most of us choose to be here but what is “here”? The weaker side of the China-Taiwan conflict, that is facing a vastly superior in quantitative and qualitative terms military and by doing so end up on China’s blacklist. Most of the alumni of my alma mater without Taiwanese roots decided to support the bigger player.
Us foreigners have come to a land that isn’t our own, despite cultural and language barriers so maybe a bit of slack would be nice. A bit of workplace courtesy is not too much to ask for.
Cultural differences does not equate to one culture being superior to another.
So other people you know just chose China instead. Good for them. I do not know of any expat who has worked in Taiwan that has been blacklisted by China. Do you think shouting does not go on in western countries? Dang my son is a lawyers, lawyers have been known to shout at each other, even in trials judges have been known to shout at lawyers.
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Can you say for a fact China does not do blacklisting of Taiwan-friendly entities? It seems to me they have a long memory and this is an especially touchy topic for them.
Sorry I know I am asking you to prove a negative but this kind of is in the back of my mind that since I chose to come to Taiwan to work, I cannot ever look for career opportunities in China. Does it depend on the field of work?
Law and politics are not my field, thankfully.
Really confused about this paragraph. What does the situation with China have to do with your relationship with your coworkers.
Of course you arent blacklisted from China. Why would you be?
No, but have you seen any reports of expats who worked in Taiwan being blacklisted in China?
Lot’s of Taiwanese also work in China. Do you think China is blacklisting people from Taiwan? If so provide some links. It’s been people who were blacklisted in China not from Taiwan who moved to Taiwan for work.
Yes you have been lucky.
I worked for a British outfit for a while, they were the most fun but also the rudest with the shortest fuses. Berating colleagues in front of other employees, that kind of thing.
In Taiwanese companies I experienced all types of environments. Some good and some really terrible.
True multinationals tend to be careful about the screaming these days.
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So you are dealing with an immature colleague. He needs to see you as a mentor and stepping stone to better things.
Er… why? what do you mean?
If you mean that China will ban you after working here, that’s bollocks.
If you mean that after working here you won’t ever accept working at or for China, then good to hear that.
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Can’t say I have seen blacklisting from the China side for sure, but it is more of a conjecture.
Basketball player calls Taiwan a country, and gets a backlash in China. A backlash isn’t equivalent to a blacklist, but who knows? Their system is so opaque.
What about the other way around? I can’t recall the name of the senior TW microelectronics businessman who did consulting work to help China set up their own chip fab, and then said he regretted it.
Thank you but it isn’t really my responsibility to mentor him. I just want to get along with my job.
I turned down a much better offer from Mainland China for a job with ostensibly more autonomy and resources, US$40k/month salary because it was Mainland China and a certain South African’s videos on Youtube about life in China scared me off. Also I do not know how honorable the Chinese are when it comes to contracts and whether I would at all be able to enforce it as a foreigner vs. a Chinese institution.
My Taiwanese friends tell me if I think there is a cultural barrier dealing with Taiwan, China will be worse.
Hadn’t stepped foot in the country…maybe it was prejudice?
The guy from SMIC?
No offence, Im guessing you arent at that level or important enough to matter.
You would only get blacklisted if you are a prominent political activist
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He isn’t in Taiwan does not play in Taiwan has never been to Taiwan. You are suggesting that working in Taiwan gets people banned from working in China. Never heard of it happening.
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If you are worth US$40,000 a month why are you dealing with some junior accountant at all.
Move to China take the money.
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Not just for working here, other factors must be in to get that.
Money isn’t everything. There are other factors to consider. Firstly will the Chinese honor what they say?
Since it seems that the prospect of blacklisting on either side is not so probable, I could go visit them in person and see for myself.
Secondly what are the long term prospects and repercussions? I do not believe it is ever possible for a foreigner to get PRC citizenship, so I will always be a guest there. In Taiwan, it is possible.
Thirdly there are also cultural and moral differences. Going to the death penalty thread, I am somewhat uneasy about being in a country that executes people. If I am already frustrated about the cultural differences in Taiwan, what about China?
Very true and funny. Someone once said to me “Don’t watch Tik Tok as the Chinese will spy on you.” I just replied "That’s flattering"
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Honestly working culture in Taiwan is shit. Working culture in China is also shit and more mental, but they will pay you a lot more.
Living in China means making a lot more sacrifices, such as having to keep your mouth shut and also be exposed to a lot of propaganda. Thats why its best for a few years and then get out. On the other side, there is a lot more expat life and ammenities like restaurants and groups in big cities. Foreigners there also have more money, so more businesses targeted on getting that money
You probably havent done anything wrong. If it was in the States, would be a minor incident and swept under the rug. But the Taiwan office culture isnt like that. Its passive aggressive festering back biting and petty power struggles.
People are not trying to be mean, but just from experience, the only way to manage things is to go with the system. Or maybe you will be empowered by people above you to throw your weight around.
Its nothing against you if you don’t want to make the compromises needed here. If anything its probably more to your credit, but at the same time, we arent in Kansas anymore.
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You mean like USA?
Suggest you do that and go to China take a look see. It’s easy to get citizenship in Taiwan then change your Hukou to China, thereby getting PRC citizenship if you so desire. There are cultural differences between Taiwan and China. If you think Taiwan is bad then you certainly wont be happy in China. I’ve been a country manager in China for an overseas company. But then again I can do all my business in Chinese. I did not like being in China and I am perhaps far more adaptable than you are in a Chinese environment.
PS If you think Chinese will honor what they say, yes for contracts but for everything else… don’t count on it. Chinese don’t believe that something you design or build should be protected from theft.
What I don’t understand is that you say your co worker is a junior person in accounting and yet he upsets you as a senior manager.
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