Hey, what happened to this Russian exchange student at the 7-11 yesterday morning? The news said that there was a misunderstanding and the Taiwanese guy attacked him with a broken bottle? What kind of misunderstanding? What the heck?
Apparently a slang name for ice cream and the slang name for shit are similar. (My GF told me, but I can’t recall the word.) Anyway, the Russian said that he wanted an ice cream, the Taiwanese boys thought he was cursing at them, one of them broke a bottle and ground it into his arm.
Alternative story on another news station: He always went to that 7-11 and always hit on a betel nut lady who worked nearby. The local boys always saw this and were pissed because he looked just like another ass foreigner who was trying to pick up ladies (which may or may not be true). So, they were just looking for an excuse.
Whatever. I never see anyone get it who wasn’t asking for it. Smile, don’t try to pick up women like a sleaze ball, and remember to tread lightly (you are in a foreign country where your actions and words may be taken differently than you intend them to be taken).
Is there an air of resentment towards foreigners starting to emerge in Taiwan…
Maybe cause a lot of us are assholes and some of us are condescending towards the Taiwanese. Maybe they are starting to realize that they don’t need foreigners and resent our foreign asses in Taiwan
Did you see that programme on Much TV ion Tuesday” WE ARE THE WORLD”
Although it was only a couple of Taiwanese, their views and words towards foreigners were pretty strong.
quote[quote] I never see anyone get it who wasn't asking for it. [/quote]
That’s an extremely naive statement. I’ve been around long enough to know that there are some very disturbed or simply bad people there who are always looking for a reason–no matter how weak–to hurt other people.
Saying that anybody who is a victim of a crime is asking for it is blaming the victim. True, sometimes they contribute to the event. But very often it really is a matter of simple right or wrong.
Also–I’ve been reading a lot more at Oriented about foreigners being victims of violence. Did it occur to anyone that it might have something to do with the state of the economy? A society with more people out of work, or losing money often become more xenophobic.
when I say they were asking for it, I am not putting the blame on the victim comletely. Obviously, violence should not be used in almost every situation. However, foreigners insensitivities to their surroundings brings on this air of resentment.
Why is it that the people I hang out with have never had a problem? Why is it that it is only the loud obnoxious ones who get broken bottles ground into their bodies?
I ask you this… .have you ever had a problem, and if you incident to what even?
Dbbowman, Chainsmoker said in the thread below:
quote[quote] Another friend went to rock candy and got punched in the face and glassed for talking to a girl he has known for years. [/quote]
Was he asking for it Chainsmoker?
Even if someone is acting like an arsehole, they shouldn’t get attacked because they are a foreigner talking to a Chinese woman. Anyone who says “well there’s so many arsehole foreigners in Taiwan, it’s no surprise” or something like that, is just encouraging this sort of sh1t. Using racism to encourage more racism. Aiya.
I touched this guy’s BMW with my car’s mirror (and removed the damage with my finger when we started discussing the issue) - He started talking English but seemed to loose it - in both senses of the word (yes - stopped talking english and got very angry in chinese) - when I would not give him $NT20,000 for the damage to the back of his car - under the bumper - where he had previously backed into and over a few things.
I am glad he did not had a baseball bat or a gun. I guess I thought I had called his bluff when I got in my car and drove away.
But - from other threads - should I be worried that he is saving up his anger - and going to attack me one day when I least expect it - maybe with a broken bottle.
I am not a violent person…but sometimes when I see the behavior of Tawianese…for example in car accidents… I want to hit them with a baseball bat…and knock some sense into them.
Personally, a guy attacks me with a bottle I am going to shove that bottle so far up his ass he would have glass vocal chords.
What I have seen after coming from an inner city area in England is…if you can’t reason them and you’re back is to a wall… do as much damage to them cause the more damage you do to them…the less they do to you…sort of give as good as you get
And before people start saying violence breathes violence… my view is simple… a guy comes at you with a baseball bat…the purpose of the baseball bat is to inflict damage on you…since judging by the agressive way he is swinging…he is not on for negotiation with you…the only logical thing for you to do… is to attempt to knock the shit out of him.
Most people have never been in a situation like this…and therefore can discuss freely in theory what to do in hypothetical situations…weigh the violence breathes violence idea…but when you see a weapon being brandished at you and you think you could be dead… apart form getting the ‘fight or flight feeling’… you also get the idea “assholes like this should beaten so bad that they will think twice about attacking someone again”.
I know, I have lost fights and after that you think again about fighting.
I am not saying you should confront you attacker and fight…but if you can’t escape or get away…at least try to fuck the guy up cause that is what he wants to do to you…fists warn and are used for posturing…weapons are used to inflict serious injury
PS don’t carry weapons… if you pull it, you gotta use it, cause if you don’t the attacker might and usually will use it on you
I think common sense is better than your fists usually
Maybe a better warning would be …don’t be hanging outside areas like 45 etc after dark on your own…go in a crowd… safety in numbers…
Be aware of the Taiwanese girl’s company and the potential for a boyfriend somewhere before you make you move…
Don’t be a loan shark when talking to taiwanese girls… you know the type goes missing for hours… burning the ear of some Taiwanese girls…stay close to your friends…at least they will be a deterent to an attack
Don’t start a verbal arguement with a Taiwanese…all Taiwanese verbals I have seen always get physical very quickly…maybe they run out of insults in Taiwanese and revert to the trusty friends on the other side of the phoneline or their baseball bat
Denis rhymes with *****, right?
quote[quote]I am not a violent person...but sometimes when I see the behavior of Tawianese..for example in car accidents.. I want to hit them with a baseball bat...and knock some sense into them. Personally, a guy attacks me with a bottle I am going to shove that bottle so far up his ass he would have glass vocal chords. What I have seen after coming from an inner city area in England is..if you can't reason them and you're (sic) back is to a wall.. do as much damage to them cause the more damage you do to them..the less they do to you..sort of give as good as you get[/quote] Sure, you're not a violent person. You're Amish, right? [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]quote[quote]And before people start saying violence breathes violence[/quote]
Um, moron? The saying is violence breeds violence.
It’s really me (like anyone cares).I’m at an internet cafe and don’t remember my password.
First of all, if you expect to get the real story about what happened in an incedent involving a foreigner from Taiwanese media, you are living in a dreamland (hopefully one with lots of monkeys and candy). Those two explanations that dbbowman cites sound like a bunch of shite to me.
Also, dbbowman, my friend has never been in a car accident so he thinks only people who drive like assholes have them. Watch out for overdepence on the availability heuristic and anecdotal evidence.
Who can really say who deserves to be beaten to death, have bottles smashed in their face or have their arms slashed with machetes (all of which have happened to foreigners in Taiwan)? I for one am not qualified to make that judgement. I am much more concerned with letting people know what the environment is like so that they can make their own decisions about what is dangerous.
I think we all know that if you are a drunken buffoon “acting a fool” (as my dear mum would say) in dangerous bars, you are likely to be on a collision course with a hail of bottles (why everyone is so happy to point out that the person deserved it, I don’t quite understand). What people need to know is that you could be a “nice”, sober person (unlike all those other assholes) and still be assaulted.
That is why I started the thread, “Taiwan Fights”. I wanted other foreigners to be aware of the danger. I also wanted to read about other fights because I enjoy reading stories about violence and danger.
Anyway, here are just a few of the things I have witnessed or heard about directly in the 6 or so years I have lived in Taiwan.
I have seen two drunk Taiwanese guys destroy roxy plus with metal stools basically holding the people inside the bar hostage. I had to pull one of them off the owner who was getting assaulted for asking them nicely not to pillage his bar and assault his customers.
I was once kicked in the back while getting on my motorcycle outside of TU. I was alone, fairly sober, had not danced or talked with any girls and had never seen the guy before.
A female Taiwanese friend of mine was seriously b-slapped in TU for refusing to dance with a Taiwanese guy.
Two Taiwanese guys in DV8 had the bartender kick everyone out and lock the door while they beat the livin’ crap out of a foreigner because he was sloppy drunk. (hearsay, but from a reliable source)
In Spin, I saw about 10 Taiwanese guys broke numerous bottles over the head of a Taiwanese guy who walked through a conflict they were having with someone else on his way to the bathroom.
These are just a few. If anyone is interested, I am aware of violence involving foreigners going on at Vibe, Spin, 45, Texound, DV8 (now unlikey), all Roxys, TU and that’s about it. I am sure there are a few others, though.
I don’t want to alarm anyone with all that I have written. I still find Taipei to be safer than most big cities. Just remember when you are in certain bars and discos in Taipei, don’t get too drunk, watch your back and never get into a conflict. Don’t let them get started. Just give way, and give way, give way and if you absolutley must hit hard and run. I just hope you don’t look like me.
Chainsmoker, why do you hope we don’t look like you… what do you look like?
ok, to all of you on my back, I concede. I think you are right and retract the “they deserve it” thing.
However, I think you decrease your liklihood of being assaulted if you smile, don’t be a sleazeball, and just keep your wits about you.
quote[quote] If anyone is interested, I am aware of violence involving foreigners going on at Vibe, Spin, 45, Texound, DV8 (now unlikey), all Roxys, TU and that's about it. [/quote]
Um, why not DV8?? There was a fight in there just the other week, so happens.
I think the culprit was that same geezer who has it in for Sean Scanlan. Watch out for HIM!!
Oh, but that was a fight between two foreigners…
You wouldn’t be shoving the broken bottle that someone used to hit you with up his bottomside if you were laying on the ground with an artery squirting your red stuff out of the side of your head.
Trust me on this one. I know where of I speak.
I heard of a foreigner drunk driving one night up Chin Shan N Road after coming from the VIBE. On his way reversing his bike into the street he bumped a black Honda car
Everything seemed all right until he stopped at the first traffic light and the Honda was parked behind him growling the engine.
The Honda took off a head of him and then slowed down trying to block him. Again they pulled up to traffic lights and the Honda was snarling behind him. This time the driver of the Honda took off , but stayed behind the foreigner. Coming up on Chung Shua E Road where the highway begins, the Honda pulled along side, somebody reached out the window, grabbed the drunk driver and pushed him towards a park car… SMASH into the front of the car. The Honda then tore up the highway or the expressway.
The police found the foreigner, drunk sleeping on the car two hours later, it was not until the morning that he was allowed to go to the hospital and he was found to have suffered a concussion and had been unconscious not from the beer but from the knock on his head. Later they tried to press charges for drunken driving and damaging somebody’s car.
Don’t know if they did
Morale of the story: DON’T TOUCH BLACK CARS ESPICALLY A BLACK HONDA
Some sad stories here.
True, bottles and glasses make formidable weapons in the hands of someone who is drunk and out of control. Unlike a knife, which leaves a clean cut, bottles leave jagged wounds that are hard to suture, and shards of glass can break off inside the wound.
For exactly that reason, many UK nightclubs and disco-pubs (and almost all places with live bands) do not sell bottled beer at all
They only serve draft beer in disposable pint-size clear plastic cups.
Perhaps a similar trend among Taiwan’s nightspots could reduce the incidences of grievous bodily harm among both Taiwanese and foreigners.
Violence is never justified!!!
“I never see anyone get it who wasn’t asking for it.”
dbbowman Even though you retracted it you still don’t mean it! Your retraction post still implies it. Does a sleazeball deserve a violent act against them?
Please explain to me how your experiences should be the same as everyone else’s, or they are wrong?
I had an experience a few years ago that did not involve booze, yelling, sleazeball actions or insensitive foreigner attitudes.
I was on my way to work riding my motorcycle in the poring rain when a scooter clipped me. I was doing about 70 at the time and I had to swerve to avoid crashing. The scooter driver just kept going. A little further on at a red light he was stopped I pulled alongside of him and quietly said “open you eyes you were this close to me” by which I showed the relative closeness with my fingers (No not a rude gesture!). He did not look at me or respond but just pulled away from the light. A few blocks later the traffic was stopped forcing me to stop at which time I was hit in the shoulder with a full downward blow with a 3 foot long pipe wrench. The only thing that saved me from further damage was the girl this guy was with was screaming at him to stop and grabbing on to is arm so he could not hit me again. The incident was watched by a policeman who did nothing just watched the guy and his female friend (who was still yelling at him) get on his bike and leave.
“when I say they were asking for it, I am not putting the blame on the victim completely.”
So if you are not putting the entire blame on the victim please tell me what part of my experience should I take the blame for. Should I just have done nothing, or maybe I should just not be in Taiwan. How is that for a solution dbbowman!!!
Please do not generalize so much dbbowman. Your experiences are yours and they are valid but they are not all encompassing.
Dbbowman, What I meant when I said, “I hope you don’t look like me,” is that if you hit someone and run, I hope you don’t look like me because next time I’m in that bar, I could be minding my own bidness and get glassed because they thought you were me. That being said, I hope you don’t look like me any time because then there would be two of us walking around scaring small children.
Actually, the way I see this whole thing about fault and deserving it is this. If you intentionally walk off a cliff, you may not “deserve” to die, but I don’t feel too sorry for you. If you have lived in Taipei for a few years and you go out getting drunk and acting obnoxious at Spin and get bottled, you don’t deserve, but I don’t feel too sorry for you either. I do feel bad when someone comes to Taiwan and is just having a good time without being aware of the danger and gets killed or permanently injured. Like I said before, if you know the danger, its up to you how much risk to take.
you are right. Traffic is the other big danger zone in Taiwan. You didn’t deserve what happened to you, but now I bet you won’t initiate a conflict with someone in traffic. Calling attention to a wrong is absolutely starting a conflict. Just let it go. Usually, you can control if a conflict happens, but not what happens after it is started.
I am completely against violence, but I believe violence is just the upper spectrum of a conflict. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen violence erupt because someone felt that he or she had the right to tell someone off or comment on their behaviour or be verbally abusive. Later, that same person will usually blame everything on the violence instigator. The fact that “civilized” society may agree does not mean that the next time you instigate a conflict, the same damn thing might not happen.
I think it’s better to think of people as falling rocks. If a rock is falling on you, you just get out of the way and move on. You don’t bitch at it and condemn its behaviour.
This post has been edited by the moderators. Unsubstantiated references to individuals have been removed.
Okaaay Mr. Moderator, I “heard” that some sketchy things happened at DV8 in the past involving foreigners. I also “heard” that the owner has attacked customers with a glass ashtray, baseball bat and crossbow (unfired). These things that people witnessed and spoke about could very will be untrue. Also, I “heard” that Mr. Scanlan is a big fellow who is not to be trifled with (this is in tresponse to the poster who said that someone had it in for Mr. Scanlan). I “heard” that a Taiwanese guy that claims to teach the Taiwan swat team jumped from behind a bush and threatened Mr. Scanlan with a motorcycle helmet and most probably regrets the experience. I also “heard” that Mr. Scanlan recently knocked someone through a glass door in his own home. Most of these items are probably not true as there is no evidence and they are unsubstantiated. I mean it’s not like there are photos or anything. Are scars proof? Oh wait, there is a photo of the door on Sean’s website (probably fake). Thanks for protecting me, but if someone wants to refute anything I claim, I would be glad to respond. If you would like, I would be glad to refrain from mentioning individual’s names unless I feel it is absolutely necessary.
Chainsmoker, I hear ya. It’s a bit of a tough call for me. There was some other yahoo making indisputably defamatory remarks about S.S. anonymously. In order to be consistent, I also edited your considerably less provocative post. Because everyone in the forums knows who “Chainsmoker” is, I did not think it was necessary to delete all of what you wrote - based on what you’ve already posted, I already know you post responsibly. With other unregistered posters, I have no way to contact them to tell them why they were deleted, but I did want to at least provide the semblance of fairness. Mea Culpa.
By the by, are you having trouble logging in? Aren’t you usually the “registered” Chainsmoker?