RZR Revival?

Life Cars & Motorcycles
41

[quote=“marboulette”] I stumbled on a RZX today.

The guy came out of 7-11 when I was taking a pic of his bike. I asked him what it cost him and he told me 50K. For that bike, I’d pay 50k.
marboulette

Edit: I was mixed up about the wheels and thinking about another bike. The wheels on that bike are stock.[/quote]

There’s been one in a bike repair place that opened near NCKU maybe about 3 years ago. Old guy in it seemed to be trying to create/exploit a “future classics” niche market, but didn’t seem to be getting much work. Bikes been there all that time, quite good nick but not mint or anywhere near.

Anyway about a year ago I was passing with a bilingual Taiwanette and got her to ask how much he wanted for it…

65K… :roflmao:

I’m certainly foreign and often stupid, but THAT stupid?

IF I was going to spend that much on an RZX (and I’m not) I’d expect it to be mint, and blueprinted, but he didn’t look a blueprinting kind of guy.

Anyway, shops just closed. Dunno what happened to the old villain, or the old bike. Sad really. In another 10 years it MIGHT even be worth that much.

42

[quote=“Ducked”]Its ALIVE!!!

Finally harnessed the lightening, robbed a corpse, kicked it a few times, remembered to turn the juice on, kicked it a few more times and cue tapocketa tapocketa tapocketa and clouds of smoke.

Got most of the lights now too, except Neutral and another one I’ve forgotten.

Havn’t ridden it yet but I’ll try that tommorrow, hopefully early when its a bit quiter

The oil pump thingy actually does pulsate in a visceral sort of way, and does seem to deliver more oil at higher revs, but I dunno if its delivering the right amount of oil, and I don’t know how one would tell. I can’t see any obvious alignment marks. 4WIW the pin that rides up the circular wedge/ramp is level with the end of the cable at full throttle

I’m wondering if there would be be any point in collecting the oil it delivers while on a run of a few kilometers (on premix, of course), measuring its volume, and seeing if it seemed reasonable? I guess not, because the pump output will be heavily dependent on riding style (likely to be extremely timid) as well as mileage.

I’d guess its OK but I’m a bit reluctant to switch from premix and risk seisure.

Rubber boot on the front brake is a sticky mess. I’m guessing its been attacked by oil from the leaky forks, which has probably also contaminated the pads. Anyone know if brake components are still available for these machines? Front brake was stolen on the other one which might suggest not.[/quote]

Its DEAD! (rather less surprising)

I was very low on petrol (gas), having almost completely drained the tank of premix and was almost at the filling station when it conked out, so I MAY have actually run out. Pushed it the last 10 yards, put in another 5 litres, and started it up, though it needed a bit of choke even though hot.

For the next 10K it cut out several times, usually (or maybe always) when coasting with the throttle closed and the clutch disengaged. Last time it wouldn’t restart.

My best guess is dirt in the carb (which I didn’t clean, though I knew I should have), perhaps aggravated by higher vacuum on overun with a closed throttle. There shouldn’t have been much muck in the tank because its new, but I suppose it might have been supplied with free crap, and I didn’t wash it.

Any other suggestions?

43

Did it make a grinding or friction kind of noise when it stalled? Maybe you didn’t have enough oil in your fuel and you messed up the piston rings.

marboulette

44

I guess it did. Bugger. Thats rather depressing.

It isn’t actually seized, because I can still kick it over, and in fact (after a break of a couple of hours while I did some teachy stuff) I just went back to where it conked out, started it and rode it the few hundred remaining metres to the school.

The oil light came on for the first time this morning, but I’d had the instrument cluster off to replace a bulb (which is fucking outrageous but seems to be required) and its got oil in the tank so I assumed it was just a sensor fault or short.

The oil pump was definately working, but I can’t really be sure its delivering the right amount of oil.

Maybe I’ll revert to premix. Less parenoia - inducing, though it certainly has its downside.

45

If it started again, you might be alright. Could be some damage to the sleeve and piston and or rings, but it should run. I seized my scooter solid after I re-installed the seat housing one time because I squeezed the oil line shut under the seat housing. It started again when it cooled down, and it seized again within one mile. Upon inspecting for the problem, I noticed the oil line was stuck. Bike ran just fine for two more years until the crank shaft bearing snapped. Somehow, part of the bearing ended up wedged between the piston and the sleeve. The bike was really seized that time. I had to us a large hammer to separate the two and it wasn’t easy. NT$900 later, I had a new sleeve, piston, rings, crank shaft bearing and all new gaskets put on. Got to love them two strokes. The sleeve was badly damaged and beyond the possibility to just be over sized. But the price difference is insignificant. I can over size it for about NT$5-600 including pistons, gaskets, etc, or I can just buy brand new for NT$900-1000.

With the RZX, you’d probably be looking at over sizing it it push comes to shove. I’d say you’d be looking at about NT$1000 at the most for that if you do it yourself.

I have a feeling you have air in your pump.

marboulette

46

[quote=“rk1951”]

Yeah, that is just a little bottle to carry 2-stroke oil, and help measure it when adding it into the gas tank. His stock oil pump must be disconnected. I would assume once the oil pump breaks on those RZR’s you can’t find a replacement. Same as the NSR’s. That is what most guys riding old 2-strokes like myself have to carry around on their bikes. Nice RZR!![/quote]

Those bottles look made-for-the-job, because I’ve seen them on more than one RZX, and they have some sort of valve in the metal nozzle.

What’s the advantage over the bottle the oil came in? Do they actually help measure the oil in some way? Doesn’t the (apparently exposed and presumably oily) nozzle get dirty?

I was thinking I’d just use a graduated cup with a lid, or possibly one of those soap dispensor hand pump thingies, but I’m interested in alternatives.

Edit: Thinking about it they look a bit like the “shot” dispensing nozzles (or whatever they’re called) you sometimes see on spirits bottles in bars.

47

I put premix in it (1:20), hooked up the pump output to a bottle, and rode it back to Tainan (where my tools are).

It seemed to run OK though there were some alarming intermittent rattles from the gearbox area which I didn’t notice before.

I forgot to plug the carb oil intake, which Redwaggon seemed to think might lean it so much it wouldn’t start. Since it started OK (with choke, admittedly) and seemed to run OK too, this may suggest that this is’nt clear, but poking it with a toothpick produced no gunge.

There was perhaps about 20mls of oil in the bottle when I got back, so it is pumping.
The oil light didn’t come on today, though I hadn’t put any more oil in. This tends to support my view that its a bad connection/faulty sensor.

I bled the oil pump, and saw no bubbles.

At this point, in the abscence of any hard evidence that the oil pump was at fault, I’m coming back to my original “dirt in the carb” theory.

I put some more premix in, then I noticed the paint round the inside of the filler cap was crinkled and loose. At first I thought it was just the (blue) overspray from the outside, and started to remove it with a coffee stick and forceps, but it came away in sheets extending into the battleship grey paint on the inside of the tank.

Since the tanks never been full so far, this paints never been immersed in petrol, so the stuff at the bottom of the tank (which can’t be seen) is likely to be worse.

I drained the tank, removed it and tipped out as much of the dregs as I could, and they had flakes of paint in them. They didnt seem to have got through to the fuel filter and the tap mesh was clear, so I don’t know if they caused the stalls. On balance, I’d guess not.

On the other hand, a petrol tank should be petrol resistant, and this one isn’t.

I suppose its possible that it would have been OK with straight petrol, but that the 2-stroke oil (CPC “Ultra Low Smoke” in the green bottle) has more aggressive (de-coking) solvents in it.

Its also possible that the (Mandarin) small print on the bottle says its not suitable for premix, but this seems fairly unlikely for what I’d guess is the second-most widely available 2-stroke oil in Taiwan.

I’m thinking I’d better clean that carburettor. I’m also thinking my original half-assed improvisation idea (plastic tank) isn’t looking so bad. Full circle

If you want something screwed up, get it screwed up professionally.

48

Ha, got overtaken by a black RZ-X with “WON JON” stickers on the tank today on the road out near Shimen Dam while riding to the LongTan race track… :astonished:

49

That’s one of the makers of pattern gas tanks who started using their own brand name after Yamaha clamped down on them using theirs. The ones I have seen were maybe a little thinner than the originals but seemed to last pretty well. Not sure if they are still available however.

50

That’s one of the makers of pattern gas tanks who started using their own brand name after Yamaha clamped down on them using theirs. The ones I have seen were maybe a little thinner than the originals but seemed to last pretty well. Not sure if they are still available however.[/quote]

No stickers on mine. From my last post you can perhaps see why.

51

This gas tank issue is messed up. I can’t believe it. Fucking made in Taiwan crap. I guess you could have it re-painted properly… But it’s BRAND NEW!!! :s

marboulette

52

[quote=“marboulette”]This gas tank issue is messed up. I can’t believe it. Fucking made in Taiwan crap. I guess you could have it re-painted properly… But it’s BRAND NEW!!! :s

marboulette[/quote]

Yes, its annoying. I reckon if I have to piss about getting a new tank re-painted (who by? what with?) it would’nt be much more trouble to fix the old one.

Based on very little research (not much time at the moment) old engine restorers here

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2455

use various tank sealers. Brands mentioned include POR-15 [which I’ve vaguely heard of], Kream[apparently specifically marketed for motorcycles] , Red Kote, Randolph Sloshing Sealer and even “Model T tank sealer” [kind of a specialised market, that] but these are all US-market products. Don’t know whats available here.

53

It smokes a lot. I mean REALLY A LOT, even for a 2-stroke. I mean enough to get complaints from TAIWANESE when stopped at traffic lights.

If I can’t improve it a bit I’m going to have to avoid using it in daylight in urban areas else someones (quite rightly) going to drop dime on me.

Its got what appears to be a current smog test sticker, but its hard to believe its genuine.

Any tips (other than general tune up and maybe a compression test) for restoring visibility in Southern Taiwan?

54

What oil are you running? Cheap 2T is smoky.
Oil pump set correctly? Double-check.
Transmission oil level dropping? If the crankshaft oil seal on the primary drive side is leaking, the oil will get sucked into the crankcase. This is usually accompanied by uneven running, poor idle and starting etc. due to the vacuum leak.

55

It’s been sitting awhile right? Extra gummed up oil on the baffles can cause this too. If it’s a stock pipe (I think it’s not though if memory serves) then remove the baffle, hit with with a wire brush and gasoline. Then, with the baffle out, rev the hell out of it while doing some decent whacks with a hammer onto the exhaust…You’ll get massive complaints from anyone near you, but you’ll also be amazed at what comes flying out of there.

If it’s aftermarket (exhaust) then replace the back end and repeat the hammer trick before replacing. It will help.

How’s the power?

56

[quote=“redwagon”]What oil are you running? Cheap 2T is smoky.
Oil pump set correctly? Double-check.
Transmission oil level dropping? If the crankshaft oil seal on the primary drive side is leaking, the oil will get sucked into the crankcase. This is usually accompanied by uneven running, poor idle and starting etc. due to the vacuum leak.[/quote]

Its CPC “Ultra Low Smoke” in the green bottle, so cheap, but not the very cheapest (109NT versus 69NT in my local all-night hardware store). This was kind of a distress purchase since it was the only brand they had that I recognised, but I’ll try it with a known multinational brand like Mobil or Castrol and see if it makes any noticable difference.

Transmission oil level seems stable, but I havn’t done many miles yet. It mostly seems to run OK but there was that stalling episode last week. Once terms over I’ll take it for a longish run and see what happens to the oil level.

BTW I should change the transmission oil. Should I use EP-80 or 90 gear oil (which I havn’t seen available here in small quantities, but you must be able to get it), CPC HDX-40 (a widely available straight “heavy duty” 40W motor oil from CPC) or 65W hydraulic oil (of which I have a lot, can’t remember the brand)?

I’d guess EP gear oil would be best long term but(depending on what comes out when I drain it) I might flush with the hydraulic oil first.

57

It’s been sitting awhile right? Extra gummed up oil on the baffles can cause this too. If it’s a stock pipe (I think it’s not though if memory serves) then remove the baffle, hit with with a wire brush and gasoline. Then, with the baffle out, rev the hell out of it while doing some decent whacks with a hammer onto the exhaust…You’ll get massive complaints from anyone near you, but you’ll also be amazed at what comes flying out of there.

If it’s aftermarket (exhaust) then replace the back end and repeat the hammer trick before replacing. It will help.

How’s the power?[/quote]

Thanks, I’d forgotten that aspect. I’ve heard of people burning them out with oxy-acetylene / oxy-propane torches, though I’d think there’d be a risk of melting.

IIRC correctly you’re supposed to get the oil burning then turn off the fuel and just run enough oxygen through to keep it cooking. You probably wouldn’t want to be upwind of any habitations though, even in Taiwan.

Academic since I don’t have a torch, but sounds dramatic.

58

[quote=“Ducked”]I’ve heard of people burning them out with oxy-acetylene / oxy-propane torches, though I’d think there’d be a risk of melting. The insulation burns out, though, which always results in a noisier exhaust.
[/quote]I had many of them done at my local welder. He uses acetylene but the setting is not hot enough to melt anything. He cuts an opening on the back side of the exhaust with a grinder, burns everything to ashes and welds it back shut. Worked every time for me on two strokes that smoke but seem to run fine otherwise.

There is an easy way or two to tell if the smoke problem is related to a clogged smoldering exhaust. If the bike smokes more after it ran really hot for a while, if the bike smokes more when it’s hot, it is an indication that the exhaust could very well be the culprit. Knowing that the bike is quite aged, I’d say you would notice a large decrease in smoke if you sorted out the exhaust one way or the other. Blue smoke indicates too much oil mixed in the petrol, dark smoke indicates that you are burning the oil from the crank case, and a lighter smoke, light grey or almost white, indicates that build up in the exhaust is smoldering.

The good about burning/reconditioning the exhaust:

-cheap (NT$300)
-less smoke
-more power
-lowers the engine operating temperature
-increase engine life

The bad:

-Noisier ( only a bit noisier)
-Illegal (only a bit illegal…)

marboulette

59

Oh dear. That stuff is crap, lotsa smoke and poor lubrication. My favorite 2T on sale in Taiwan is the Kymco branded stuff for the NSR. Made in Japan and repackaged here. Very good. You have to shop a bit though. I used to just buy it by the case from the Kymco official spares outlet.

[quote]
BTW I should change the transmission oil. Should I use EP-80 or 90 gear oil (which I havn’t seen available here in small quantities, but you must be able to get it), CPC HDX-40 (a widely available straight “heavy duty” 40W motor oil from CPC) or 65W hydraulic oil (of which I have a lot, can’t remember the brand)?

I’d guess EP gear oil would be best long term but(depending on what comes out when I drain it) I might flush with the hydraulic oil first.[/quote]
EP oils are way too heavy for your trans and will cause the clutch to stick. I prefer a regular synthetic multigrade because you basically cannot find straight grade synthetics here. The 40W is fine but you will want to change it a bit more often. Remember that although the oil in the trans will not get contaminated by combustion byproducts, it will get ‘chopped up’ by your gears. The sliding motion under pressure between gear flanks chops up the long-chain molecules and lower viscosity over time. Synthetics last a bit longer, but as to whether or not that’s worth the expense is open to debate.

Do NOT fill your trans with hydraulic fluid. The oil seals may not be rated to withstand the seal swelling agents in most of these fluids and may split and disintegrate as a result of being immersed in them.

I have run synthetics meant for cars, with friction modifiers, in all sorts of small-bore Taiwan made motorcycles without any clutch slip resulting from that. No need to pay extra for special motorcycle blends.

As to the talk about the exhaust being coked up, I’d guess that is not your problem by the way you describe your riding style. Two-stroke oil will condense in a cool exhaust and that condensate will dry out to form coke over time. Putting more heat into the exhaust than usual will cause that coke to break down and a rapid increase in smoke is the result. It doesn’t sound to me like you are running the bike hard enough to cause that. I don’t know if you are running leaner due to the carb being dirty, but that would also cause the same effect, since a leaner mixture makes for higher exhaust gas temperatures. Of course a clean exhaust will perform better than a very dirty one, so it is worth the effort of de-gunking it.

60

[quote=“marboulette”][quote=“Ducked”]I’ve heard of people burning them out with oxy-acetylene / oxy-propane torches, though I’d think there’d be a risk of melting. The insulation burns out, though, which always results in a noisier exhaust.
[/quote]

[/quote]

No I didn’t. That last bit was you.

I will in future though.