Save Your NT, use Barter Dollars Instead (Details Inside)

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

Basically a LETS is a system for people to trade services and goods without using money (well, paper money money). The system is based off of the local currency (in this case NT). When you make a sale/purchase credit is given to the seller and taken away from the buyer (everyone starts with a 0 balance).

You can also do things like take part LETS money and part “real” money, etc. Here are a few links with more information.

[quote=“www.gmlets.u-net.com”][url=http://www.gmlets.u-net.com/faq.html#section1]
What is a LETSystem?

A LETSystem is a trading network supported by its own internal currency. It is self-regulating and allows its users to manage and issue their own ‘money supply’ within the boundaries of the network.[/url][/quote]

I found this software from the Wikipedia site that looks really smooth and is what could be used to set one up.

[quote=“project.cyclos.org”][url=http://project.cyclos.org/site.php]Community Currency Administration via internet made possible with Cyclos Software

Cyclos is a new software for community currency systems and barter systems. It is sort of a combination between ebay and an online bank, but then applied to your own local self-made currency. Your members can see what anyone has to offer to the system, can manage their own advertisings, and can do payments in your own alternative currency.[/url][/quote]

It seems like this would be a cool way for people to exchange services here. Since Taiwan brings so many people together with so many backgrounds in things we could all share them via a LETS.

It would also be cool to have Taiwanese involved so even a wider variety of services and products would get added into the mix. People could also get rid of “junk” this way. I have a slew of high tech products that I want to get rid of, but don’t want to sell and don’t way to just “give” away (bluetooth headset, old Palm, old digital camera, a computer, to name a few).

Looking for people who would want to help with something like this (PM or email me, miltownkidXXX@gmail.com (remove the XXX)). Just want to bounce around ideas.

[color=red]And a special bonus for people that made it to the bottom of this post, a clip of me getting suplexed at the tournament in the Philippines.[/color]

[miltown “the bigger they are, the harder they fall” kid]

2

Nice vid, miltownkid.

(note to self: NEVER fuck with mk)

3

I’m still researching this thing and still plan on getting one setup here (here being here in Taiwan.) I’ve contacted a company whose business is running barter exchanges, and will operate one at no charge if the exchange is not-for-profit.

That company is here: barter-software.com/

Let me try to make another example of the system…

Person A wants a computer and teaches English. Person B wants to learn English and teaches Chinese. Person C wants to learn Chinese and has a computer business.

A buys a computer from C (using dollars from the Exchange, not real currency.) A now has a negative balance and C a positive one.

A does a one on one class with B bringing his/her account to 0 and giving B a negative balance.

C goes on to purchase Chinese classes from B using his/her positive balance from the initial computer sale, bringing C’s balance to 0 and B’s balance to 0.

This is an example of an exchange with only 3 people. There could be hundreds or thousands of businesses and people available to make trades with.

Optimally a business or person would be able to do anything from buying flowers for Valentines Day to seeking legal advise all from within the group of members in the exchange and without using any real currency.

Anyone interested in learning more, or wants information on how to become a member when it’s all setup is welcome to contact me. I’ll be able to get things going on my own, but help is always welcome :slight_smile:.

4

couldn’t see the video :frowning:

5

Heheh, must be gone now. I’ll fix up that link. I’m sure that’s the only reason anyone comes into this thread anyway :wink:.

Fixed the original link. Here it is again for those that missed it the first time. I’m the one getting schooled by the short dude.

[miltownkid’s forward flip takedown!]

6

OK, this LETS thing is going to start taking off soon. I’ll be submitting the paperwork for it tonight and everything should be ready to be used by next week.

If you’re totally unfamiliar with how a LETS (a barter exchange) works, that’s OK. I’ll eventually get a website up explaining things in more detail and have get-togethers and stuff. Here’s the basic premise via diagram.


Bandwidth “barrowed” from: [Texas Barter Exchange].

Anyone interested in trying things out early, contact me (PM, email, or post.) This should end up being a more creative way to do language exchanges, trading service, selling stuff, etc. than using your NT is. There will be no charge to use the system, but I’ll need to verify anyone that wants to use it (as to prevent fraud.)

I you have a suggestion for a name, spill it. Otherwise I’m going to use “LETS Taiwan.”

Anyone that “owes me money” for hosting I planned on putting on this system. That’s why you never got charged :slight_smile: (you will be soon, Barter or NT :smiley:). Anyone that’d be interested in getting hosting using this system, can contact me as well.

7

I still think that’s you who yelled :P, I see you managed to end up ‘on top’ GRIN .
:notworthy:
Let me know when the LETS thing is going, pick me pick me!!! I wanna be first… give you a shiny new quarter :P… or gasp… 10nt… if ur reaaaaal good :bravo: :smiley:

8

Keep this thread alive! I think it’s a good idea.

I’d try it.

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[quote=“miltownkid”]Let me try to make another example of the system…

Person A wants a computer and teaches English. Person B wants to learn English and teaches Chinese. Person C wants to learn Chinese and has a computer business.

A buys a computer from C (using dollars from the Exchange, not real currency.) A now has a negative balance and C a positive one.

A does a one on one class with B bringing his/her account to 0 and giving B a negative balance.

C goes on to purchase Chinese classes from B using his/her positive balance from the initial computer sale, bringing C’s balance to 0 and B’s balance to 0.

This is an example of an exchange with only 3 people. There could be hundreds or thousands of businesses and people available to make trades with.[/quote]

Um, what the hell is the point of this? It’s one thing to encourage bartering without using any sort of currency. I can see the hippie point about bringing people together to foster community, not being a slave to money, blah blah blah. But once you invent some sort of Monopoly money to go along with your scheme, what’s the difference between that and, well, real money? Except for the fact, of course, that everyone will take real money.

10

So, you are exchanging one monetary system for another?

11

No, not at all. I’ve noticed that I do a pretty bad job of explaining the way it works.

Hotels like the system because they can rent out rooms with it (during off peak seasons) and in turn you the “barter dollars” to… buy advertising in a newspaper or on a radio station, have their website redesigned, etc.

It works in small communities because in times of economic lows, trading can good on uninterrupted.

Also, this system doesn’t charge interest (or does one gain interest.)

I challenge you to define what money even is and what it means to you. I am not inventing some “monopoly” money. I’m am merely introducing something to Taiwan that has been going on for a LONG time. I’m not trying to sell anything to anyone. Using the system will be free (for personal use.) The system will only stimulate trading/sales for individuals that use it (hopefully.)

Why not take a look at some other sites that do this whole “Monopoly Money” thing?

[Bartercard] - - $1 billion in cashless transactions per annum

  • Operational in 17 countries and 5 languages
  • 75,000 unique card carrying members

[ITEX] - Founded in 1982, ITEX is a leading marketplace for cashless business transactions across North America. ITEX processes over $300 million a year in transactions across 21,500 member businesses and sixty regional licensees. Member businesses increase sales and open new markets by utilizing ITEX dollars to exchange goods and services. ITEX is powered by ITEX Payment Systems, the leading payment technology platform for cashless business transactions. ITEX is headquartered in Bellevue, Washington.

I’ve never been a good sales person and never want to be. I try my best to go off of facts and give facts. Basically this barter thing is suppose to stimulate business for people and businesses that use it (there for bringing you more “real” money, and save you operating costs of running a business/costs of living (thus saving you “real” money.)

Basically I plan on being in Taiwan a long time and I think I could befinit from having a system like this in place. I like numbers and it’s something fun to do on a rainy day.

The system also gives you more control. Now you can get something for that hobby you have (mine tinkering with technology.) People I do favors for will now have the option of giving me “real” money, or using this system (or getting no favor). Using the system means they’ll have to do a favor for someone else later (that’s another way to look at it.)

12

I have a lot of respect for you, MK, but I too agree with alidarbac based on what I understand so far. To me it’s trading one form of currency for another.

Sure, shops could get increased business if they accept this barter currency and people are out there that would like to spend it. It’s almost like saying a pub that caters to foreigners here in Taipei could get better business by also accepting US Dollars or Euros instead of only accepting NT.

However, I for one have no problems spending NT for services rendered. It’s the most convenient form of payment in Taiwan, and I think it works pretty well. It’s probably also easier to prevent fraud or cheating for a real currency than for barter currency.

It also reminds me of the Tongyong Pinyin controversy in a way. Why invent a new system, when there is already a perfectly fine one in place?

Anyway, nothing personal. You’re a very bright guy, and I just want to see you do well. I’m just not sure if this barter thing is really all it’s cracked up to be.

13

[quote=“scomargo”]I have a lot of respect for you, MK, but I too agree with alidarbac based on what I understand so far. To me it’s trading one form of currency for another.

Sure, shops could get increased business if they accept this barter currency and people are out there that would like to spend it. It’s almost like saying a pub that caters to foreigners here in Taipei could get better business by also accepting US Dollars or Euros instead of only accepting NT.

However, I for one have no problems spending NT for services rendered. It’s the most convenient form of payment in Taiwan, and I think it works pretty well. It’s probably also easier to prevent fraud or cheating for a real currency than for barter currency.

It also reminds me of the Tongyong Pinyin controversy in a way. Why invent a new system, when there is already a perfectly fine one in place?

Anyway, nothing personal. You’re a very bright guy, and I just want to see you do well. I’m just not sure if this barter thing is really all it’s cracked up to be.[/quote]

And besides, I like having a big whack of $1,000NT bills that I can drool over and rub all over my body. Can’t do that with the bartering system.

14

It seems easy to exploit too, for example, if I own a store and I stock it with items that I pay for in Barter dollars (which I’m not paying interest on), then I can sell them for real cash which I can then invest in interest paying dividends.

What is to stop a user going to far “in debt”?

Maybe if you can get the girls in Lin Sheng Bei Lu to accept Barter dollars … :slight_smile:

15

Me either, but there’s really only one way to find out :wink:. It does really well some places and it isn’t for everyone. I’m really not too interested in trying to convert anyone. If you’re not into it, you’re not into it. The benifits are easily understood by me, but then again so is Quantum Mechanics :slight_smile:.

The best example I personally have is setting up the website for TaiwanBJJ. That scored me many months of free classes that I otherwise would have had to pay for (about 3,000NT/month.) My options would have been not going to the class, or paying out of pocket (without looking at barter.) By trading I got myself in really good shape (surprising the best I’ve been in my life, and that’s saying a lot for me) and spent a fraction of the time and energy I would have had using my “Teacher Bucks.”

No it isn’t. The increase in business is because of extra trading between members. Members are encouraged to trade amungst themselves, a community. The only benifit to accepting foreign bucks is maybe conveniece for the customer (except for Canadians they like sticking together.)

Money perfect? My initial reaction is :laughing: , but I’m sure my views of the world vary greatly from most.

This is a good point. I have no counter arguemnet. :wink:

That would be totally OK and would not be exploiting the system. Exploiting the system would be not paying back the system by either selling something or doing work at some later date. It’s not going to be an open system that anyone can join. I plan on knowing everyone personally. And anyone who knows who I know knows they wouldn’t want to exploit my system. :smiling_imp:

It’s not like real money doesn’t have it’s flaws as well… [Securitas depot robbery].

Basically there’s a preset limit to how much an individual can go into debt. It’s based on how much real money they make over a years time (to begin with.) Also, all of the members will be able to see how much debt or positive balance a person has (or should be able to, I haven’t gone totally through this system yet.)

Even if someone does leave the system without paying back a debt (and avoids me tracking them down :smiley:) it’s the system as a whole that takes a hit, and not an individual member. Thus making this form of barter safer than others (like if I took a buch of free classes and never finished the site.)

The point you guys are bringing up are good, but have been thuroughly covered over the years since it’s come about. The system I’m most familiar with (done the most reading on) is the LETS and that started in Canada.

16

Miltownkid,

I hear what you are saying, but financial independence comes down to working hard and counting pennies. The bartering system works in some limited way but don’t count on it making you rich.

17

this system is interesting but might be limited only to certain domains and products. trading services or any other goods like games for instance is nothing new. many sites are already specialized in this kind of transactions but it’s a “niche” market.
lingering problems with this kind of transactions is fraud and one’s estimation of what a service/product is actually worth…

money (real money, not “trade-based money” like barter) plays a very important role in chinese culture, it’s hard to figure out how taiwanese would replace it with something else. unless, of course, you can have barter dollars to burn at the temple… :laughing:

18

[quote=“5566”]
money (real money, not “trade-based money” like barter) plays a very important role in Chinese culture, it’s hard to figure out how Taiwanese would replace it with something else. unless, of course, you can have barter dollars to burn at the temple… :laughing:[/quote]

Yes, but…people here don’t burn real money. Burning legal tender is a criminal offence.They use real money to buy “ghost” or “god” money, and burn that.

In any case, I agree with those posters who have suggested that miltownkid’s barter money idea would be an open invitation to those of a deceitful disposition.

19

man, as if noone knew that already… :astonished: the fact that people dont burn real money has no importance since it is a symbolic act representing very well how important money is here.

i dont see this barter sytem working at all in tw society.

20

[quote=“5566”]man, as if noone knew that already… :astonished: the fact that people dont burn real money has no importance since it is a symbolic act representing very well how important money is here.

I don’t see this barter sytem working at all in tw society.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying that, 5566. :unamused: