So title kinda says it all… scammers are going after my 60 something MIL. Let’s cut to the chase, she’s a borderline illiterate peasant. They’re getting her on FB, all these fake accounts are her “friends” on there… “Princes” from the Middle East, young Korean guys who look like K Pop stars. Like they’d ever be interested in a woman that age. She’s stubborn as hell. So not sure what to do. She just uploaded an Apple App Store gift card code for $500 NT on FB. Not sure how these scams go down. This is particularly dispicable because she’s a widow and has next to nothing. I don’t know why people would go after a target with so little… just proving how scummy these people are.
Anyway, we’re at a loss of what to do right now. Trying to convince her that it’s a scam is not working despite how many times we have told her. Her son is doing nothing because of all this non-confrontational face saving bullshit in this culture. She can barely operate the phone. He even downloaded the apps where the scammers are now contacting her, I don’t remember which one, but one that has virtually no controls that scammers use. For now I don’t know what else we can do besides cut off her internet and phone service or get control of the phone, unfriend a bunch of people, change her account settings and delete certain apps. Is there anything we can do? Contacting the authorities? Do they have officers who can sit her down and tell her these are scams? We don’t know what the hell to do… any advice appreciated.
Yeah, I don’t know how to do it… for me, I’d be very confrontational and direct. But often times people are just too damn stupid and stubborn for that to work. If you’re too soft it’s often ineffective. Not sure how to strike the proper balance with something like this.
At some point she has to help herself. If she refuses to listen to you and other family members about what an idiot (sorry…) she’s been then there’s nothing you can do but let her learn a hard lesson that hopefully is limited to her own finances and not the rest of the family. Restricting how much money she can access from the bank or her cards is one course of action. Legal action? Pfft, good luck.
My own similar example… My father-in-law had cancer that at one point could have probably been treated with surgery and chemo. But being a devout Taoist he preferred going to temple “doctors” (heavy emphasis on the quotes here) who gave him a bunch of brown powders to drink. He of course didn’t get better, and by the time he finally relented and had surgery and chemo he was terminal and they could only give him a few extra months of hell. When he was still seeing the temple quacks, I and others in his family, pleaded with him to get proper medical treatment to no avail. He was stubborn just like your M-I-L and no amount of reasoning could change his mind.
Does she have beginnings of dementia or Alzheimer’s?
This thing happened to relative I know (bought gift cards for a real friend, but that friend’s email account was hacked). The relative was just on verge of diagnosis of brain cancer.
honestly, given her lack of intelligence and education, it’s hard to tell. She’s in her early 60s… seems a bit early. she doesn’t drink or anything like that. not sure if that’s the case, but I suppose it’s possible.
Feel your pain. I’m in a similar boat except mine can use the phone sadly.
After many years, one strategy that helped the most (especially now that translating inclined is getting acceptable) is to make a family group.
Our group has my mother and sister (canadian), me, my wife and her mother. My family is in on it when I say something. So they never say anything, but when I do they back it up as if it is scary OTHER people do it. We talk about how scams work, how naive older taiwanese aunties are etc. I say it flat out, but always about other “friends” we are worried about.
As you noted, face is the name of the game. This method, albiet a long term one that actually takes hundreds of hours of thinking how to word things does work.
Siee note, separate yourself from liability and financial ties now, before it’s too late. Draw that line in the sand as soon as possible.
Also, to be fair, scammers don’t always know how much he someone is worth. But even taiwanese poor people are wealthy by world standards. As scams go, getting a million people for 500nt is still $500,000,000…end of the day, scale.
Thanks, that’s not a bad idea. This is the thing I hate about face… you have to do all this indirect bullshit and it’s a complete waste of time. It’s why I am convinced that China will never rule the world as many fear. It’s shit like this that holds them back.
Anyway, the plan we have devised is to get a hold of her phone, delete her social media account, delete any message apps that scammers use, create a new account that my wife will control (new email and she knows the password). Mom can still use social media, but her daughter is able to be in control only if things start to get out of hand again. New account will have a different name, but one that friends and family will still recognize. Make sure that the profile is locked, and while she can accept requests for real friends and family, my wife can monitor everything and block/delete people as needed. If things like this do not work, then we will get her a dumb phone and cut off her internet.
The thing that scares me the most is that scammers could possibly be trying to get to my daughter via the MIL…
That’s the issue. I came to realize that arguing with Mom was useless as she is past realization, consequences, rationalizing.
Would you argue with a 3 year old? A cat? Then don’t.
Cut short the loses. Don’t be confrontational. The son you can bring an authority - a doctor, a social worker or geriatric specialist- and make a plan. Everyone on the same page.
Have a responsible party manage her finances. She needs friends, socialization, feeling needed, wanted. Not bored. Fill her time with actual people. Day care, group activities, tours for the elderly. If she’s in Taipei city there are a lot of activities sponsored by the government.
There is not much you can do with scammers. Call 165, give them the data, see if you can sue them. But they are probably overseas. And yes, they are relentless.
Most importantly, don’t make it about you or justice. Why me? Why us? She is such a good person, this should not happen to her. The world is not fair but you can help protect her without locking her up.
Note you plan about that. You open up legal liability, and you would be found guilty if her mom decides to push it legally (it does happen here, seeing family members). Be careful on that one.
End of the day it is her right as a human being to get totally fucked by anyone she chooses. In my opinion, your first step should be separate all financial, legal etc ties with this woman before making the next step. She might need to sign things, this would be a clear sign that you guys aren’t playing and although breaks face it does so in private.
If you live in her mother’s house, rely on her for anything financial, consider yourself fucked until you divorce the financial side.
A big issue in Taiwan, sadly especially with women and especially with women in that age bracket. They do need ck stant attention. It’s a sad fact of life. Friends are often what get thwse ignorant/naive people in trouble. You can get an idea of her friends by discussing medical issues, about yourself to save face. If Friend A is insistent on this local doctor, famous and room Taipei, he can do anything. If they give examples of other friends. This type of friend is the one that gets their drinks involved in scams as they are so beyond easily manipulated. I would spend a couple months doing market research on her circles, innocent tly but question them about your own life or your own friends lives.
It is a waste of time. Incredibly bandwidth intensive. I won’t do it for anyone, but if it’s my mother or my wife’s mother, I guess I have to put in the time before that person completely fucks up everyone’s lives. But will never do it by limiting their freedom outside of dementia related things.
Yeah it’s obvious the mother in law just needs friends more than anything. Modern society is very isolating.
The number one thing they can do to get her on a even keel is get her into some local group activities for older folks. Join a group doing some wholesome activity in the ‘jiu huo tuan’ community classes not the temple group looking for donations. Although even the temple groups can be good for socialising and travelling around.
I’m sorry to hear about the troubles your family is having. You are hardly alone and many of us face or worry about dealing with similar situations – not just in Taiwan but all over the Internet[1]
For one victim and his family, he actually made a movie[2] about their experience
We’re not limiting her freedom. She’ll still have her accounts and be able to talk to real friends and family. It will be monitored so that she doesn’t talk to any dodgy people again. This isn’t just about her, it’s also about protecting my daughter. I don’t even want to think about much less type out here what that could involve…
I get your point. And agree with it. Truly, I do. But understand my point was only about the issue of being opened up to legal issues. I’m not saying I agree with taiwans societal or legal frameworks all the time, however I feel it’s worth mentioning (over and over and over and over again!) and openly discussing these issues to avoid potential issues
Imagine what a professional scammer can do if they find out the person is “being manipulated”. The problems that can escalate are unfathomable.
Just putting it out there, as I have seen it more than a few times in real life. I mean no offense by it with you or your family…we are all strnagers talking aonumously after all.
I just don’t want others to get fucked by the same styles of fuckery that float around Taiwan so often. Taiwnas rampant crime has a real corelation to taiwans societal and educational norms. It’s easy pickings here for those without morals.
So wife went to her mom’s house today to try to get this settled. So far it seems positive. She got stressed out a bit but she seemed to have come to a realization that it was a scam. Wife went through her phone, deleted, blocked, changed settings etc, very tedious process. She will now check on her phone from time to time. One scammer was able to get $500 NT off of her via an Apple gift card. From what I was told, she didn’t even follow the instructions properly and uploaded it to her profile/feed instead of via PM to the scammer. And from what I can tell, her technological incompetence would make her infuriating to deal with for most scammers… A lot of work and when the time comes for the pay off, it gets botched. It would probably be like dealing with that one guy who scams scammers, pretends to be a doddering old person just to infuriate them. Now the scammers know she has people to look after her too. Hopefully they move on because she’s not the easiest target. I can’t imagine how desperate or unconscientious one would have to be to put in so much time for a lousy $500 NT.
