I am an EU citizen, APRC entrepreneur TW based, and I am scared AF by all those regulations that may stuck your money in a limbo.
Example: when receiving T/T from foreign customers (legit businesses to my business account) the bank calls me to ask what is that money for?
When I do triangle trade the bank asks me to provide the bill of lading (which is a doc provided by Customs that the goods are really shipped from a country to anothner) as proof once the shipment is done and the case is closed.
Eventually, I do have a LTD in HK as well and a couple of times the bank froze my account with no notice. I called the customer service and they told me itās standard procedure to check from time to time. Then they asked me for a few docs after 10 days, which I provided, and they un-froze the account. Not really sure why but probably because I donāt have an HK ID or residency there so I am more āunder the spotlightā.
I am wondering what will happen when I cash out some of my crypto to my personal account here in TW.
After all, I am doing all legit businesses, legal and trying to follow every regulation but I am afraid that in any of these checks banks used to do the docs provided would not be enough, what could happen?
I donāt like the idea of getting money stuck in a limbo.
as long as the documents are legit, within the pattern of volume pertaining to your profile, donāt come from strange countries which you didnāt disclose or from sanctioned entities, there should be only delays (for the random checks or RBA checks). No money should be lost.
Crypto is always shady, and any reputable institution always performs EDD on crypto related transactions since it is higher risk.
The absence of HKID for business banking purposes is not a blocker if you already have an account, the regular business reviews by FIs are mandated by HKMA and Banksā Association rules (or Customs and Excise dept regulations if the FI is an MSO fintech type of institution).
Moneys do get stuck, thatās the deal. checks take time and also depends on the responsiveness of the counterparty (like sender/receiver providing promptly the supporting docs related to the RFI) and with the AML/ATF rules getting stricter by the day, regulated institutions are always on the hedge to get their licence revoked or huge fines for even venial mistakes, so we take now extra care and, I know, it is frustrating. (I work for a regulated FI in HK).
For TW doesnāt help that crossborder transactions are heavily regulated and there is so much BS reporting that the FI needs to make FOR EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION that ofc delays happens. Then if you add the currency conversion, Central Banks rules further frustrates the process. I can see the point of this in āsafeguardingā the nation from an unregulated influx of Chinese funds (thatās it), but this hampers the general efficiency of international trade and also increases the costs. But thatās the view of the FSC and the CBC. They wonāt budge.
You begin with a:
Which is exactly why I am scared to see my funds stuck forever, not lost.
If banks decide that my proof is not enough, I am sure Iām not going to āloseā my money but Iāll never see them anymore, knowing where they are 
ā¦
I understand banks are scared by sanctions but I am more scared than them of not getting my cash.
Crypto self-custody is dangerous in a variety of aspects, but itās safer than unknown regulations that pop up monthly
I was planning to buy my apartment in TW with my crypto gains (yes, itās not a few thousand), but I guess Iāll go cash out somewhere else and then keep renting here.
I kinda see it as a lost chance for TW to be a real modern financial hub in Asia. Sadly
Thus why you shouldnāt put all your eggs in one basketā¦
absolutely
The bank transfer should have what the payment is for. If itās a regular customer paying and less than NT$500,000 they can auto put into account. Amounts over that government ( not the bank ) requires forms to be filled.
Nothing to be scared of just paper work. I bought my property in cash and wired funds from HSBC HK to my account in Taiwan. No issues.
Which is why many Taiwanese business people also have accounts overseas.
Iāve dealt with this many times in Taiwan.
For crypto I ended up opening accounts in a lot of banks and moving smaller amounts. This coincidentally also matched my DCA trading strategy. After using this strategy I have never had an account frozen, and have never had to provide documents.
well, here is someoneās opinion against someoneās else opinion. I am completely unimpressed by crypto as I do not see any economic value in it (Iām an economist by trade) and the lack of actual regulation and the inherent speculative nature of the thing actually scares me.
If you think that moneys in a completely volatile set of bits held at questionable institutions at best (unregulated fraudster at worst) are safer than in regulated institution, be my guest to go all crypto.
anyone does what they think itās best for themselves.
but, usually, here itās just slow and requires lots of paper and visit/calls to branch.
May I ask you the approx amount?
Because I believe that bankās staff can easily see balance, money in and out of any other tw bank very quick.
My account was frozen when I moved the proceeds of a house sale to a Taiwan bank. That was a few hundred thousand USD.
For crypto I was moving about 10-20K USD per week. But that was a few years ago now.
What makes you think that?
true for all, except for BTC.
Thatās pure cash although not a physical thing.
However, as a non-economist as myself, I see banks as questionable institutions as well, especially when you are a foreigner. They may comply with regulations, and they may operate in a regulated framework, but when they freeze your funds for any reason I feel my funds are not in good hands.
Iāve never felt so in my own country.
Itās not a TW issue. Itās because I am a foreigner here.
I believe Taiwaneses in my own country would face exactly the same problem as myself here in Asia
I went Mega Bank å
č±éč” with the idea of opening a personal bank account.
At that time I was just ARC holder.
The girl at the desk asked me a few standard questions like: who I am, why I want to open the account, where I live, etcā¦and asked to provide my passport.
After a quick talk she went back-office she came back to me after few minutes saying they couldnāt open an account to me because I already had 3 other personal accounts in TW.
Which it was true (Citi, First, Esun) but Iāve never told herā¦
So, this is what makes me think so
In Taiwan they have a system where they can see how many other bank accounts you have created, and how recently they were created. I know this because my wife (Taiwanese) was refused an account for this reason. Opening too many accounts in a short period. Apparently thatās what some criminals / scammers do.
However they canāt see your transactions with other banks.
itās RBA procedure, how long ago you opened those account before going to Mega? Why did you want to open at Mega if you have already 3 other accounts?
You need to make a good case, opening many accounts is a precursor of layering/placement (i.e. money laundering).
itās not cash, itās a security. Itās not a reliable store of value, looks more like a failed state currency with unpredictable value which canāt be relied upon and no one has authority to make it credible.
But anyways, you do you.
For sure if the money get frozen Iāll find a solution, but I donāt like the idea that that can happen.
Letās assume I want to withdraw a 30k USD gain from any big exchange.
I would first send USDT from abroad to Bitopro, then exchange USDT into TWD then send the amount to my local bank. Letās assume I do it 3 times, to have a lower amount
What if the local bank asm ke to prove the origin of this 300k TWD coming in from a crypto exchange? what do I give them? an excel file that can be easily be fabricated by anyone?
All banks here are part of JCIC
https://www.jcic.org.tw/main_en/
They can check how many credit cards one has and the limits, also which bank accounts one has.
Banks might deny a new account if you opened too many in a short time. This is to prevent money laundering by organized crime in Taiwan.
I might not be able to define ācashā as an economist because I am not.
What I meant is that with BTC on a cold wallet makes me feel I have cash in my walletā¦those paper notes.
I can travel wherever I want and spend my BTC even more easily than any banknote, at least for a small amount now, but itās a matter of time.
Yes, BTC is fluctuating, not like a failed state currency tho, but at least I am responsible for my own $$$.
We are Italian, I am sure you remember those people who got āscammedā by banks in the last 20 years.
well, thatās it because of Italyā¦ not necessarily because of banks. for the most part, reputable institutions are rather safe, but nothing is 100% safe.
anyways, you do you, no worries mate! Stammi bene