School-age girl wouldn't speak Chinese to me

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

{EDIT} The title of this thread was changed by the moderator to avoid making a blanket statement. Original title was They don’t want us to speak English. In reading some posts, perhaps I was being unfair to this kid. But she merely mirrored the same exact conversations that took place with High School Students, a Taxi Drivers, People on the street in general)

I’m at some art fair and contest with my kid. She’s competing and I’m wandering around. This school age girl walks up to me and says “Hello… ha ha ha ha” in a real silly tone of voice that you really get sick of after being here for over thirteen years.

I smile and answer politely “Hello” but in Chinese. I try not to speak English outside She does that stupid double take even though I’m like attached to three other children who look obviously mixed and a Taiwanese wife. Some Chinese is about to rub off somewhere. Ohh. I hate that double take… I also hate that clapping of the hands when they reallize I can understand and speak in Chinese. Heck, my accent and pronunciation is really pathetic… I should know much more than I do know!

She persists and asks me my name in English. I asked her name in Chinese. She answers “My name is Stephanie” I say in proper Chinese word order… Stephanie, hello.
I remarked in Chinese of course that her is very pretty.

She asked me in Chinese finally why don’t I speak English? I asked her what country are we in? She answered Taiwan. I asked her in Taiwan, what language we speak? She answered Chinese. And I told her that’s why I don’t want to speak English.

She starts to whine to her friend. … ohh I hate that pouty whine… But i guess it’s really popular because even grown up women do it in the TV Dramas here… She whine’s … He doesn’t speak English…

She had a change of tactic and decided to ask me in a nice way to speak a little English. So I relented and gave her a little English. I also introuced her to my Chidlren who mostly speak Chinese but understand and speak English when they need daddy to do something…

But as I feared… She was only really interested in saying the few stupid words or dialog in English then go back to her friends to giggle. Though my Chinese is still on the patheic side, I quite a few phrases under my belt. I could have had a decent conversation, perhaps teaching a few new words and even learning a few. But there was really no interest other than spitting a few English words to a foreigner.

Again…this in no way details my normal experience with friends and family but this situation happens quite often. I really don’t want to be like two out going teachers I’ve met when I first came here years ago. They would just say “Fuck You” to al who approach with that silly look.

What goes on in these locals’ head. When I was a boy… I was really annoying. I thought all places were romantic. I would listen to my shortwave radio of distant lands. Every time I ran into a “foreigner” i would attack them. Not really, I’d have a conversation with them. I’d try to suck their brain dry and learn about what it was like where they came from. These kids are not the least bit curious about what adventures we went through, languages we speak, foods we tried (unless it was Taiwanese Food) and all that…

And back to the orginal point… If I don’t say my few monkey English words and let them say theirs they will whine and just say I am no fun.

2

It’s not unusual for kids to act like kids.

3

Actually quite the opposite. By approaching you, she is curious about the Westerners and the English language no different than you, as a kid, were interested in “foreigners”.
Aside from maybe her teachers, she wants to test her English with someone else, or “suck your brain dry”.
And by you speaking Chinese to her (albeit a good practice for you), it hardly helps her improve her own English, or test her own understandings of “foreigners”.

Many times kids do what adults consider “stupid things” because they are still learning.
It reminds me of the time when I saw some 3rd graders take off their shoes and they would smell each other’s feet.
This of course is idiotic to adults, but it occurred to me that these 3rd graders probably never smelled a feet before and probably just accepted the words that feet smell bad from their parents.
But what exactly is “bad smell”, those 3rd graders probably did not have a reference point to compare with, so they had to experience it first-hand to understand.

But with you being the adult, you should be the one with more patience and understanding, and not let this agitate you.

4

She probably loves English. She was probably thrilled to have the chance to try it out with a real foreigner.

I couldn’t count how many unsuspecting Asians I accosted during my first year of Chinese class in the US. :blush:

5

I think your mistake was not talking directly to her. In all seriousness, you should have told her very seriously and teacher-like that she should speak Chinese with you. Kids react well to being told what to do. “Stop whining. If you want to talk to me, speak Chinese. If you do not speak Chinese, we will not have a conversation. Understand?” (And that last “understand” is very important. She will answer – without even thinking – in affirmation.)

6

This was an edit to my original post… .
{EDIT} The title of this thread was changed by the moderator to avoid making a blanket statement. Original title was They don’t want us to speak English. In reading some posts, perhaps I was being unfair to this kid. But she merely mirrored the same exact conversations that took place with High School Students, a Taxi Drivers, People on the street in general)

More examples… a man runs practically across the street to be helpful something. But as soon as I say hello in Chinese and try to converse, he looses interest…

Once I was in McDonald’s shouting special orders, you know extra sauce, no sauce… a women whose pronunciation led me to believe she could speak English said to me… “Why don’t you just speak English?”

I answered, “I have a lot of special orders, I don’t think they will understand”.
Women: Nervous smile … says nothing… eyes blink blink
Me in Chinese: You don’t understand me, right?
(There were no problem with my order, they understood my Chinese well enough… )

Perhaps I am being unfair to the kid. I must say, children are the most helpful when it comes to learning Chinese. Anyone here long enough knows that many Chinese people just want to practice their English and not just communicate. Or sometimes… they just want to say a few silly English words and are not really interested in learning or listening.

7

[quote=“Taiwan_Student”] Though my Chinese is still on the pathetic side [/quote].

This is the main problem. Once your Mandarin is not on the pathetic side you won’t have this problem anymore. Go take some classes.

[/quote]

[quote]More examples… a man runs practically across the street to be helpful something. But as soon as I say hello in Chinese and try to converse, he looses interest…
[/quote]

Well, you speak Mandarin, so you probably don’t really need any help.

[quote]Once I was in McDonald’s shouting special orders, you know extra sauce, no sauce… a women whose pronunciation led me to believe she could speak English said to me… “Why don’t you just speak English?”

I answered, “I have a lot of special orders, I don’t think they will understand”.
Women: Nervous smile … says nothing… eyes blink blink
Me in Chinese: You don’t understand me, right?
(There were no problem with my order, they understood my Chinese well enough… )[/quote]

She obviously thought it would be easier to communicate with you in English. I would guess that she is probably right but too polite to tell you that your Mandarin is hard to understand if not incomprehensible.

Most people in Taiwan are Taiwanese. I ran into a very nice family in Fenqihu the other day who explained with some effort that I should try the agar jelly ice (aiyubing), the specialty of the area. They were having a great time on a family outing and I saw no harm in answering their questions about where I’m from etc. Finally, I agreed that I would try one, and ordered a medium cup less ice with cane sugar in Mandarin. They laughed, I laughed. We then continued the conversation in Mandarin for a few minutes and they were very amused by their mistaken assumption that I couldn’t speak Mandarin.Then we all went on enjoying our day without any angst about ‘them’ not wanting to speak Mandarin or forcing me so speak English.

It’s just not that hard.

8

All seems a bit egocentric to me. Why is it about you? Because to me these things are not about me. I get people wanting to speak English to me of all ages, I admire them, it takes guts to do it. So I talk for as much as I can, I might be busy and have to say bye. I guess it might change over time but I can’t see it really, as long as people are polite. They don’t know if you have been here five minutes or decades, you just stepped into their world. You play your part in the scene, but the play is not yours. Job done. Why should it be annoying even after 13 years? Show a little compassion. It might be that your even more approachable because of your family? How does it compare to being on your own, do you get more attention on your own or less?

9

It was boring to me after 1 year let alone 10 years, I generally ignore this kind of thing unless the person can speak English or is a Lao touzi and then you can genuinely make their day. I find a fair few of the crazie like to yammer some English at me too.
I got over it a long time ago but unfortunately most Taiwanese conversations now start by asking me if we speak english to my son or not or is he mixed when talking to wife. Boring. She lies to them sometimes and they get pissed off but what do they expect , it’s none of their business. Kids are kids though, they all have their own personality , if the parents aren’t around that means they have a genuine curiosity which can be a good thing and in that case I might humor them a little.

10

Growing up eurasian in Taipei I used to get asked whenever i went into a store, took a taxi or had any contact with any taiwanese about my family background. It was really tedious and I got tired of that. I would stop at a redlight on my scoot and a taxi driver would roll down the window and ask me about myself. Boring for sure. But I was nice to them although i really wished they would leave me alone.

I think I had a minor epiphany because I thought about it and thought that those who asked me about me were very pleased to meet me and were excited about meeting me. They harbored no ill will. They may only ever see me or talk to me once in their whole lives so why not let them have a good memory of it?

Whereas I will get asked the same questions dozens of times a day, that one person will only ask me once. Let them remember me in a good way.

You couldve let that young lady gone away with a very positive experience of meeting a foreigner. But you were like Scrooge bout it and ruined it for her.

11

When your Mandarin starts to sound local, you’ll be speaking in English to everyone that comes up to you. It’s the quickest way to get rid of them. If you can speak Chinese, they want to be BFF.

And at least you’re a guy. I’ll go walking in say, a school fair, and if I’m not with my SO there’ll almost always be a creepy 40 year old dude who’ll walk past once, look at me, turn around and walk past again, turn around and walk past AGAIN and try to catch my eye (I usually spot them on the first run, so I try and avoid them). I went to a Carrefour last week and as I walked in there was an older guy coming out and giving me the same kind of look, I nodded in greeting (had earphones on, so NO idea what he was saying) and in I went. Did my shopping, as I’m looking for a register… SAME OLD GUY. Directs me to a register (Chinese). I say thank you. After I finish up and am walking out… SAME OLD GUY was standing at the exit. I thanked him again, and said ‘bye’ as I put my earphones on. Had this horrible feeling that I was being followed and refused to look around, when I got to my scooter… SAME F***ING OLD GUY IS THERE. I put my stuff away and get out my helmet while he talks to me. Where are you from? How long have you been here? What are you doing here? Be careful on the road, it’s wet! and…that was it.

Turned out he was harmless, just really, really creepy.

12

I can understand your frustration as i am sure many of your fellow expats can. But for me, THESE kids get a pass. The adults, not so much. I mean, look at it this way. This child was outgoing enough to walk up to a complete stranger and speak english! I say that is pretty good. I never would have done the same would the roles have been reversed. I mean we really have far more opportunity here to speak chinese than they do to speak english anyways, and so what if the kid says a couple words/phrases and runs away laughing. I think the fact that the kid is laughing is great! I see far too many sad faces lugging around oversized backpacks full of books at all hours of the day and night. Something that could make their day a little more interesting is a good thing.

13

This.

Kids are kids, I like kids so I wouldn’t be bothered at all.

The adults on the other hand can be a different matter. In the end I just try my best to use Chinese as much as I can to answer any English question. Depending on how the person is i will mention that I prefer speaking in Chinese

The problem sometimes that I have in Shanghai is a situation like this:

10 Chinese people, 3 Koreans, 2 Westerners,

Everyone can speak Chinese except for one of the Westerners.

Thus, by default everyone has to speak English because we don’t want to leave that one person out. It doesn’t matter if 3 or 4 of the Chinese people can’t speak English well, it’s their responsibility to learn it and be able to talk in English in these settings.

I think English is a fantastic language and holds a lot of value. But I wish that people would speak to me in the language of the country like they do when I’m in any country except Chinese-speaking ones. It would mean a lot more to me to be spoken in the local language and try to include me in the local culture than to constantly have them practice their English. If I mention that I prefer to speak in Chinese people will inform me that you practice Chinese I practice English or my English is just a lot better so why waste our time.

14

You are all right a bit… I really have to sit down and do some soul searching…

Kids are Kids that is true…
Just yesterday I had a real incident that caused me to switch tables with my kids and I. It was really too hot for outdoor activities. We went to a McDonald’s with a really huge play area to let the kids burn off some steam. There were a rude group of what I think were High School Students or perhaps junior HS sudents openly mimicking us and making fun of the kids an myself. I tried to be friendly and make peace but they would not hear of it.

There are a lot of good people here, kids included. But when similar situations occur I get disenchanted…
How many of you had your kids hit, just for being a foreigner, even if you have never left Taiwan.
Have adults cross the line and grab your nose because it means good luck and or being body slammed by teenagers in a seven eleven while you were trying to mind your own business.
I guess many of you… You just know when to forgive and forget better…

These little incidents add up a bit… So it does put me in the scrooge mood. Yes, I must try to not lump all that together…
I have felt sorry about given people the scrooge experience… On the whole within my community I do just fine. People are friendly and helpful. The local shops actually think I know my Chinese numbers well enough and now start throwing Taiwanese at me. That is what a like. A challenge and acceptance.

15

[quote]
Have adults cross the line and grab your nose because it means good luck and or being body slammed by teenagers in a seven eleven while you were trying to mind your own business. [/quote]
What? The FUCK? Are you serious? 25 years. Never ONCE has anyone body slammed me or grabbed my nose! Anywhere in Taiwan :noway:

16

What?! Those sort of things mean it’s time to flip the fuck you switch. No one should be treated in this manner. I’ve never been treated in this manner and if someone even thinks about that - I flip the FUCK YOU switch. I’m a happy guy until that sort of shit happens. However, those actions are of the individual not the Taiwanese. You could get treated like that in my hometown (UK) on a Saturday just as easily.

Today I went swimming and as always I speak to at least two or three people. They are friendly, yes they ask those question you all say are boring. I don’t care, I like it they talk to me at all, I find that is acceptance.

17

Maybe six months ago… I’m taking the kids to Kaohsiung for one reason or another. We stop at 7-11. There are these big kids, looking like tweedle dee and tweedle dum. They are getting in my way saying Hurro like Scooby Doo. I really was not in the mood. The twins are whining. We don’t have much time I want them to just decide on something, then they need to go to the bathroom. The elder daughter is doing her thing too. Tweedle Dee and Dum are hovering around.
I observe that they are stuck there because their mother is working there…
I am reading the ingrediants of my Chips trying to find out if there is any stelth seafood in it when Tweedle Dee walks fast and bumps me. I make it a point to stand in sight and out of people’s way. Man that hurt. I marched the kids to their mother who was having a tea break at one of the tables. The kids denied it, then said it was an accident. I said no way. Then I just turned bought my stuff and walked out I was going to post the 7-11 and the time of day on this site but I really don’t want to cost anyone his or her job.

Nose thing… many years ago. Yes, I whined on this forum then too. I was sitting in the office of slave cram school I worked at. A parent talked about my nose and reached for it. He touched the tip before I raised my hand and yelled, what are you doing?

The mealy mouthed boss told me he just wanted to touch my nose for luck. Later alone the boss told me that next time a customer wants do to something like that, I should not protest.

So these things do add up after a while. I have a very good memory and similiar incidents call back similliar feelings. I have to realize that things have changed. Heck, I have changed And not all people are ass holes. And not be such a scrooge.

18

Toughen the f&@k up dude. Teenagers are idiots but they usually know when to back down when you run into them full tilt when reaching for a packet of primrose. Hehe.
Seriously many share the frustration but just move onwards , don’t let it bring you down, it’s only castles burning, find someone who’s turning and you will come around.

19

Ah mate. I feel for you. Just sounds like pissy things.

You have the honesty to say your whining - fair play - we all like a moan.

Life can be a fucker sometimes. Keep that glass half full. :thumbsup:

20

Are you really little?

People look at me as though they are afraid much of the time. I have to say “nihao/liho” and nod my head all the time…then they perk up and smile.

Maybe cus I am kind big, have a shaved head, goatee, large tattoo and earrings…but I doubt any Taiwanese person would ever body slam me (ha…itd probably knock the breath out of his body) or grab my nose.