Scooter guilty! Miss Piggy in Tears!

What lies? All I see here is some guy at National Review writing up some opinion spin.

Sorry, but with traitors selling out our intelligence officers who put their lives on the line, I just don’t see justifying a lesser interpretation really is applicable. Once we allow people to make a call on what information they pass on to conservative columnists for widespread publication, there’s no telling what they’ll feel justified in doing.

Libby’s been nailed for sure with convictions on 4 of 5 charges related to his smoke-and-mirrors game to protect others. With further investigation we might know what happened. The Congressional inquiry has already nailed down the head of security as stating that the proper investigation procedures were not followed in this case. Let’s start pulling at the threads and find where it takes us. I’m in favor of a full investigation that takes this wherever it goes, aren’t you?

The DOJ is in Bush’s hands … why doesn’t Bush prosecute him? Oh, right… because in Alberto Gonzales’ world it’s a firing offense not to toe Rove’s line.

MFGR:

Let me ask you this?

Do you believe that there was a White House plot to out Plame? and if so, why would Armitage an anti-war member of the administration willingly participate? or was he manipulated into outing Plame? and would it be a conspiracy of the White House to discuss how Wilson got sent to Niger (when he was claiming the Vice President’s office had sent him)? and in this context, would it be a crime for top White House officials to discuss Plame? among themselves of course not outing her?

And this DOJ business does not make sense. The effort to find out who had outed a CIA operative had begun and in fact it netted Libby for obstruction of justice. Why would Fitzgerald, however, choose NOT to prosecute Armitage, the actual source of the leak? Would it be up to the DOJ to stop him? And why wouldn’t Fitzgerald not choose to prosecute Rove? Fleischer? any of the reporters involved in the reporting of the leak? Do you think that it is up to the DOJ to decide this? or can the DOJ stop Fitzgerald from investigating and/or prosecuting? If so, then why didn’t Bush ask the DOJ to stop Fitzgerald from investigating Libby? You are talking out of your ass.

I think that there was a White House effort to take action against Wilson after he criticized the administration. Hurting Plame seems to have been part of an effort to hurt Wilson from a direction that he might not have expected. I don’t think most patriotic Americans would expect a presidential administration to stoop so low as to expose a serving covert CIA officer. Too bad that they did this.

Can’t help you as to any personal motivations of the inner Bush sanctum. It would appear that there were a lot of internal politics that might take a while to sort out. If investigators had been allowed to investigate appropriately, then we might know a lot more. Perhaps Armitage was cooperating in order to get back influence, or perhaps the views that people have towards Armitage are either incorrect or improperly nuanced. In any case, I have no personal knowledge of what goes on inside Armitage’s head.

Again, further investigation would be good… if only the Bushies had allowed it.

Internally? Of course not. But that’s not what’s at issue here. We’re concerned about the administration having Libby, Fleischer, Armitage, Rove and others run about talking up Plame with the press. If the Vice President’s office sent him or didn’t send him, that’s something that does not require outing a covert CIA intelligence officer to straighten out. For your future reference, if the Vice President’s office needs to clarify anything internally or externally, it might be good if they could do so without exposing intelligence officers, their covers and their sources to risks as they did with Plame.

Internally? Almost certainly not. Again, that’s not what the concern is about.

Well, that’s the fault of Alberto G. and his puppetmaster Rove.

Yes, and perjury and for lying to a federal agent.

I recommend you ask Fitzgerald.

Stop Fitzgerald? Well, since Alberto G. seems determined to ensure that no Republicans are prosecuted, even going so far as to fire several excellent prosecutors for failure to interpret their job as “protecting corrupt Republicans” or “persecuting Democrats”, my guess is that the DOJ has interfered actively with the handling of this case.

Perhaps Fitzgerald wasn’t fired because he went for the fall guy, Libby. Hard to say. However, I think that more investigation would be needed.

Fitzgerald showed up on one of the emails regarding the lists of prosecutors as one who had ‘not distinguished themselves’ in demonstrated loyalty to the Bush regime. Perhaps he was determined to show his “loyalty” by only going after Libby instead of the big boys. As to the DOJ’s ability to limit Fitzgerald that involves both what they do with him and his caseload as well as his personal susceptibility to threats from his bosses.

[quote=“fred smith”]If so, then why didn’t Bush ask the DOJ to stop Fitzgerald from investigating Libby?

You’ll have to ask Bush.

Perhaps that’s just the washback smell from when you talk too close to the phone mouthpiece. In your loonytunes fantasyworld, Libby wasn’t guilty (but he was convicted), and committed “no crime” (but he did), Plame wasn’t a covert officer (but she was), and if Plame was a covert officer there are several grades of covert officer (there aren’t), and Plame couldn’t possibly be covert because you know all about what happens when a covert officer dates or marries a former ambassador (you didn’t), and so on and so on.

So you cannot tell me why Fitzgerald would refuse to investigate or prosecute any of those other individuals and you are basically admitting that you are talking out of your ass with regard to any ability that Gonzalez had or has to stop Fitzgerald from doing so. Okay. Just wanted to be clear on that.

Oh my, you’re getting all pissy just because I admit the limits of my knowledge. I’m not inside Fitzgerald’s head, so I can’t do that, can I? Fitzgerald’s press conference regarding the indictment of Libby made it quite clear that he’s not commenting on the people he hasn’t indicted.

Meanwhile, you scoot about this thread making like you “know” Plame isn’t covert, “know” what happens when a CIA intelligence officer dates or marries a former ambassador, “know” that Libby committed no crime. What you don’t know could fill a book. It would be nice if once in a while you could also admit what you don’t know. Personally, I don’t claim to know what goes on inside Fitzgerald’s head, but if that’s “talking out my ass” in your Bizarro World, then at least I can tell where you’re coming from:

Bizarro World? I have to give it to you. You really do come up with the goods in the entertainment department. You should be a standup comedian. Seriously! Kudos!

Now, now, I can assure you that when we find out what Plame actually did or did not do that you will find that my assessment is more correct than not. Think about it logically and rationally. A CIA operative married to a high-profile American government official. She’s even listed in Who’s Who for Christ’s sake as Valerie Plame wife of US Ambassador Joe Wilson. Now, unless she is using another code name in her “covert status” as “key weapons proliferation expert” (why have you stopped quoting that tagline?) and what would be the big deal if she were then in outing “Valerie Plame,” then she ain’t working on the real tough cases where people’s lives are at stake. You do see that don’t you?

I think that you do, but anyway, I still relish the repartee and quick-witted responses nonetheless so I trust that you will pretend (for the amusement of all of us) that you do not. Pretty please…

But not as “Valerie Plame, covert CIA operative” and that makes all the difference in the world. You see, it’s not like to be “covert” she has to personally disappear off the face of the earth, erase her fingerprints, fabricate a tragic death in a shirtwaist factory fire to enable her to assume a new identity based around a new name, multiple new names, or possibly even just a number. This is not some sort of “Bourne Identity” novel in which the secret strapped within a conundrum with a big puzzle piece jammed in its mouth – the secret is not the mere existence of a human being named Valerie Plame but rather the tying of an individual to their position in the CIA.

Once that happened, it exposed her, her cover, others who used that cover, others who met with her under that cover, and so on.

Does it? I mean I know the CIA is a bunch of dimwitted butt munches but really? Ya think that no one in the dirty business of “key weapons proliferation experts” would ever take the time to run a security check on someone that they were doing business with, even casually? Really?

Oh, now suddenly YOU are the expert on how covert operatives are placed? how they function?

haha. And you would “know” this how exactly?

Sure. That sounds plausible. I sincerely doubt that she or anyone else she was working with were endangered. But let’s say that they are? Who’s more to blame? Joe Wilson (a simple check would indicate that they ARE married) writes to a major news publication using his own name and discussing a secret CIA trip that he took to Niger on a fact-finding mission and no one in serious intelligence is going to think to look at his wife (and anyone who was worth their salt in intelligence) would have established that Valerie Plame was married to Joseph Wilson.

By the way, why have you stopped calling her a “key weapons proliferation expert?” Do you have a cartoon to go with that?

Does it? I mean I know the CIA is a bunch of dimwitted butt munches but really? Ya think that no one in the dirty business of “key weapons proliferation experts” would ever take the time to run a security check on someone that they were doing business with, even casually? Really?[/quote]

Hey, you’re the one talking about her being named in Wilson’s “Who’s Who” entry as his wife. If somebody wanted to go to the difficult task of personally and independently identiifying her as a CIA officer that’s a very different matter. You still haven’t convinced me that there is any good reason for the White House officials to “out” our serving intelligence officers.

Oh, now suddenly YOU are the expert on how covert operatives are placed? how they function?[/quote]

Well, on that, you just have to look at the definition of “covert”. There are legal definitions that have been discussed within thsi thread.

haha. And you would “know” this how exactly?[/quote]

Again, if you would be willing to read a bit, that would be helpful.

Sure. That sounds plausible. I sincerely doubt that she or anyone else she was working with were endangered. But let’s say that they are? Who’s more to blame? Joe Wilson (a simple check would indicate that they ARE married) writes to a major news publication using his own name and discussing a secret CIA trip that he took to Niger on a fact-finding mission and no one in serious intelligence is going to think to look at his wife (and anyone who was worth their salt in intelligence) would have established that Valerie Plame was married to Joseph Wilson.[/quote]

I blame anyone who told the press or other persons without security clearances about her being a CIA intelligence officer.

She is, but this is the thread on Libby … who is guilty, guilty, guilty.

Fred, what we’re you doing in DC a week ago? Are you working undercover for the executive branch you’re so protective of?

Why are you trying to “out” me? And what makes you think that I was in DC last week?

hahahahahahah

Why are you trying to “out” me? And what makes you think that I was in DC last week?

hahahahahahah[/quote]

More like two weeks ago now. I’m just curious because the only reason to be in Washington unless you have family there is some sort of government business. Are you a spy? A mole?

All hail the mole.

More on the subject… from one of the key players involved…

[quote]‘Covert’ Confusion at the CIA

By Robert D. Novak
Thursday, April 12, 2007; A27

Seated at the Washington Gridiron Club dinner on March 31, I was interrupted by a man crouching at my feet and dressed Air Force formal with the four stars of a full general. It was CIA Director Michael Hayden, and he complained to me profanely that he was misrepresented in my March 22 column on the Valerie Plame Wilson case. Denying that he favors Democrats, Hayden indicated that he had not authorized Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman to say Mrs. Wilson had been a “covert” CIA employee, as Waxman claimed, but only that she was “undercover.” Keeping busy at a Gridiron evening supposedly devoted to frivolity, Hayden made similar points to Rep. Peter Hoekstra, the House intelligence committee’s ranking Republican; Republican lawyer Victoria Toensing, an expert in national security law; and White House counsel Fred Fielding. Yet, 10 days later, the CIA and its director asserted to me that the wife of Bush critic Joseph Wilson indeed had been “covert.” The designation could strengthen erroneous claims that she came under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

Nobody will ever be prosecuted under the act for revealing that Mrs. Wilson worked for the CIA. But Hayden has raised Republican suspicions that he is angling to become intelligence czar – director of national intelligence – under a Democratic president. While Hayden proclaims himself free of politics, his handling of the Plame case is puzzling. Waxman, as chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, sought to breathe political life into the affair with a March 16 hearing featuring Mrs. Wilson. Waxman made news by declaring that Hayden “told me personally . . . that if I said she was a covert agent, it wouldn’t be an incorrect statement.” I reported that this revelation stunned Hoekstra, who as intelligence committee chairman spent years unsuccessfully seeking word on Mrs. Wilson’s status from the CIA.

At the Gridiron, Hayden told me he referred to Mrs. Wilson only as “undercover.” He apparently said the same thing to Toensing, who testified as a Republican-requested witness at the March 16 hearing. On April 4, she wrote Hayden that in three Gridiron conversations “in front of different witnesses you denied most emphatically, that you had ever told” Waxman "that Valerie Plame was ‘covert.’ You stated you had told Waxman he could use the term ‘undercover’ but ‘never’ the term ‘covert.’ " That contradiction concerned Toensing, a former Senate staffer who helped draft the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

At the hearing, Waxman menacingly challenged Toensing’s sworn testimony that Mrs. Wilson was not “covert” under the act. Accordingly, she asked Hayden to inform Waxman that "you never approved of his using the term ‘covert.’ " The confusion deepened when I obtained Waxman’s talking points for the hearing. The draft typed after the Hayden-Waxman conversation said, “Ms. Wilson had a career as an undercover agent of the CIA.” This was crossed out, the handwritten change saying she “was a covert employee of the CIA.”

Who had made this questionable but important change? Hayden told me Tuesday that the talking points were edited by a CIA lawyer after conferring with Waxman’s staff. “I am completely comfortable with that,” the general assured me. He added that he now sees no difference between “covert” and “undercover” – an astounding statement considering that the criminal statute refers only to “covert” employees. Mark Mansfield, Hayden’s public affairs officer, e-mailed me next: “At CIA, you are either a covert or an overt employee. Ms. Wilson was a covert employee.” That also ignores the legal requirements of the intelligence identities law. The CIA gave me a lot more than either Toensing or Hoekstra received.

Toensing’s letter to Hayden has gone unanswered. On March 21, Hoekstra again asked the CIA to define Mrs. Wilson’s status. A written reply April 5 from Christopher J. Walker, the agency’s director of congressional affairs, said only that "it is taking longer than expected" to reply because of “the considerable legal complexity required for this tasking.” Hayden was brought into the CIA as an intelligence professional when President Bush fired Porter Goss, who had retired from Congress to go to Langley at the president’s request. Goss thought he had a mandate to clean up an agency whose senior officials delivered private anti-Bush briefings during the 2004 campaign. The confusion over Valerie Plame’s status suggests the CIA gave Waxman what he wanted, even if the director of central intelligence seemed confused.

© 2007 Creators Syndicate Inc.[/quote]

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 11_pf.html

30 months for a traitor? Seems like a sweet deal for Libby.

That will be appealed. Regardless he will be pardoned. Why isn’t Sandy Berger being investigated for doing something far more serious? and before the litany of woes and weeping starts regarding a potential Bush pardon for Libby, be warned that any such shrieks will generate a return to the 400 pardons made by the Clintons upon leaving the White House. I am sure that no one wants to take another look at those again except maybe Spook because well Marc Rich was you know…

Presidential aides HR Haldeman and John Erlichman both did time for perjury, did they not? That was in simpler times though before religious extremism rotted the soul of the Republican Party.

Bushie just wanted to make him sweat.

[quote]Bush Commutes ‘Scooter’ Libby Sentence
President Bush commuted the prison sentence of former White House aide I. Lewis ‘‘Scooter’’ Libby on Monday, according to news reports.

Bush’s move came after a federal appeals panel in Washington, D.C., earlier Monday ruled that Libby had to begin serving a 2 1/2-year prison term. Libby was convicted in March for lying and obstructing the investigation into the 2003 leak of the identity of Valerie Plame, a CIA operative, The New York Times reported on its Web site[/quote]

HG

Not surprising, but still disappointing. So much for accountability.

“If there’s a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is,” Bush told reporters at an impromptu news conference during a fund-raising stop in Chicago, Illinois. “If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of.”
– CNN, Feb 11, 2004